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Attachments: Who is the primary driver of option trades?
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Who is the primary driver of option trades?

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  • Post #21
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  • Edited at 7:14am Jan 23, 2020 6:55am | Edited at 7:14am
  •  simnz
  • Joined Nov 2015 | Status: Member | 1,453 Posts
Quoting Ef5
Disliked
{quote} Thanks for the offer simnz, that's very generous of you. I'm pretty well set as-is, but I'd be happy to do a little coding to help other traders out. The tool you proposed sounds interesting, but how would it work? Which OTM options would you look at? All of them or just ones that are say, >1 standard deviation from the current price? Unfortunately I'm no longer an IB client. I had to move everything out from IB back in October due to a compliance issue with my wife's work. Along the same lines, my trading is monitored now and I have some...
Ignored
I am not sure if you can import future options chains into R from Yahoo. Instead of encouraging more trading CME focuses on selling data and puts so many restrictions on the use of data.

IB does not charge for live CME price feed as long as any one of the two accounts is being used. Live trading or Paper Trading. I can give access to one of my trading accounts paper account, which I don't use so often so that you can have an access to the live price data feed and API use for analysis purpose only.

Open Interest of Futures is equally important.

Attached Image


The key to options trading is to acquire an understanding of not only the volume but also the Open Interest. It does not indicate who is a buyer or seller.
To make life easier, I assume unless there is no seller there can't be a buyer. So I focus only on what sellers of options are doing.

Are they entering the market? Which strike price levels? and why?
Are they quitting the market? which strike price level? and why?
Basically, I treat the Call Strike levels where Open Interest contracts are parked as resistance levels since the sellers think the market WILL NOT cross their chosen levels.
We can devise four resistance levels based on the concentration of CALL Open Interest at each strike price.

Similarly, we can build four levels of support taking Put Open Interest numbers in account where the sellers think the Price will not drop.

Finally, there will be a zone of support and resistance hugging the ATM line.

These Resistance (call) and Support (put) levels keep changing dynamically as the price moves up and down.

COT data is of no help in trading of short-dated options like Weeklies. It is only the Open Interest that helps determine the trend of the market.
A graph like below will be very helpful. Brokers use payoff diagrams (technical stuff) and a retail trader can't make much use of them.

Four Strike Prices drawn on both sides of ATM is good enough to get a bird's eye view of the trend.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge

Name: Open Interest bar graphs calls and puts S  R.jpg
Size: 44 KB


Reference material:

I am quoting a few excerpts from a classical book "VOLUME AND OPEN INTEREST Classic Trading Strategies for 24-hour Markets" by KENNETH H. SHALEEN

SIGNIFICANCE OF VOLUME

Volume is a measure of urgency. It is the result of the need for traders and investors to "do something," and nothing creates more urgency in a market than a losing position. Since any useful chart analysis determines what the losers are
doing, the technician will want to monitor this sense of urgency (i.e. , volume), thereby assessing the health and strength of the prevailing price trend (up, down, or sideways).

SIGNIFICANCE OF OPEN INTEREST

Attached Image


For every profit dollar in futures trading there must be a loss dollar. Open interest
is a reflection of this very important concept. If a futures trader makes a correct
market judgment, where do the funds come from to pay off his or her winning position?
The funds come from the loser. This may sound harsh, but it is a fact of
life in every futures market. A technician should be very interested in what the
losers are doing. The change in open interest is the key to this puzzle.

The analysis of open interest changes is important for at least three reasons:

Open Interest Provides FueI to Sustain a Price Move
The analogy of fuel to the market is like that of fuel to a fire. If the fuels removed
from a fire, the fire will go out. If fuel is removed from a price trend, the trend will
change. Fuel in a futures market is provided by the losing positions. When open
interest declines, fuel is being removed and the prevailing price trend is running
on borrowed time. For a healthy, strong price trend (either up or down) to continue, open interest ideally should increase, or at least not decline. This is so important a concept that remembering the word fuel as a surrogate for open interest will place a trader ahead of 80 percent of all futures traders worldwide!

Open Interest Indicates the Existence of a Difference of Opinion
There is nothing that creates a market more than a difference of opinion. This is
reflected in a willingness to take an open position and hence an increase in open
interest.
Economists state that any marketplace searches for an equilibrium price
the intersection of the supply and demand curve at a price that clears the market.
What if a futures market was at the theoretical equilibrium and the entire dealing
world knew it? What would be the level of open interest? Zero. There would be
no need for hedgers to shift risk or speculators to put their hard-earned money on
the line to outguess the market direction. But no one knows where equilibrium is;
it is always shifting. Open interest measures the difference of opinion and, more
importantly, how it is changing.
For instance, a borrower of funds tied to a floating interest rate (potential
short hedger) knows that if rates rise, financial difficulty awaits in the form of
higher costs. The borrower does not know which way rates are going, but wants
to shift the risk of increasing rates. A speculator may think the market can be out
smarted and decides rates are going down. Both the borrower and speculator have
a willingness to put on an open position.
Increasing open interest is the signal that profits will be available (from the
loser) as fundamental supply-and-demand factors move interest rates toward a
new equilibrium. What is important to understand is that the difference of opinion creates a market that can sustain a significant price move.

Open Interest Determines If the Losers are Being RepIaced
Technicians do not care if a losing position is being financed by meeting margin
calls and throwing more money at the market, or if a loser steps aside and new
blood comes in to take the loser's place. What matters is that the funds are being
posted at the clearinghouse. The losers are necessary to pay off the traders with
the correct market judgment. When the losers decide that they " do n' t want to play
the game "anymore" and leave the market, open interest will decline. Obviously the losers pay the price for their misjudgment, but what is of importance to the technician is that declining open interest means the prevailing price trend has become very unhealthy.
Practice makes a person perfect
Golden 88 Pips Today: na
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  • Post #22
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  • Jan 23, 2020 4:37pm Jan 23, 2020 4:37pm
  •  EF5
  • Joined Oct 2013 | Status: Member | 880 Posts
Quoting simnz
Disliked
{quote} I am not sure if you can import future options chains into R from Yahoo. Instead of encouraging more trading CME focuses on selling data and puts so many restrictions on the use of data. IB does not charge for live CME price feed as long as any one of the two accounts is being used. Live trading or Paper Trading. I can give access to one of my trading accounts paper account, which I don't use so often so that you can have an access to the live price data feed and API use for analysis purpose only.
Ignored
You're right, Yahoo probably doesn't have Futures Options chains. I can probably get that from one of my brokers or possibly from a source like Quandl.

Quoting simnz
Disliked
SIGNIFICANCE OF OPEN INTEREST {image}
Ignored
Hmm, I think that graphic is a little off. Wouldn't change in implied volatility be more accurate than change in price? They're sort of the same thing, but if you factor in theta and also consider the underlying price movement then price becomes an unreliable figure. I could probably make an indicator comparing change in open interest to change in implied volatility and it sounds like an interesting idea. I haven't tried to pull options data before in R so I'll have to see how the data looks before I can make any promises.
Self-sufficiency is the greatest of all wealth. - Epicurus
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  • Post #23
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  • Jan 24, 2020 12:58am Jan 24, 2020 12:58am
  •  simnz
  • Joined Nov 2015 | Status: Member | 1,453 Posts
Quoting Ef5
Disliked
{quote} You're right, Yahoo probably doesn't have Futures Options chains. I can probably get that from one of my brokers or possibly from a source like Quandl. {quote} Hmm, I think that graphic is a little off. Wouldn't change in implied volatility be more accurate than change in price? They're sort of the same thing, but if you factor in theta and also consider the underlying price movement then price becomes an unreliable figure. I could probably make an indicator comparing change in open interest to change in implied volatility and it sounds...
Ignored
I was a financial journalist (ex-WSJ) long back and I try to simplify concepts or technical terms. And always look for simple solutions. During last 35 years I have stuck to trading only one or two legs of options. Buy Call or Put (with no deep pockets) Sell Call or Put (with deep pockets), Sell or buy both Call or Puts by way of spread or Sell or Buy strangles or straddles. No butterfly, iron condor or any of similar strategies. Always focusing on sharpening my news sense and not for defined limited returns.

I have practised first six of strategies as shown in the attached chart. And have never touched other strategies so far.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge

Name: 35 option strategies chart.png
Size: 304 KB


You are right change in implied volatility is another important factor though I am not sure whether price becomes an unreliable factor because I find it easier to use Price Action if I were to use Support and Resistance setup for trading.

My interest in exploring Open Interest as support and resistance tool arose recently in October when I wanted to trade newly-introduced Weekly HSI options trading. I could see immense scope for trading both selling (which needs patience and money management skills) and Buying (because of my news sense skills) opportunities every week.

For support and resistance trading, you have to identify two sides who hold opposite views.

In auction market terms you can call it demand and supply.

In terms of measuring sentiments, you can call it overbought or oversold.

I am a short-term trader . I completely rely on price action and the formations and trends extrapolated from it to make trading decisions. Price action helps confirm trends or trend reversals.

I have a choice of selecting two sides who hold opposite views.

1. They could be buyers and sellers. But in options, it is not easy for me to identify who is a seller and who is a buyer. In options, contracts keep changing hands and that is why variations to Open Interest and daily volume of transactions gives some idea of what is happening but no inkling of whether buyers are getting in, or out or staying put.

2. Writers (sellers of) Calls and Puts: I can easily identify them based on the additions or deletions to Open Interest number on a daily basis plus whether there is a significant change in the number of Cumulative Options as well as Futures .

The buyers and sellers have taken into account Theta and IV factors before entering the field.

I find it convenient to look for big numbers of Call option sellers as holding view that the market will not go up and Put option sellers writing put options believing the market will not go down.

Short-term Option premium Price is the major factor to determine the inter-play of sellers coming in , exiting, re-entering and exiting. It is like a tug-of-war between the Call and Put sellers

Both call and put writers equally feel there is good money involved in selling weekly options than monthly options.

Cumulative Open Interest by totalling Options of near week and next three weeks and Futures of near month can give a good indication of short-term trend.

Totalling open interest of FUTURES of near month, second month and third month is good for medium term trend.

I am not good with Excel even, still I am told R has capability to do predictive analysis and is a good analytical tool.

You are a good practitioner of R and I am sure you will develop some good indicators . I have explained in detail my methodology so that you can create appropriate indicators.

May be one indicator can show daily Open Interest of options, cumulative Weekly OI of options, Monthly Open Interest of Futures, Implied Volatility and Put call ratio.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

If you want to make another instant decision making tool pulling data from IB or any data source, it should be on these lines. IB provides excellent analytical tools which can be simplified by providing an R user-friendly Interface for a non-professional retail trader.

IB provides three different interfaces for analysis of options and Futures Options.

Need to combine these in one beginner-friendly interface. 3 screens

Pre-trade Start 1
https://www.interactivebrokers.com.h...rategy_lab.htm

Pre-trade Start 2
https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/software/tws/usersguidebook/priceriskanalytics/option_analytics_window.htm

Pre-trade 3, to get scenario to know margin requirement as well
https://www.interactivebrokers.com/e...nceprofile.htm

If this part interest you, I will be happy to provide an interface design for you which will enable any retail option trader to take decision in a matter of not more than 5 minutes.
Practice makes a person perfect
Golden 88 Pips Today: na
2
  • Post #24
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  • Jan 24, 2020 2:54am Jan 24, 2020 2:54am
  •  Tim78
  • | Membership Revoked | Joined Oct 2019 | 32 Posts
Quoting simnz
Disliked
There is a theory built around the terim Pin Risk that refers to a threat that an option held by the seller will expire at-the-money or near-the-money. {image}
Ignored
That’s nicely explained. Would appreciate if you discuss more about that ‘pin risk’.
  • Post #25
  • Quote
  • Edited at 4:13am Jan 24, 2020 3:53am | Edited at 4:13am
  •  simnz
  • Joined Nov 2015 | Status: Member | 1,453 Posts
Quoting Tim78
Disliked
{quote} That’s nicely explained. Would appreciate if you discuss more about that ‘pin risk’.
Ignored
Pin risk is built on assumption that sellers manipulate the prices, which remains unproven for lack of any proof.
I am trained to simplify academic or technical subjects. I have explained Pin risk without getting into technical terms and the basis for the theory.
I avoid jargon and technical terms which suddenly make the trader lose interest when he/she feels that the learning curve is long.
The intention of my writings is not to let traders feel that I am more knowledgeable than the readers. In fact, sometimes in person, I make many of them so comfortable that they leave with a feeling that they know more than me. This thought gives me satisfaction.
Application of knowledge on immediate basis is important for me because further exploration of subject can be done better after wetting the feet in the water.
Practice makes a person perfect
Golden 88 Pips Today: na
  • Post #26
  • Quote
  • Jan 24, 2020 4:09am Jan 24, 2020 4:09am
  •  simnz
  • Joined Nov 2015 | Status: Member | 1,453 Posts
IB has nice analytical tools for equity options which can't be used for futures options.

https://www.interactivebrokers.com/e...aic/vollab.htm
Practice makes a person perfect
Golden 88 Pips Today: na
  • Post #27
  • Quote
  • Jan 25, 2020 12:24am Jan 25, 2020 12:24am
  •  simnz
  • Joined Nov 2015 | Status: Member | 1,453 Posts
Quoting Tim78
Disliked
{quote} That’s nicely explained. Would appreciate if you discuss more about that ‘pin risk’.
Ignored
Technical subject Pin risk is well covered by https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pinrisk.asp
Another technical subject Max Pain for Option Holders:
https://www.cmegroup.com/tools-infor...rofile-fx.html
Practice makes a person perfect
Golden 88 Pips Today: na
  • Post #28
  • Quote
  • Jan 25, 2020 5:51am Jan 25, 2020 5:51am
  •  nadiyakinare
  • Joined Dec 2014 | Status: Free Member | 358 Posts
Quoting simnz
Disliked
Open Interest is known to be the best tool for analysing option activity. Does it reflect what option traders are doing on a given day? Can we construe large volume as an indicator of day-trading activity? How do we use Volume or Open Interest to identify whether the market is turning bearish or bullish? Who actually is the primary driver of option trades? Is it the seller or the buyer? I am looking for answers to these questions because short-dated options like weeklies and b-weeklies facilitate day-trading of options . Options encompasses the...
Ignored
These are my view and just a very little touch of my whole experience with options so far... i am sorry i cant share all reasons due to time and just want to leave those stuffs away from others knowledge because that the edge in options trading. answering to your question assuming its is being traded on exchange floor.

Q) Open Interest is known to be the best tool for analyzing option activity.
A) Totally wrong

Q) Does it reflect what option traders are doing on a given day? Can we construe large volume as an indicator of day-trading activity?
A) yes it does shows, yes you can use but its a least thing i will ever use

Q) How do we use Volume or Open Interest to identify whether the market is turning bearish or bullish?
A) track IO and volume with time.... if you have experience and smart enough you will quickly understand how to use it.

Q) Who actually is the primary driver of option trades?
A) Underlying

Q) Is it the seller or the buyer?
A) exchange floor

Q) Can Open Interest help me in achieving it?
A) yes OI can help you but you should be aware what options side gives what % of return on your (investment/trade) betting

I have different way to track delta gamma vega theta with my experience, i never watch standard one, OI and volumes are just useless to me if there is enough liquidity of that options in comparisons to my trade sizes.
I'm sorry if you were offended
In the court of lord, only love and devotion is counted...
1
  • Post #29
  • Quote
  • Edited at 6:16am Jan 26, 2020 5:36am | Edited at 6:16am
  •  simnz
  • Joined Nov 2015 | Status: Member | 1,453 Posts
Quoting nadiyakinare
Disliked
{quote} These are my view and just a very little touch of my whole experience with options so far... i am sorry i cant share all reasons due to time and just want to leave those stuffs away from others knowledge because that the edge in options trading. answering to your question assuming its is being traded on exchange floor. Q) Open Interest is known to be the best tool for analyzing option activity. A) Totally wrong Q) Does it reflect what option traders are doing on a given day? Can we construe large volume as an indicator of day-trading activity?...
Ignored
What made you think I will be offended?
May be because You said it is totally wrong and your reluctance to share any reasons.
We are sharing our good and bad experience and there is nothing personal about it.
I would welcome if you find time to go into more details about how you developed an edge in options trading.
FF is not a platform to sell anything but to show generosity in sharing experiences and not pure knowledge that can be acquired by anyone from books or so many other information sources easily located on the web.
Practice makes a person perfect
Golden 88 Pips Today: na
1
  • Post #30
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  • Jan 27, 2020 3:44pm Jan 27, 2020 3:44pm
  •  EF5
  • Joined Oct 2013 | Status: Member | 880 Posts
Quoting simnz
Disliked
I find it easier to use Price Action if I were to use Support and Resistance setup for trading. My interest in exploring Open Interest as support and resistance tool arose recently in October when I wanted to trade newly-introduced Weekly HSI options trading. I could see immense scope for trading both selling (which needs patience and money management skills) and Buying (because of my news sense skills) opportunities every week. For support and resistance trading, you have to identify two sides who hold opposite views. In auction market terms you...
Ignored
Just so I'm clear, you're saying you trade options based on the options' action?
Self-sufficiency is the greatest of all wealth. - Epicurus
1
  • Post #31
  • Quote
  • Jan 28, 2020 2:54am Jan 28, 2020 2:54am
  •  simnz
  • Joined Nov 2015 | Status: Member | 1,453 Posts
Quoting Ef5
Disliked
{quote} Just so I'm clear, you're saying you trade options based on the options' action?
Ignored
Yes . You trade options based on the options action for weekly duration.
Theta and Gamma will be different as compared with the >30 days duration.
Practice makes a person perfect
Golden 88 Pips Today: na
  • Post #32
  • Quote
  • Jan 28, 2020 3:48pm Jan 28, 2020 3:48pm
  •  EF5
  • Joined Oct 2013 | Status: Member | 880 Posts
Quoting simnz
Disliked
{quote} Yes . You trade options based on the options action for weekly duration. Theta and Gamma will be different as compared with the >30 days duration.
Ignored
It seems like you'd want to trade options based on the underlying asset's price action, not the option's price action. I don't see how that would work due to decay.
Self-sufficiency is the greatest of all wealth. - Epicurus
  • Post #33
  • Quote
  • Edited Jan 29, 2020 12:09am Jan 28, 2020 10:26pm | Edited Jan 29, 2020 12:09am
  •  simnz
  • Joined Nov 2015 | Status: Member | 1,453 Posts
Quoting Ef5
Disliked
{quote} It seems like you'd want to trade options based on the underlying asset's price action, not the option's price action. I don't see how that would work due to decay.
Ignored
Sellers: If you want to sell options, then Theta and Gamma are the key factors - in addition you should know what the competitor (put seller if you are a call seller ) is doing.

Buyers: One week period offers opportunities to option buyers who have firm view on the underlying price direction and momentum. Momentum is the key.

I would look for two opportunities in a weekly options. If I think I have a view that on a particular day and particular hour (known economic releases) the price is going to move rapidly I will buy both sides without thinking of the direction but by estimating how much the price may go up quickly. If my view is that it will go up by $4 and my investment is $2 and less , I will go for the trades like Straddle (buying both puts and calls on the same strike price) and Strangle (buying both puts and calls on different strike prices)

If I am dead sure of the possibility of the direction and the momentum, I will just buy one leg either put or call.

By design, the weekly options favour the sellers and daring buyers.

You can see how much the daring buyers make out of weekly options.
Attached Images (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge

Name: s and p percentage change options.jpg
Size: 451 KB Click to Enlarge

Name: S and P options volumes.jpg
Size: 453 KB
Practice makes a person perfect
Golden 88 Pips Today: na
  • Post #34
  • Quote
  • Jan 29, 2020 5:19am Jan 29, 2020 5:19am
  •  nadiyakinare
  • Joined Dec 2014 | Status: Free Member | 358 Posts
Quoting simnz
Disliked
{quote} Sellers: If you want to sell options, then Theta and Gamma are the key factors - in addition you should know what the competitor (put seller if you are a call seller ) is doing. Buyers: One week period offers opportunities to option buyers who have firm view on the underlying price direction and momentum. Momentum is the key. I would look for two opportunities in a weekly options. If I think I have a view that on a particular day and particular hour (known economic releases) the price is going to move rapidly I will buy both sides without...
Ignored
You) Sellers: If you want to sell options, then Theta and Gamma are the key factors
Me) Wrong, theta and vega are key factors

You) I will go for the trades like Straddle (buying both puts and calls on the same strike price) and Strangle (buying both puts and calls on different strike prices)
Me) if you are long on call and put of same strike (same expiry) then you are just trading vega with expectation bit short direction on underlying. if you are long on call and put of different strike (same expiry) then you are just again trading vega but things here depends on strike differences and underlying might have to move more points in one direction before you make money.

but remember one thing options strategies are expecting you will hold those positions till expiry.
In the court of lord, only love and devotion is counted...
1
  • Post #35
  • Quote
  • Jan 29, 2020 5:31am Jan 29, 2020 5:31am
  •  nadiyakinare
  • Joined Dec 2014 | Status: Free Member | 358 Posts
Quoting simnz
Disliked
{quote} You can see how much the daring buyers make out of weekly options. {image} {image}
Ignored
if you think call side in your image is making 200% profit and put side in only making -80% loss then i feel you should recalculate and understand how percentage works ... from value 1 to 10 increase is 900% increase but from 10 to 1 decrease is just -90% decrease...... i will be glad if i am wrong in this
In the court of lord, only love and devotion is counted...
  • Post #36
  • Quote
  • Jan 29, 2020 6:53am Jan 29, 2020 6:53am
  •  LloydOz
  • Joined Oct 2019 | Status: Member | 370 Posts
Quoting nadiyakinare
Disliked
{quote} if you think call side in your image is making 200% profit and put side in only making -80% loss then i feel you should recalculate and understand how percentage works ... from value 1 to 10 increase is 900% increase but from 10 to 1 decrease is just -90% decrease...... i will be glad if i am wrong in this
Ignored
Pretty much everything you have said has been mostly right.

I am also happy to be corrected, but I think the only options traded these days by open outcry are the big S&P500.

I have no practical experience with individual equity options - perhaps most of this thread is devoted to them, because I can't think of any other reason.
2
  • Post #37
  • Quote
  • Jan 29, 2020 7:19am Jan 29, 2020 7:19am
  •  simnz
  • Joined Nov 2015 | Status: Member | 1,453 Posts
Quoting nadiyakinare
Disliked
{quote} if you think call side in your image is making 200% profit and put side in only making -80% loss then i feel you should recalculate and understand how percentage works ... from value 1 to 10 increase is 900% increase but from 10 to 1 decrease is just -90% decrease...... i will be glad if i am wrong in this
Ignored
Are you playing one up game? I am not interested.
Practice makes a person perfect
Golden 88 Pips Today: na
  • Post #38
  • Quote
  • Jan 29, 2020 7:35am Jan 29, 2020 7:35am
  •  nadiyakinare
  • Joined Dec 2014 | Status: Free Member | 358 Posts
Quoting simnz
Disliked
{quote} Are you playing one up game? I am not interested.
Ignored
lolz No , i am not even aware of that game ....... checking on youtube
In the court of lord, only love and devotion is counted...
  • Post #39
  • Quote
  • Jan 29, 2020 7:47am Jan 29, 2020 7:47am
  •  simnz
  • Joined Nov 2015 | Status: Member | 1,453 Posts
Quoting nadiyakinare
Disliked
{quote} lolz No , i am not even aware of that game ....... checking on youtube
Ignored
Instead of proving me right, just share your experience with examples and statstics.
Practice makes a person perfect
Golden 88 Pips Today: na
  • Post #40
  • Quote
  • Edited at 8:55am Jan 29, 2020 8:41am | Edited at 8:55am
  •  nadiyakinare
  • Joined Dec 2014 | Status: Free Member | 358 Posts
Quoting simnz
Disliked
{quote} Instead of proving me right, just share your experience with examples and statstics.
Ignored
I did shared what i felt is ok so corrected a bit where it needed. if you do not want me to post on this thread then please let me know, i dont want to be a problem for you. if someone want to learn then its their job to crosscheck what is right and why, as i am not charging any money and never will so i am not obliged to write a hefty posts to explain each and every detail why it works and why not. just web such already have tons of info around that, was just trying to put you on right track so that you do not take years to get it.

can i ask how much grip do you have on options greeks understanding ??? please scale it from 1 to 10 .
In the court of lord, only love and devotion is counted...
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