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The real Basics - how to start and how avoid the traps

  • #61
  • Nov 21, 2019 2:46am Nov 21, 2019 2:46am
Quoting Viator
Hello, here some input from me: 1-2-3 : price movement down and up again. 3--> 4 : price inside blue area I. 4-->5 : sharp price movement up 5--> 6: movement up to blue area II. 7: area II seems to broken and sharp movement down follows to 8 and finaly to 9. Around there maybe is another blue area III. After sharp movment from 7 to 8/ 9 I expect price going up again? --> hard to say for me. Regards Peter {image}
As your other drawings, good work. Do have now a condition you see over and over? Something you able to see easy, that you build your entry around? You must not have countless options to follow. The less you want incorporate, the more you can focus on that what is good for you. In past I also would to trade all the different things that comes in mind, that was not good. Sometimes the facts work against each other and make the desicion unclear.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #62
  • Edited 10:21am Nov 21, 2019 10:01am | Edited 10:21am
Quoting carlosjavade
hi i have just read your thread, how do you no to put your numbers in the specific places. I mean where number 1 should go? Did you take any successful trades in this pattern? Any further comments would be greatful.
Please make clear what you mean and for what member you ask this? My english is bad and do not get it.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #63
  • Nov 21, 2019 10:51am Nov 21, 2019 10:51am
Reminder:

This thread is about animate new trader to find the OWN way! First you must invest time and a good amount of will. It is work to go this way.
Here we give not a full trading plan and from my perspective it is wrong. Only if you read the chart as you read it and only if you can fix your entry, you are able to trade. If you want fast copy a entry model and think it will lead you to profit over the long run, you are going have some trouble. I would not say that someone is able to go with an existing system, but from my expierence many are do not get it. Jumping years around from system to system.
The more expierenced trader give here some hints and only under that point you must get it. It is not a MUST trade after the ideas you see here. Beside this, it will show you that we have several options on the same chart. Hope it is clear enough.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #64
  • Edited 12:04pm Nov 21, 2019 11:49am | Edited 12:04pm
Hello Viator,

i trade if conditions are met, means i do not rush in trade by market order anymore.
I have two setups i build my entry. I have myself explored many many naked charts and noticed first as you do, what comes in my view. In the next step i sort it a more deeper. Maked a discription what i think would a good entry. I looked after that what conditions i must have to enable my trade.
For this setup i must have ...
1. A move in the trade direction..
2. Price must be hold for a pause ...
3. Price must first spike in oposite direction (sometimes it is really short) ...
4. Price go through the pause and reach my entry ...

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Training_04 (1).png Size: 16 KB


I see more in the chart and earlier setup, but this is visible more clear.

A hint: Make from the possible setup you will use, many many pictures and print it out. Make a small book and watch it over and over. Note the tiny small details that every time a bit different. Keep in mind, that your setup will not every time the same, but the structure will not change.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #65
  • Nov 23, 2019 11:42am Nov 23, 2019 11:42am
Quoting MichaelSch
Hello Viator, i trade if conditions are met, means i do not rush in trade by market order anymore. I have two setups i build my entry. I have myself explored many many naked charts and noticed first as you do, what comes in my view. In the next step i sort it a more deeper. Maked a discription what i think would a good entry. I looked after that what conditions i must have to enable my trade. For this setup i must have ... 1. A move in the trade direction.. 2. Price must be hold for a pause ... 3. Price must first spike in oposite direction (sometimes...

Hello Michael,

thank you for that interesting setup. Some questions about:

What is the right trade direction?
Do you determine that by your own setup (15 min, 30 min, 1 HR, 1 Day, ...) of your chart?
For example the EUR/ USD is currently going down from a montly perspective. But in the daily view you see up and down trends.

Why is spike in the opposite direction (your point 3) necessary for a movement in the other direction?
That means movement below level A in the picture. How can I be sure that such a spike happened?
What is the economic background of this behaviour?

How to find the entry point 4?
This seems to be a very critical point.
Price should move above level B.
How can you be sure that price realy moves up a lot and you are not just facing a spike in the up-direction?
That leads to the question how long you keep your trades open or drive into loss if sharp price movement in your direction won´t happen.
(To often I tolerate loss because I hope of a reversal...I did not have much success with this strategy...)

If finally price moves in the right direction --> When do you exit?
--> Level D? E? F?

I will following your advice to create a paper-folder with my print-outs.
Currently I feel like you have decribed your former trading-style: --> Sometimes I fall into a rush to trade every opportunity. But often it leads to losses...!
That´s the reason I want to get away from gambling. I will work on myself to wait and find the right opportunity.


You mentioned a second setup. Looking forward to hearing from that.

Grüße
Peter
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #66
  • Edited Nov 24, 2019 4:42am Nov 23, 2019 1:00pm | Edited Nov 24, 2019 4:42am
Quoting Viator
{quote} Hello Michael, thank you for that interesting setup. Some questions about: What is the right trade direction? Do you determine that by your own setup (15 min, 30 min, 1 HR, 1 Day, ...) of your chart? For example the EUR/ USD is currently going down from a montly perspective. But in the daily view you see up and down trends. Why is spike in the opposite direction (your point 3) necessary for a movement in the other direction? That means movement below level A in the picture. How can I be sure that such a spike happened? What is the economic...
Hello Peter,

nice you ask for details, show me you have interest.
Now i will go through your questions.

Direction:

I trade only in one timeframe. If i have a good move as you see in the chart, with retesting levels, i take this move for the starting of my conditions for the pattern. I take not in account what is price making in other timeframes, lead most in unclear amount of informations that often work against eachother.

Spike:

Something that i noticed after pause phase or a clear retest of an level. Can be SL hunts but i do not care what it is as long i can trade it.

Entry point:

I trade pending order, because i want price comes back and reach it. If price manage to go through the wall it go further, so my view. Beside this, i give price not too much room and my SL is near. If you trade a wide stop, price must also move much more in your direction. TP is more tricky. I move my stop only if i have two times risk and for this you must also build a routine. Several things can happen, but must in line with money management. As you see, you can move stop under the spikes after you SEE price is moving higher, or you can regnonize a trendline is building and you move with it. You see that is also something to clear and let me say, it is very very important.

If you work your setup out, stay on it. Do not want trade the whole time, setups you not able to trade right. Stay to that you know and YOU CAN SEE. Do not rush more calm.

Second setup:

I build this by reread one of my favorit thread and it was a lucky moment things come together in mind. I will keep this private and share this only with family and friends who know long enough.

Hope it will help.

Have a nice weekend.

Michael

Edit ...

see in picture how SL can work out. Notice i skip first down spike because two times risk is not managed at that point. Please make you thoughts on it and not blindly take this for true. Prepare your trading as you need it.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Edit 2 ..

Please first look chart for details you can build a setup. After that look for a routine how work out profit. Make clear you have a money management that suits your entry and outro.
I let price go in my SL, but also you can think of a fixed risk and reward. But these steps come not before you have the entry build! This thread is about finding the entry pattern almost. If you able to show your prefered entry, let us know, so we can see how your training goes. You have made four good examples with explanation what you see, now go deeper and fix more and more your entry conditions in next examples. See this as next small step to builld entry. I know that at start rushing around and want fix all at one time. Let me say, that is not a good idea.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #67
  • Nov 25, 2019 12:52pm Nov 25, 2019 12:52pm
Another example from setup i use.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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It is important you have build a routine for your entry, fixed set of conditions, that work for you as i show with my setup. I will not over and over post my setup, thread is not about that.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #68
  • Edited 11:05am Nov 26, 2019 10:29am | Edited 11:05am
Now we go over to number 05.

Please! For the new ones, if you post your view, give us the condition for your entry model as i done in the last posts. We have four pictures now with explanation what is visible and i think we now go one step deeper.

As in past, have fun and take the time for it.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Training_05.png Size: 10 KB


For my both entry model i see entrys. Do not make headache finding something that is worth. Also simple conditions will work, if you later pick good risk management.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #69
  • Nov 29, 2019 6:20am Nov 29, 2019 6:20am
I see we going do not have much response here any more and with only one rookie jump here in to want start at really first stage, i am will not longer invest my time to give something back. Seems most rookie take also false direction as i did in past and want ready fixed system without any loss.

It is simple. Pick what you see in the chart and manage risk wisely. Be sure you take more profit out of the trade as you invest as risk. Stick to your conditions and thats all to make money in the long run.

If the conditions in the last picture are:
1. Trendline detect
2. Break of Trendline
3. Retest Trendline
4. Entry at Level build under Trendline

... is not hard to get and result in some good entrys. Do you see it?

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Training_05.png Size: 16 KB
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #70
  • Nov 29, 2019 8:15am Nov 29, 2019 8:15am
Quoting MichaelSch
Another example from setup i use. {image} It is important you have build a routine for your entry, fixed set of conditions, that work for you as i show with my setup. I will not over and over post my setup, thread is not about that.
After an impulsive move I also use this type of horizontal setups; according to your picture!
  • #71
  • Nov 29, 2019 2:42pm Nov 29, 2019 2:42pm
Hi Michael,

due to quarter-end workload at work I´m replying with a delay.

To be honnest it´s not easy to detect the 4 phases (Trendline, Break, Retest, Entry)
This example is much more challenging than your last one:

Reason: Trendline A, B and C are not well-behaved than in your last example.
A and B: Price is moving down before the pause (yellow).
C: Here I would say Trend is C´.(green dottet line instead of C)
The challange seems to be to get enough practise to see the 4 phases. Without your solution I would not be able to see it.

More difficult seems to be trend D: When the current time is "Time T" I would expect a downtrend (dotted red line)
It´s more likely for me to detect trend D´. (green dotted line) and the corresponding yellow bread/ retest.

Remark from my site: As I read many posts in the forums there traders complain about loosing money I would take every chance to learn before facing such a pain. So everey new trader should be happy to get some lessons like in your thread.

Regards
Peter
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #72
  • Nov 30, 2019 5:06am Nov 30, 2019 5:06am
Quoting Viator
Hi Michael, due to quarter-end workload at work I´m replying with a delay. To be honnest it´s not easy to detect the 4 phases (Trendline, Break, Retest, Entry) This example is much more challenging than your last one: Reason: Trendline A, B and C are not well-behaved than in your last example. A and B: Price is moving down before the pause (yellow). C: Here I would say Trend is C´.(green dottet line instead of C) The challange seems to be to get enough practise to see the 4 phases. Without your solution I would not be able to see it. More difficult...
I like your post and you really have the will to go deeper. I said you do good to trade what you able to see and if you have trouble to read chart as other do, do drop it fast. Find your way, be sure you can name conditions for entry, so you go not random in market. After you have this fixed, go over to make thoughts about risk management. Let me say this is the core part, not the entry model.

I am happy that you pick this here, so if you the only one who can take here something, that will be good, as I take out informations as well.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #73
  • Nov 30, 2019 9:24am Nov 30, 2019 9:24am
Viator,

Before i will post next week a new example, can you first give your entry condition? After you have post it, i upload a random chart and you can look for exact entry you gave. So the training will go deeper.

I was beside the road with a post before, i will move on to post here. It is okay if you the only one who have the character to post your view.

Have a nice weekend.

Greets

Michael
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #74
  • Nov 30, 2019 10:15pm Nov 30, 2019 10:15pm
Quoting Viator
{quote} Hello Michael, thank you for that interesting setup. Some questions about: What is the right trade direction? Do you determine that by your own setup (15 min, 30 min, 1 HR, 1 Day, ...) of your chart? For example the EUR/ USD is currently going down from a montly perspective. But in the daily view you see up and down trends. Why is spike in the opposite direction (your point 3) necessary for a movement in the other direction? That means movement below level A in the picture. How can I be sure that such a spike happened? What is the economic...
In the point 2; I think you marked the range so tightly; I think the bottom line of point number 3 is same; included on point number 2.
  • #75
  • Dec 1, 2019 2:46am Dec 1, 2019 2:46am
Quoting MichaelSch
Viator, Before i will post next week a new example, can you first give your entry condition? After you have post it, i upload a random chart and you can look for exact entry you gave. So the training will go deeper. I was beside the road with a post before, i will move on to post here. It is okay if you the only one who have the character to post your view. Have a nice weekend. Greets Michael


Hi Michael,
ca you please give a Definition what "entry condition" is. Do you man a certain pattern or movement in price which makes me able to predict the price at least Short Term with a higher probability?
As a poor beginner I learned that It is better to trade at Tims there many traders are in the Market. So there is more movement in the price.
Also I hesitate to place an Order then price stucks around a certain level (like eur/usd in the last few days).
Have a nice Rest of the weekend too.
Regards
  • #76
  • Dec 1, 2019 3:04am Dec 1, 2019 3:04am
Quoting Viator
{quote} Hi Michael, ca you please give a Definition what "entry condition" is. Do you man a certain pattern or movement in price which makes me able to predict the price at least Short Term with a higher probability? As a poor beginner I learned that It is better to trade at Tims there many traders are in the Market. So there is more movement in the price. Also I hesitate to place an Order then price stucks around a certain level (like eur/usd in the last few days). Have a nice Rest of the weekend too. Regards
Before you start trading and looking chart, you must have build a routine for your entry. Things that must in line, before you concider to take trade. If you jump without this routine in your trading day, you often will go lost in the many signals you will see from several methods. Sometimes is not good to know to much. Better pick in the early days ONE entry model and stick to it.
In the manner as i did with my four points. You can name your set of conditions and i give you next week a new chart. So you concentrate to what you post before. Hope you get it.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #77
  • Dec 1, 2019 3:34am Dec 1, 2019 3:34am
Quoting MichaelSch
{quote} Before you start trading and looking chart, you must have build a routine for your entry. Things that must in line, before you concider to take trade. If you jump without this routine in your trading day, you often will go lost in the many signals you will see from several methods. Sometimes is not good to know to much. Better pick in the early days ONE entry model and stick to it. In the manner as i did with my four points. You can name your set of conditions and i give you next week a new chart. So you concentrate to what you post before....

The problem is that I do not have such a routine (like your 4 steps). Mostly I look for support and resistance that I can either see in the chart or read about in forums.
Somtimes when a big movement is ongoing and for example H1 or H4 candle is long and full I expect a further movement in the same direction and that will be my entry condition.
Also I look what is the longterm trend. If the market is bullish for example I do not sell because there is a higher chance to get into the provit zone.
Maybe for you as an experienced trader this looks like gambling. Thats the reason I am here - to learn to plan and take controlled trades and to make provit in average.
  • #78
  • Dec 1, 2019 3:51am Dec 1, 2019 3:51am
Quoting Viator
{quote} The problem is that I do not have such a routine (like your 4 steps). Mostly I look for support and resistance that I can either see in the chart or read about in forums. Somtimes when a big movement is ongoing and for example H1 or H4 candle is long and full I expect a further movement in the same direction and that will be my entry condition. Also I look what is the longterm trend. If the market is bullish for example I do not sell because there is a higher chance to get into the provit zone. Maybe for you as an experienced trader this...
I have someone in family that i am told same. He is great in control things and can sort fast. After a month he was able to trade well.
Only by structure first entry model and in the second step prepare risk management.

Can you prepare a simple entry model for the next example? Without jumping from this corner to the next corner?
I know that is not easy, but it will reduce your training time much. Most if trader pick to much details it is something doing with fear. Fear to have not all informations take in account for the trade. Fear to loose a trade, because think that some piece is missing in the puzzle.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
  • #79
  • Dec 1, 2019 9:18am Dec 1, 2019 9:18am
Quoting Viator
{quote} The problem is that I do not have such a routine (like your 4 steps). Mostly I look for support and resistance that I can either see in the chart or read about in forums. Somtimes when a big movement is ongoing and for example H1 or H4 candle is long and full I expect a further movement in the same direction and that will be my entry condition. Also I look what is the longterm trend. If the market is bullish for example I do not sell because there is a higher chance to get into the provit zone. Maybe for you as an experienced trader this...
Hi Viator,

The best time to be Trading is when Frankfurt/London/New York Open,

Personally I like Frankfurt/London Open.

For a visual aid I mark out the High and Low between 0.00am GMT and 6.00am GMT this gives me a Frame Work.

The M15 Chart gives me the Bigger Picture and then Zoom In to M1 to look for PA to Enter.

Often we see Price make a New High/Low and then Bleed Back into the Level of Buying/Selling before moving on to the next Level.

NEVER Chase Price, wait for it to Bleed Back into the Level of Buying/Selling before looking to Trade.

DON'T try to Trade it until you have observed what Price is doing each time it makes a New High.

ALWAYS do what makes sense to YOU.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 1st Dec 19 GBP:JPY M15 Observations.png Size: 147 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 1st Dec 19 GBP:JPY M15 Observations 2.png Size: 139 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 1st Dec 19 GBP:JPY M1 Observations.png Size: 161 KB
  • #80
  • Dec 1, 2019 11:05am Dec 1, 2019 11:05am
Quoting stevepatt
{quote} Hi Viator, The best time to be Trading is when Frankfurt/London/New York Open, Personally I like Frankfurt/London Open. For a visual aid I mark out the High and Low between 0.00am GMT and 6.00am GMT this gives me a Frame Work. The M15 Chart gives me the Bigger Picture and then Zoom In to M1 to look for PA to Enter. Often we see Price make a New High/Low and then Bleed Back into the Level of Buying/Selling before moving on to the next Level. NEVER Chase Price, wait for it to Bleed Back into the Level of Buying/Selling before looking to Trade....
Clean overview and nice setup. Something that newbie may look deeper.
Perfection is the enemy of good enough!
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