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Price Action Trading with Indicators! The Freebie System

  • #9,181
  • Apr 18, 2019 12:16am Apr 18, 2019 12:16am
Quoting zorran
{quote} Hi xm7, Sarcasm ? Jokes apart, I haven't been testing this EA lately. There was not much activity in the thread. However, I still think it is a good EA. There's only so much, that can be done to perfect the entry, anyway. In my opinion, the key lies in optimization of the money management. Tight stop losses with 1:1 (risk:reward) may be reason for high rate of losses. Have you ever considered adding a recovery system when/if the trade goes southward?
he zorran!! Naw no sarcasm, just stating something I have seen SOOO MANY times. You are the first one EVER to resurrect , so BE HONORED!

Naw never considered recovery, Dredding never used anything like that and he made BANK.

The REAL MISSING ingredient is an automated way of "SEEING" the direction of price.... something our EYES can do very easily.
DREDDING stressed this ALOT and it was one the keys to the success he had.

Also I am trying to determine WHAT THE HEC VERSION I was using and what indicators I was using back when I would get like 300 - 400 pip RUNNERS!!

So there is another KEY. I know I will find something. It's a question of looking at the situation from the angle of the OBVIOUSLY in from of ME yet I DONT see the answer LOL. I know the ANSWER is SOMEWHERE in my mind or my stack of functions LOL...

Someday.. I'll find it and when that HAPPENS>>> THIS WILL BE A KILLER EA

PEACE
Jess
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #9,182
  • Apr 18, 2019 8:39am Apr 18, 2019 8:39am
Hi xm7,

Its no doubt a good EA. I was just trying to provide a different perspective. Many times the signal reverses hits the stoploss, tests the S/R levels and then again resumes our way, can we do something about that. Perhaps open another order at the next signal instead of stoploss (cost averaing).

I know everyone says let the profits run, but in reality, very few succeed. Also, I was reading somewhere that the profit to stoploss ratio is a key determining factor. For example, if the accuracy of signal is 75%, and r:r ratio is 2:1 (risk:reward), we still make a significant profit. Optimization is the key and, off course, there is point of diminishing returns.
Anyways, this was me, ranting. At the end of the day our objective is to make money, not to be Dredding's 'approved'. I know you like to adhere to Dredding's principle, but he is gone. You are smart guy with diverse skills, I think you can make this way more profitable if you were to add your insight to it. Dredding traded manually, so he may have used instincts which he/us are not aware of.
  • #9,183
  • Apr 18, 2019 9:29am Apr 18, 2019 9:29am
Quoting zorran
Hi xm7, Its no doubt a good EA. I was just trying to provide a different perspective. Many times the signal reverses hits the stoploss, tests the S/R levels and then again resumes our way, can we do something about that. Perhaps open another order at the next signal instead of stoploss (cost averaing). I know everyone says let the profits run, but in reality, very few succeed. Also, I was reading somewhere that the profit to stoploss ratio is a key determining factor. For example, if the accuracy of signal is 75%, and r:r ratio is 2:1 (risk:reward),...
I completely understand what you are saying when it comes to Dredding "is gone". I agree, we could skin this cat many other ways. But one thing is certain, and that was that uncanny profit percentage he had... there are few if any, that have done what he did. You see there is a lot of value on the SIMPLE tools he left. I mean he preached it "indicators can be used to make profitable trades". So with that in mind all we need is one decent way to "VIEW" price direction and BAM this goose is cooked. This is the essence that I aim to get out of this EA.

In several the other EAs have I worked on, I ALLOWED users to provide "creative" "requests". I mean MANY requests, from simple ones to complicated ones.. Reversals, recoveries, support/resistance zones, grandma barking out signals (LOL), and you name it. I complied and added the requests. But the tell signal that this was not going to work was that many times the user would just keep changing the idea or adding to it. As you can imagine after several variations of experiencing this you start to get selective of what to work on. So then I decided to only handle the cases were the user had done some work. What is the HOMEWORK? Simple, LIVE FORWARD test data. Good ole manual testing that will verify that the added approach has some merit to it.

In the end the 99.9% of those that made these requests are long gone without any idea or note if their "request" worked or not. In those cases it is more likely that they saw that it didn't work and decided to move on or my HOMEWORK requirements lured them away LOL.

So, if you have some idea of how to make this thing go and data to back it up... lets do it !!!

PEACE
J
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #9,184
  • Edited 4:34pm Apr 18, 2019 3:41pm | Edited 4:34pm
Quoting xmess7
{quote} I completely understand what you are saying when it comes to Dredding "is gone". I agree, we could skin this cat many other ways. But one thing is certain, and that was that uncanny profit percentage he had... there are few if any, that have done what he did. You see there is a lot of value on the SIMPLE tools he left. I mean he preached it "indicators can be used to make profitable trades". So with that in mind all we need is one decent way to "VIEW" price direction and BAM this goose is cooked. This is the essence that I aim to get out...
Actually, I agree with you. I have changed my mind several times as well. However, I always thought Dredding's entry signals were good, its just how you trade determines profit or loss. A while back, I was forward testing the EA on small lot sizes, with a a very big SL and smaller individual or combined basket TP. Instead of closing the losing trade a new trade would open on next signal and so forth. It did have a good success rate. However, I wasn't able to optimize a good SL/ total profit ratio. It was quite time consuming and I didn't have the tools to do it, so gave up . In retrospective, perhaps closing all trades at confirmed opposite signal would have worked better.
  • #9,185
  • Apr 21, 2019 10:37pm Apr 21, 2019 10:37pm
It's interesting to see activity in relatively dead topics like this but you guys are on the right track with your discussions, but not necessarily with an EA. It is SO hard to program the stuff that happens in your head to an EA because EAs are black and white and our brains are varying shades of gray. I have heard/read that you could flip a coin to Buy or Sell and with the right MM you would be profitable, but only with the right money management? That makes the whole difference. I have seen an EA that had a take profit of 5 and a stop loss of 300. It was great while it kept taking profits but once it hit a single stop loss, OUCH! This is not smart. 1:1 is okay if your win/loss ratio is very high, but 2:1 may be better. I don’t know if a higher win to loss ratio would make a huge difference. I have tested a number of systems, and if the system works, the variations don’t make a huge difference. The whole key is: Is the system profitable? If the system shows a consistent profit, it doesn’t matter how much that is. If you keep trading that system you will be profitable. Most successful traders simply do the same thing every single day without changing. Either have a daily profit target, or a specific signal/price action that indicates it is time to close any open positions and consider reverse. That’s it. For all of the successful traders that I have seen that use indicators, they are simply the confirmation of what they already know. Other successful traders do not use indicators at all. Dredd knew what he needed to do and did it consistently. That’s why he made money.
  • #9,186
  • Apr 26, 2019 7:40am Apr 26, 2019 7:40am
Quoting xmess7
{quote} I completely understand what you are saying when it comes to Dredding "is gone". I agree, we could skin this cat many other ways. But one thing is certain, and that was that uncanny profit percentage he had... there are few if any, that have done what he did. You see there is a lot of value on the SIMPLE tools he left. I mean he preached it "indicators can be used to make profitable trades". So with that in mind all we need is one decent way to "VIEW" price direction and BAM this goose is cooked. This is the essence that I aim to get out...
Hi xm7,

Let me suggest a quick update. This should be pretty simple update and doesn't impact the entry strategy.
Let's say the TP is 20 pips. If the the TP is NOT hit with the first order, the EA opens another position at the next confirmed signal. The EA keeps opening new positions until the combined TP of 20 pips is netted. The max number of positions would controlled by a parameter (eg. max orders per basket=7). 85% of trades close with combined TP within first 3 orders and over 95% trades with combined TP will be closed within 4 orders based on backtesting.
Additional optional exit strategy would be at CONFIRMED opposite signal (with 3 semafor + other indicators; I have not tested this but appears be a good option to have).
So, essentially no SL, but we can have always have a basket SL parameter for worst case scenarios.
i know another trader who uses an EA with similar strategy and is making a killing. I have tried it manually in live account with success, as well.
Please let me know what you think.
  • #9,187
  • Apr 26, 2019 12:19pm Apr 26, 2019 12:19pm
Quoting zorran
{quote} Hi xm7, Let me suggest a quick update. This should be pretty simple update and doesn't impact the entry strategy. Let's say the TP is 20 pips. If the the TP is NOT hit with the first order, the EA opens another position at the next confirmed signal. The EA keeps opening new positions until the combined TP of 20 pips is netted. The max number of positions would controlled by a parameter (eg. max orders per basket=7). 85% of trades close with combined TP within first 3 orders and over 95% trades with combined TP will be closed within 4 orders...
" The EA keeps opening new positions until the combined TP of 20 pips is netted"

So let me understand. Are you saying that once the first trade hits the SL, that when the EA opens new tradess (as it can do now) , it has to now keep track of the NET profit. Right? And that once the NET profit is attained we CLOSE out the "basket" (if any). Also since there is no stopLOSS on these new orders then what do we do if we hit the "EMERGENCY" STOPloss... do we STOP and start over or do we go for another attempt and open new orders with no SL??

The idea seems intriguing and it can be easily added. Just need to kjnow the details of what if conditions. For now I understood that the first trade will have its STOPLOSS and then the following trades will not have a stoploss but the EA will be monitoring them as a basket as they come in. OH question the emergency stop is that for the BASKET or per individual trade?


LOL
Sorry I have to ask the ask questions LOL
JEss
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #9,188
  • Apr 26, 2019 12:31pm Apr 26, 2019 12:31pm
Quoting ericjschroed
It's interesting to see activity in relatively dead topics like this but you guys are on the right track with your discussions, but not necessarily with an EA. It is SO hard to program the stuff that happens in your head to an EA because EAs are black and white and our brains are varying shades of gray. I have heard/read that you could flip a coin to Buy or Sell and with the right MM you would be profitable, but only with the right money management? That makes the whole difference. I have seen an EA that had a take profit of 5 and a stop loss of...
eric:
Hey long time no "read" .

I know what you mean with programming an EA with what is in our minds. I use to think the same But in the past couple of years I have been involved with alot more AI and logic networks etc etc and you would be surprise at what programs can do now... hec there are programs that create their own programs LOL.

So for this case, if I ever get around to it, I would gather all the data I could of how we "look" at a chart and determine direction on the HiGHER TF. Then with that I can program the logic and I know I can have the EA be at least 70% similar to what we do.

Here is an example of what I mean. You know how some traders (the good ones too), take any profit they see? They have a set TP but often in their trade activity you see the tp they take vary alot. I can have an EA do the exact same thing. The only difference being that the EA would randomly select a tp to take at the moment that it is monitoring the trades. Where as the pro trader is using resistance/support, news, feelings, reaction etc. The end result you would see the same affect on both pro trader and EA, as far as what you would see on the trade activity log, that is random tps despite there being an initial TP.

ANyhow... more to come... I am sure this EA will be ready sometime in the near future...
Jess
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #9,189
  • Apr 26, 2019 2:48pm Apr 26, 2019 2:48pm
Quoting xmess7
{quote} " The EA keeps opening new positions until the combined TP of 20 pips is netted" So let me understand. Are you saying that once the first trade hits the SL, that when the EA opens new tradess (as it can do now) , it has to now keep track of the NET profit. Right? And that once the NET profit is attained we CLOSE out the "basket" (if any). Also since there is no stopLOSS on these new orders then what do we do if we hit the "EMERGENCY" STOPloss... do we STOP and start over or do we go for another attempt and open new orders with no SL?? The...
Great that you find it intriguing. To clarify, there will no SL for the first order (or any individual orders).
The EA opens first order, (if) doesn't hit TP (20 pips), waits for the next signal in the same direction.
Once second trade is triggered, the EA has two open positions, both open. If the net combined basket TP (20 pips) for 2 orders is hit, the EA closes the basket and starts afresh.
Else, the EA opens a third position (3 open positions) at the next signal of the same direction. If the net combined basket TP (20 pips) for 3 orders is hit, the EA closes the basket and starts afresh.
The process continues till max orders per basket (user defined parameter) is reached or net combined basket TP is bagged.

The emergency protective net stoploss will be for the basket and not individual trades. I havent been able to optimize a good stop loss value for the basket, as I am yet to exceed 4-5 trades without hitting TP in real account. The combined net SL value need to be enough to give enough wiggle room for the basket.
Ideally, with proper equity, we shouldn't have to use a SL but DD can be 10% or more in strong trends.

Additional optional exit strategy at CONFIRMED opposite signal (with 3 semafor + other indicators) could also act as flexible basket SL.
In this case, the current basket will closed and simultaneously, a new first trade will be opened in opposite direction since its a confirmed opposite signal, as well.

let me know if the above makes sense.
  • #9,190
  • Apr 27, 2019 1:49am Apr 27, 2019 1:49am
Quoting zorran
{quote} Great that you find it intriguing. To clarify, there will no SL for the first order (or any individual orders). The EA opens first order, (if) doesn't hit TP (20 pips), waits for the next signal in the same direction. Once second trade is triggered, the EA has two open positions, both open. If the net combined basket TP (20 pips) for 2 orders is hit, the EA closes the basket and starts afresh. Else, the EA opens a third position (3 open positions) at the next signal of the same direction. If the net combined basket TP (20 pips) for 3 orders...
Yes it makes sense.
HMmm lol sounds familiar to what the the ccfp EA I have worked on. In fact that EA does what you mention and much more. For example we have what is called virtual baskets. The EA takes a list of pairs and at a predetermined time starts to monitors them as if they had been opened for trading. The EA then looks for a certain profit trigger level (set by the user). When that level is reached THEN the virtual trades are opened as real trades, from then on the EA monitors the REAL basket for TP or SL.

Anyhow ....
So the question is the Stop. Without this, the approach can fail badly or if you take random stops that are two early get you out of attaining good equity.

Ok as soon as I get a chance will see about implementing this. ...
Jess
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #9,191
  • Edited Apr 28, 2019 1:51am Apr 27, 2019 6:08pm | Edited Apr 28, 2019 1:51am
Quoting xmess7
{quote} Yes it makes sense. HMmm lol sounds familiar to what the the ccfp EA I have worked on. In fact that EA does what you mention and much more. For example we have what is called virtual baskets. The EA takes a list of pairs and at a predetermined time starts to monitors them as if they had been opened for trading. The EA then looks for a certain profit trigger level (set by the user). When that level is reached THEN the virtual trades are opened as real trades, from then on the EA monitors the REAL basket for TP or SL. Anyhow .... So the question...
Last year I checked on the ccfp thread for a bit on and off and read about the virtual basket as well. However, I didn't realize both strategies were similar.
This is a common cost averaging principle, however, what makes it unique and profitable is that we are coupling it with a high accuracy entry signal.
I agree, SL is important. It will occur very rarely but needs to be optimized through backtesting. If we can determine how many times the EA opened 7-8 trades in the last 5 years and what the best SL value at which we get best returns.

I think as soon as the EA opens > 5 trades it needs to start looking for damage control (any ideas?). This should occur only a few times a year.
An option to open orders at a different lot sizes (not martingale) like 0.11, 0.12, 0.13 etc, can help in addressing FIFO and close orders which are in profit manually if needed.
Also we can test the additional optional exit strategy at CONFIRMED opposite signal (with 3 semafor + other indicators).
  • #9,192
  • May 9, 2019 9:26am May 9, 2019 9:26am
Quoting xmess7
{quote} Yes it makes sense. HMmm lol sounds familiar to what the the ccfp EA I have worked on. In fact that EA does what you mention and much more. For example we have what is called virtual baskets. The EA takes a list of pairs and at a predetermined time starts to monitors them as if they had been opened for trading. The EA then looks for a certain profit trigger level (set by the user). When that level is reached THEN the virtual trades are opened as real trades, from then on the EA monitors the REAL basket for TP or SL. Anyhow .... So the question...
Hi Xm7,
Just wondering if you had any time to look into this?
  • #9,193
  • May 17, 2019 8:19pm May 17, 2019 8:19pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jvqOiU15bw&feature=youtu.be
  • #9,194
  • May 17, 2019 9:47pm May 17, 2019 9:47pm
Quoting zorran
{quote} Hi Xm7, Just wondering if you had any time to look into this?
Nope sorry. Not yet
Our AWESOME IMAGINATION is the true holy grail!
  • #9,195
  • Sep 5, 2019 4:30pm Sep 5, 2019 4:30pm
Anybody making money with this system yet? Seems like everybody that was using it has moved on. Even I moved on to other methods and systems but this one still keeps drawing me back to it. I'm just wondering has anybody come up with a way to make consistent pips with this method. I have decided to try it one more time because I know this simple system has to work.
  • #9,196
  • Sep 5, 2019 4:37pm Sep 5, 2019 4:37pm
I believe it actually work...or can work, just use the general idea and tweak it to your trading style/method
  • #9,197
  • Sep 5, 2019 8:29pm Sep 5, 2019 8:29pm
Quoting ayoknights
I believe it actually work...or can work, just use the general idea and tweak it to your trading style/method
So are you currently using Dredding method and if so how has it been working for you?
  • #9,198
  • Sep 6, 2019 9:37am Sep 6, 2019 9:37am
Made a 120 pips today.
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  • #9,199
  • Sep 6, 2019 9:50am Sep 6, 2019 9:50am
Quoting Checkz
Made a 120 pips today. {image}
NIce. But if you are going to show a chart, how about you actually show the trade?
To free Gazans of Hamas, use whatever it takes.
  • #9,200
  • Sep 6, 2019 10:22am Sep 6, 2019 10:22am
Quoting zorran
{quote} Great that you find it intriguing. To clarify, there will no SL for the first order (or any individual orders). The EA opens first order, (if) doesn't hit TP (20 pips), waits for the next signal in the same direction. Once second trade is triggered, the EA has two open positions, both open. If the net combined basket TP (20 pips) for 2 orders is hit, the EA closes the basket and starts afresh. Else, the EA opens a third position (3 open positions) at the next signal of the same direction. If the net combined basket TP (20 pips) for 3 orders...
Did you consider when the basket goes negative and is at some threshold above the emergency SL to start scaling out, starting with the biggest loser in the basket? If price continues against you, you will either finally close them all at a loss, or, if price turns around, possibly get out of the red. Of course, you need to evaluate long term if scaling out brings greater total loss than simply letting the emergency SL be hit. That is, does the basket manage reverse and then go far enough green and offset the closed losses to make it worthwhile.
To free Gazans of Hamas, use whatever it takes.
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