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The word DISCIPLINE is overused

  • #61
  • Aug 12, 2019 1:34am Aug 12, 2019 1:34am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} It's random to the extend that over time the same type of news in the past provides no clue about the direction in the future. The market can very well go in the expected direction, or it can go the opposite way. Same type of news; different outcome So Mr. Trump spews out another one of his beautiful tweets -- After careful analysis you believe that Gold is going to go up.... Good luck with your trading (;
I don't need luck, been doing this for almost 2 decades and i don't have any of the problems you are winging about.
  • #62
  • Aug 12, 2019 1:45am Aug 12, 2019 1:45am
Quoting tropical_g
{quote} I don't need luck, been doing this for almost 2 decades and i don't have any of the problems you are winging about.
Then all is fine in the most perfect world ...
  • #63
  • Aug 12, 2019 2:25am Aug 12, 2019 2:25am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Let me walk you through this. He provided an allegory about sailing a boat, and my comments were meant as an extension to his allegory. I am sorry it was lost on you. The point is, all traders are the captain, of their own boat. Get it? I kinda thought that might be obvious, but thanks for giving me an opportunity to clear it up for you. So, as a trader (captain), you are in control of the boat (your margin account), and you are responsible for being prepared for an unexpected storm (market volatility), even when you get caught off guard...
I think you are reading it all wrong. Instead of being a naysayer may be you should read the title again. But it is easier to satisfy your ego on picked lines try to comfort yourself. I am not going to comment on your ridiculous accusations. As a capatin of your small boat you can always pick a weather of your choice to sail I respect that. But that doesnt make you a good captain. So dont pretend like how to be a good captain. As I said sail your lazer boat
  • #64
  • Aug 12, 2019 2:44am Aug 12, 2019 2:44am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Then all is fine in the most perfect world ...
sarcasm gets you nowhere - keep losing like you are and giving me your dosh
  • #65
  • Aug 12, 2019 3:14am Aug 12, 2019 3:14am
Quoting tropical_g
{quote} sarcasm gets you nowhere - keep losing like you are and giving me your dosh

I am pretty sure now that you are not winning overall and certainly not making a living from retail forex trading as your only source of income.
  • #66
  • Aug 12, 2019 3:30am Aug 12, 2019 3:30am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I am pretty sure now that you are not winning overall and certainly not making a living from retail forex trading as your only source of income.
assumption gets you nowhere, haven't you learned anything!
  • #67
  • Aug 12, 2019 6:13am Aug 12, 2019 6:13am
Quoting tropical_g
{quote} assumption gets you nowhere, haven't you learned anything!
I don't make assumptions that may turn out to be incorrect.
  • #68
  • Aug 12, 2019 6:19am Aug 12, 2019 6:19am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I don't make assumptions that may turn out to be incorrect.
of course, you know it all. petty you can't turn that into profit instead of loss after loss which has fed you misinformed perception of reality.
  • #69
  • Aug 12, 2019 6:27am Aug 12, 2019 6:27am
Quoting tropical_g
{quote} of course, you know it all. petty you can't turn that into profit instead of loss after loss which has fed you misinformed perception of reality.
It took me a while to understand that the map is not the territory
  • #70
  • Aug 12, 2019 11:15am Aug 12, 2019 11:15am
Get rid all these shiteee , all just mud .....
  • #71
  • Sep 9, 2019 2:34am Sep 9, 2019 2:34am
Quoting KeenPips
A trading system or strategy does not work well by itself. You make it happen. Consistently doing so, with limited losses, requires 'your' hated word, discipline. Lol. Trade safe mate. KP
Agreed, trading will bring us nothing if we are bad at discipline. That's a must for me too.
  • #72
  • Oct 31, 2019 2:59am Oct 31, 2019 2:59am
Well, I don’t think that’s overused. Discipline does have a big effect on how we trade and so I think its quite important.
  • #73
  • Edited Nov 1, 2019 12:32pm Oct 31, 2019 2:01pm | Edited Nov 1, 2019 12:32pm
Quoting OutThere
There are trader inspiring quotes going around encouraging or outright ordering traders to be disciplined and it seems like anything with that word in it gets liked a lot.........
Here is an scenario where being disciplined sucks.........
I think "discipline" depends largely on the extent to which your trading approach is quant or discretionary.

A quant approach implies that the trader has a rule-based system of entries and exits that he's already tested to his satisfaction as delivering on-balance "positive expectancy" (or "+EV"). Then logically his goal *must* be to follow the rules with absolute consistency, to get the best possible outcome. Any lapse in discipline erodes the efficacy of the system, and even the purpose of having the system in the first place. In your paragraph where you say that "discipline sucks", you're describing a system that is not necessarily +EV. A +EV system, by definition, if traded with sensible MM and unwavering discipline, would not cause a margin call. Lapses in discipline mean that, supposedly due to recent losses, the trader has lost faith in his system. He must then somehow decide whether these losses represent a temporary aberration, or whether the system needs to be overhauled, or even scrapped.

However, some folk apparently believe that, due to changing market conditions (or for whatever other reason), no +EV system can exist. If (and I stress IF) profitable systematic trading is impossible, then I might as well make random entries and exits, because I'm going to lose no matter what I do; and if my decisions are random, then discipline is irrelevant, because I have no rules-based framework to remain disciplined to. (And of course if profitable trading is impossible, it would be better not to trade at all).

There are FF members (I won't name them) who apparently believe that all discretionary trading can ultimately be codified into rules, and hence "discretionary" is a misnomer. I disagree. For example, economic or geopolitical factors can have a gravitational effect on price movement. A trader can use his knowledge and experience to respond to an event like a Trump tweet, even though he had no way of knowing in advance what the tweet would be, or that it would even occur. There is no way that this type of trading can be quantified, because the trader is effectively making ad hoc decisions to unforeseeable events. My point being that with discretionary trading, discipline becomes a somewhat different animal. If, in my judgement, price will rise, then indsicipline would mean selling that pair, and why would I want to do that? "I'm usually wrong, therefore I should bet against my own rationale"? That would be self-defeatingly illogical, lol.
  • #74
  • Edited 5:14pm Oct 31, 2019 2:18pm | Edited 5:14pm
I believe that discipline in trading must be tied up with your logically rational mindset. How can you act disciplined or called it being disciplined in your decision-making process while your reason and the reason itself doesn't even understand what you're actually doing... as being disciplined.

In general, discipline can lead you to positive or negative outcomes (it can be destruction or delayed positive) due to unforeseen events or unexpected things that happened. To prevent (lessen) negative outcomes, you need to be armed with the knowledge that weigh-in your decision or logical reasoning... ─Branching out what works and those that don't and supported by data/information or existing case scenarios with higher probability outcome. Whenever you had a negative outcome or result, then you must learn from mistake ─There goes the other meaning of discipline where all of us learned since childhood. ; )─

Warren Buffet once said... "We don't have to be smarter than the rest; we have to be more disciplined than the rest.". There you go, that's why many traders use the word discipline that is getting caught up with their own interpretation/meaning ; )─ Hence, blame it on Mr. Buffet, ho ho ho!
Since Frank Sinatra sings in his own way, my chart sing... I did it, my way
  • #75
  • Nov 1, 2019 6:36am Nov 1, 2019 6:36am
Quoting v2vboni
I believe that discipline in trading must be tied up with your logically rational mindset. How can you act disciplined or called it being disciplined in your decision-making process while your reason and the reason itself doesn't even understand what you're actually doing... as being disciplined. In general, discipline can lead you to positive or negative outcomes (it can be destruction or delayed positive) due to unforeseen events or unexpected things that happened. To prevent (lessen) negative outcomes, you need to be armed with the knowledge...
Yes, that’s what it is, general discipline. But still easy to say, difficult to manage. Many traders can’t handle trading with that disciplined attitude, they always mess up things.
  • #76
  • Nov 6, 2019 1:58am Nov 6, 2019 1:58am
Quoting Bob99
Well, I don’t think that’s overused. Discipline does have a big effect on how we trade and so I think its quite important.
I agree! It is genuinely one of the most important things that determines the success of a trader. So we can’t avoid discipline any way.
  • #77
  • Nov 6, 2019 2:26am Nov 6, 2019 2:26am
Quoting v2vboni
I believe that discipline in trading must be tied up with your logically rational mindset. How can you act disciplined or called it being disciplined in your decision-making process while your reason and the reason itself doesn't even understand what you're actually doing... as being disciplined. In general, discipline can lead you to positive or negative outcomes (it can be destruction or delayed positive) due to unforeseen events or unexpected things that happened. To prevent (lessen) negative outcomes, you need to be armed with the knowledge...
[/quote] you need to be armed with the knowledge that weigh-in your decision or logical reasoning... ─Branching out what works and those that don't and supported by data/information or existing case scenarios with higher probability outcome.
on a postive roll...
  • #78
  • Oct 1, 2020 10:36pm Oct 1, 2020 10:36pm
Quoting OutThere
My brain works on analogies and examples in real life.
//-----

hey ot..... let me reply to your pm here for 2 reasons..... one, we can't pm mq4......

the answer to your first question is by trading small lot sizes with the trend with some more difficult to explain reasoning..... such as the 'what follows a red 14' line of thinking.....

time in trade in that account is 78%..... the remaining 22% of the time will have no open trades..... so, yes there are usually floating trades open...... there is merit in holding losing trades only if there is still the prospect of the them closing profitably..... the max price movement allowed must not be broken..... otherwise known as a stoploss.....

yes, the account float meanders back and forth the 0 line..... when profitable trades hit their target and close, for sure the float can dip below 0..... if negative, it will be a small percentage due to the small lot size..... it's normal for the trades to first dip negative.....

the script below will show your average trade length, average trade profit, total profit, total trades, won loss, and average profit per day..... peyton is only 11 now, 42$ a day is plenty for her..... she trades small lots with the trend using the alma and tsr......

by doubling the lot size, someone could double her returns.....

there is more i could say in regards as to how it's possible.......h
//------



Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 trade metrics.ex4   9 KB | 349 downloads
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 trade metrics.mq4   3 KB | 412 downloads
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #79
  • Edited 11:16pm Oct 1, 2020 10:40pm | Edited 11:16pm
Quoting hayseed
{quote} //----- hey ot..... let me reply here for 2 reasons..... one, we can't pm mq4...... the answer to your first question is by trading small lot sizes with the trend with some more difficult to explain reasoning..... such as the 'what follows a red 14' line of thinking..... time in trade in that account is 78%..... the remaining 22% of the time will have no open trades..... so, yes there are usually floating trades open...... there is merit in holding...
Well, kudus to Peyton. I know the vid you made about it. Very nice and simple but powerful. It has evolved a bit from that time. Very good. Thanks for explaining.

And a gift attached. Thanks. It's on my main chart now.
  • #80
  • Last Post: Oct 2, 2020 2:49am Oct 2, 2020 2:49am
Quoting OutThere
There are trader inspiring quotes going around encouraging or outright ordering traders to be disciplined ...
The funniest thing over the trading is that only EA can give you 100% discipline. But "no EA on this thread, use you brains and eyes only it is much better, robots can't see the whole picture"
Observer effect
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