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(binned per thread starter’s request) MM (Money Maker) Detective

  • #1,001
  • May 7, 2019 5:58pm May 7, 2019 5:58pm
Quoting robots4me
Hey people... I went to sleep for a few hours and when I checked on this thread it was unrecognizable to me. Each post was valuable in its own right, but most are unrelated to the theme of this thread. Granted the theme has sort of shifted, but not that much. It was like returning home after a long weekend to find the house ransacked by teenagers who had been partying that past couple of days: Here's the deal -- please keep your posts related to: (a) automation and MM psychology (b) pictures of your dog and why they are man's / woman's best friend...
I think we are going a bit offroad with everyone posting different strategies. Here above I quoted a post from robots4me requesting the following:

please keep your posts related to: (a) automation and MM psychology (b) pictures of your dog and why they are man's / woman's best friend Nothing that was posted offends me.

Please, no offend is intended, I appreciate everyone who has contributed so far in this thread, there is an absolute goldmine of information shared amongst us.
  • #1,002
  • Edited 6:46pm May 7, 2019 6:11pm | Edited 6:46pm
Quoting TopCover
{quote} Yes I see that trend is important and my 21 pips could be “a bridge too far”. George on the other hand (I think) doesn’t believe in the existence of trends but he does believe in the MM’s ultimate plans. My current trajectory is to see what happens and if the MM trumps all other logic..... I am in experimental mode lol I guess tomorrow will be the result! I look forward to whatever happens - that’s a pretty cool view you have of the markets my friend! thanks again for the view R

I would say that "with my 40.000 hours + of studying the markets and numerous charts" I do not care about what George believes or not believe about trends.

Renaming a straight line linking some Tops or some Bottoms, "Herd Validation Zone", is just selling 2 old products Support and Resistance with a new packaging
  • #1,003
  • May 7, 2019 6:21pm May 7, 2019 6:21pm
Quoting LongBTC
{quote} I think we are going a bit offroad with everyone posting different strategies. Here above I quoted a post from robots4me requesting the following: please keep your posts related to: (a) automation and MM psychology (b) pictures of your dog and why they are man's / woman's best friend Nothing that was posted offends me. Please, no offend is intended, I appreciate everyone who has contributed so far in this thread, there is an absolute goldmine of information shared amongst us.
Thanks, @LongBTC.

There's sort of this fine line that I would like to be respected. On one hand it is interesting reading to learn something new -- but I really, don't care about watching specific trades. I mean, I currently have trades open on half-a-dozen different pairs -- who wants me to show them pictures of my open trades? A show of hands -- please... Okay -- no one...

For specific trades that only two people are monitoring, please take your discussion offline -- PM works great.

If you have a favorite indicator you use that helps you deduce MM psychology or want to share a unique interpretation of a chart -- that's what I think is most interesting. And if you could upload a screen shot with a few arrows here and there along with brief descriptions, then we all get a lot out of it. Some of the screen shots people have posted are wonderful -- not only do we get to see something new, they also save us many hours of studying charts on our own. It's like having many different teachers. And, I should add, the teachers here should also consider themselves students and be open to learning something new, as well. So -- everything in moderation, right? Thanks...

P.S. There is a sneaky way to circumvent my request -- if you overlay your chart with a picture of your dog then you've met requirement (b). In the case of @George, if he is listening, he can instead use a picture of one of his camels.
  • #1,004
  • May 7, 2019 6:45pm May 7, 2019 6:45pm
Quoting TopCover
{quote} Yes I see that trend is important and my 21 pips could be “a bridge too far”. George on the other hand (I think) doesn’t believe in the existence of trends but he does believe in the MM’s ultimate plans. My current trajectory is to see what happens and if the MM trumps all other logic..... I am in experimental mode lol I guess tomorrow will be the result! I look forward to whatever happens - that’s a pretty cool view you have of the markets my friend! thanks again for the view R
Moreover TopCover

George believes that trend exists. George believes that trend is "fabricated by Market Maker(s)"

ALL of the targets setup above are for the following reasons,,
THEY KEPT SWINGING THE MARKET WITH LOWER TOPS AND LOWER BOTTOMS ,,,
CREATING THE SO CALLED ,,, TREND ,,
TRENDS ARE ,,, FABRICATED ,, ON PURPOSE ,, BY THE MARKET MAKER ,,,
THEY ARE CREATED FOR THE PURPOSE OF GETTING TRADER TO EAT RIGHT OUT OF THEIR HANDS ,,,
PSYCHOLOGY AT WORK AT THE HIGHEST ORDER ,,,

which is also an old product repackaged because neither you nor me can move the market like Goldman Sachs today or Rockfeller and other moguls at the beginning of the 20 th Century
  • #1,005
  • May 7, 2019 6:49pm May 7, 2019 6:49pm
Drag the moving average onto the indicator window - box will open. Under parameters select "apply to first indicators data

Ok got it thank you guys.
  • #1,006
  • May 7, 2019 7:22pm May 7, 2019 7:22pm
Back to target levels -- i.e. TOPS and BOTTOMS that are still alive...

Has anyone thought about whether target levels are "ranked" by the MM? In other words, given a choice of targets, why does the MM choose to take-out certain targets before others? Is it:

(a) most recent?
(b) older targets are more lucrative?
(c) which ever targets hold the biggest bucket of cash?
(d) it depends on the moon?
(e) none of the above?
(f) all of the above?
(g) ?????
  • #1,007
  • May 7, 2019 7:30pm May 7, 2019 7:30pm
Quoting robots4me
Back to target levels -- i.e. TOPS and BOTTOMS that are still alive... Has anyone thought about whether target levels are "ranked" by the MM? In other words, given a choice of targets, why does the MM choose to take-out certain targets before others? Is it: (a) most recent? (b) older targets are more lucrative? (c) which ever targets hold the biggest bucket of cash? (d) it depends on the moon? (e) none of the above? (f) all of the above? (g) ?????
The most likely explanation would be the tops and bottoms which have the most stops IMO. Hopefully, George can come in and share his thoughts on this.
  • #1,008
  • May 7, 2019 7:40pm May 7, 2019 7:40pm
Quoting robots4me
Back to target levels -- i.e. TOPS and BOTTOMS that are still alive... Has anyone thought about whether target levels are "ranked" by the MM? In other words, given a choice of targets, why does the MM choose to take-out certain targets before others? Is it: (a) most recent? (b) older targets are more lucrative? (c) which ever targets hold the biggest bucket of cash? (d) it depends on the moon? (e) none of the above? (f) all of the above? (g) ?????
Simply which direction is currently more profitable from MM point of view and this is not about one single pair that only small part of global financial orchestration. 28 pairs fire chain is only part of the whole spot forex that also only part of the inter markets connectivity network.

NIH
Dog + Smile = Beautiful Day
  • #1,009
  • May 7, 2019 7:48pm May 7, 2019 7:48pm
Quoting Nih98
{quote} Simply which direction is currently more profitable from MM point of view and this is not about one single pair that only small part of global financial orchestration. 28 pairs fire chain is only part of the whole spot forex that also only part of the inter markets connectivity network. NIH
Thanks, @Nih98 -- so, you would say it's more complex than what I suggested and ranking target levels on a single chart just doesn't come into play. Okay, back to the drawing board. I'll have to re-think my ranking algorithm...
  • #1,010
  • May 7, 2019 8:04pm May 7, 2019 8:04pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Since the MM can make a grab at any time, then I was wondering why the ADR was so important. And as I asked @TopCover -- suppose you see the perfect setup, but the ADR is already done for the day. Are you really going to pass on the setup just because the ADR says "trust me", nothing more is going to happen?
You are giving the MM far too much credit for the ability to move the market where they want. They need liquidity to move it for one thing. Notice that the MM cannot do much during the Asian session? Not much liquidity. Once the price is getting to the top of the daily range the buyers start to take their profits and close the trades. The liquidity in that direction dries up.
  • #1,011
  • May 7, 2019 8:06pm May 7, 2019 8:06pm
Quoting parisboy
{quote} I would say that "with my 40.000 hours + of studying the markets and numerous charts" I do not care about what George believes or not believe about trends. Renaming a straight line linking some Tops or some Bottoms, "Herd Validation Zone", is just selling 2 old products Support and Resistance with a new packaging
Parisboy

The lines drawn on a chart as suggested by George, herd mentality or targets, so far has shown me that he is exactly right. Setting up the herd mentality the MM can take price to within a fraction of a pip to create the area. Likewise a gap between a candle close and subsequent open can also be a fraction of a pip, but is still a legitimate target for his method. Interlocking of candles is absolutely required to complete a liquidity gap. No guessing.
Trends do not exist, moving price from one target to another is to take out stops. That’s all. In doing so they set up further areas ready to exploit. A trader that interprets price movement between the areas as a trend generally think that other traders, institutions are creating that trend. I used to think the same. I now think differently.
Drawing a line on a chart, to show a trend, can be drawn a thousand different ways, every trader interprets it differently. It’s subjective. And price action from the MM can create all manner of different trends, candle patterns, but the only thing that we need to know, is where are the stops. That’s it. Where are the stops.
Go back through history and prove that the MM does not do the same thing day in day out. It’s continuous.
Two lines on a chart are all thats required. George adds colour or shading just as a highlight.
If George’s method was around in the 1900’s and worked then, and it certainly works now, why reinvent the wheel? To call it a simple matter of just joining some tops and bottoms or support and resistance to me clearly indicates that you haven’t got the foggiest idea of how the algorithm works or what the drawn lines are showing you.

I respect your work and time, but this is not a competition between your method and George’s. No one on these forums has remotely come close to explaining where, when and how the price is moved by the MM. George has.

Andy.
  • #1,012
  • May 7, 2019 8:18pm May 7, 2019 8:18pm
Quoting BlackStack
{quote} You are giving the MM far too much credit for the ability to move the market where they want. They need liquidity to move it for one thing. Notice that the MM cannot do much during the Asian session? Not much liquidity. Once the price is getting to the top of the daily range the buyers start to take their profits and close the trades. The liquidity in that direction dries up.
Thanks @BlackStack.

Quote
Notice that the MM cannot do much during the Asian session? Not much liquidity.
This is a very interesting observation. I'm contemplating the consequences -- but it's foggy. Does that mean we should continue to use target levels during the Asian session (and assume less MM manipulation) or revert to our previous strategies and indicators that did not take into account MM psychology?
  • #1,013
  • May 7, 2019 8:36pm May 7, 2019 8:36pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Parisboy The lines drawn on a chart as suggested by George, herd mentality or targets, so far has shown me that he is exactly right. Setting up the herd mentality the MM can take price to within a fraction of a pip to create the area. Likewise a gap between a candle close and subsequent open can also be a fraction of a pip, but is still a legitimate target for his method. Interlocking of candles is absolutely required to complete a liquidity gap. No guessing. Trends do not exist, moving price from one target to another is to take out stops....
Hey @moodybot -- thanks.

When I read @parisboy's and your posts I detect a disconnect that I am also guilty of -- it has to do with terminology, I believe.

Look it -- obviously, obviously a chart shows trends. They are all over the place. More than 50% of the time any one of us can guess if the next move will be up or down just by looking at a pattern of bars. In fact, at certain times the probability of guessing the next move is even higher. The data is not random -- there are statistical probabilities in play. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but I interpret your comment to mean there are no "natural" trends. That is, if it looks like a trend then its because the MM wants it to look like a trend. Is it correct to say there exists only "MM-generated" trends? I mean, when I look at a chart from a distance and the overall slope is positive then what adjective should I use to explain it to my grandmother? Of course, both my sweet grandmothers are long gone, but in my head I figure if I can explain something to them so they get it then I'm on the right path. Do you know what I mean?

I know you feel free to point out the error of my ways, so I don't need to tell you to feel free to point out the error of my ways. All I ask is that you keep the punches above the belt.
  • #1,014
  • May 7, 2019 8:37pm May 7, 2019 8:37pm
Ok then, no lines at all just Japanese candlesticks chart (or actually OHLC indicator) but still with when, where and how inside my mind to reach 'just enough' precision to make small money.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 112 KB


keep learning and never give up.
there so many types of cutting tools (knife, razor, cutter, sword, axe, blade, scissor, chainsaw, etc).. why ?

NIH

PS. do you wanna try to cut your medium rare steak with chainsaw ?
Dog + Smile = Beautiful Day
  • #1,015
  • May 7, 2019 8:47pm May 7, 2019 8:47pm
Quoting Nih98
Ok then, no lines at all just Japanese candlesticks chart (or actually OHLC indicator) but still with when, where and how inside my mind to reach 'just enough' precision to make small money. {image} keep learning and never give up. there so many types of cutting tools (knife, razor, cutter, sword, axe, blade, scissor, chainsaw, etc).. why ? NIH PS. do you wanna try to cut your medium rare steak with chainsaw ?
Quote
do you wanna try to cut your medium rare steak with chainsaw
This is why I am not allowed near the stove. If I were to cook it then, yes, you would need a chainsaw.
  • #1,016
  • May 7, 2019 9:01pm May 7, 2019 9:01pm
Quoting robots4me
Back to target levels -- i.e. TOPS and BOTTOMS that are still alive... Has anyone thought about whether target levels are "ranked" by the MM? In other words, given a choice of targets, why does the MM choose to take-out certain targets before others? Is it: (a) most recent? (b) older targets are more lucrative? (c) which ever targets hold the biggest bucket of cash? (d) it depends on the moon? (e) none of the above? (f) all of the above? (g) ?????
This is what I was saying some posts back, the MM Detective needs to apply some logic to where most SL's will be sitting.
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #1,017
  • May 7, 2019 9:15pm May 7, 2019 9:15pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Hey @moodybot -- thanks. When I read @parisboy's and your posts I detect a disconnect that I am also guilty of -- it has to do with terminology, I believe. Look it -- obviously, obviously a chart shows trends. They are all over the place. More than 50% of the time any one of us can guess if the next move will be up or down just by looking at a pattern of bars. In fact, at certain times the probability of guessing the next move is even higher. The data is not random -- there are statistical probabilities in play. I don't mean to put words...

Robot

To take part in this game we need the MM to convey a message in a way that, we as humans, can interpret.
The easiest solution is to use our eyes, so they provide a chart. Confusion 1.
They require us to take a view as to which direction they want us to place our money. Confusion 2.
They arrange this through the medium of numbers...called price. Confusion 3.
To demonstrate price on a chart they show open,high,low and close... Confusion 4.
And so on....
We as traders see the numbers interpreted into candles and draw lines up and down (trend lines) in the hope they will provide a glimpse into the future.
Not in my book.
Imagine an identified target, the sky above and the ground below....some called it support and resistance, better though would be to use herd mentality and targets.
Lets draw monkeys instead of a candle,,,,head,stomach,feet and tail.
Where do we draw the trend lines. Head to head, tail to tail...your choice, but not easy when they are swinging through the tree's.
Do we need to have the trend lines...no, we just need to know where the monkeys will stop swinging, sky above or ground below.
We can identify the sky above and ground below in 20 secs of using our eyes to ignore the psychological pattern of swinging monkeys and just find out where they want to eat their banana's because that is all we need...

  • #1,018
  • May 7, 2019 9:17pm May 7, 2019 9:17pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Parisboy The lines drawn on a chart as suggested by George, herd mentality or targets, so far has shown me that he is exactly right. Setting up the herd mentality the MM can take price to within a fraction of a pip to create the area. Likewise a gap between a candle close and subsequent open can also be a fraction of a pip, but is still a legitimate target for his method. Interlocking of candles is absolutely required to complete a liquidity gap. No guessing. Trends do not exist, moving price from one target to another is to take out stops....
Sorry I do not agree that Trends do not exist, the Sharks may move the market to takeout SL's within any Trend, but if the market moves say 10,000 pips (e.g. only) because of poor economic data from a particular country and that data does not improve then the value of the currency will decrease and we have a trend that can last for years.
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
  • #1,019
  • May 7, 2019 9:23pm May 7, 2019 9:23pm
Quoting Robot Trader
{quote} This is what I was saying some posts back, the MM Detective needs to apply some logic to where most SL's will be sitting.
@Robot Trader -- yes...

And what @Nih98 suggested above, that is easier said than done. He explained that analyzing one chart is "only a small part of the global financial orchestration". So, ranking target levels based on one pair may not be the right way to think about it -- too simplistic.

Though I would like to discover / uncover some additional logic -- I'm guessing we may be missing too many pieces. So it may not be something discoverable by intellectualizing about it. If we were to discover something, it would probably come from some clever observation that a rookie makes whose eyes haven't been conditioned over many years to look at charts only one way.
  • #1,020
  • May 7, 2019 9:32pm May 7, 2019 9:32pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Robot To take part in this game we need the MM to convey a message in a way that, we as humans, can interpret. The easiest solution is to use our eyes, so they provide a chart. Confusion 1. They require us to take a view as to which direction they want us to place our money. Confusion 2. They arrange this through the medium of numbers...called price. Confusion 3. To demonstrate price on a chart they show open,high,low and close... Confusion 4. And so on.... We as traders see the numbers interpreted into candles and draw lines up and down...
@moodbot -- very, very nice. In fact, beautiful.

I'm printing a copy so I can re-read it in the lavatory -- I mean laboratory
Seriously -- what you just wrote is extremely intelligent and insightful.

What you are proposing is that traders need to change the way they see and think. It ain't so easy. When was the last time an adult changed their point of view? Not just about forex -- about anything?

You're a good messenger. I'll keep revisiting your post. It's now one of my favorites.
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