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  • #1,321
  • Feb 12, 2019 4:32pm Feb 12, 2019 4:32pm
So i did a little experiment just to confirm my understanding of how sierra works with CQG

I didn't open sierra at all yesterday. Today i opened it, and it registered today's trades, but yesterday's trades were missing. This confirmed that sierra pulls data from CQG, but since CQG doesn't hold data for more than a day, data will be lost.

So if you trade with sierra every time and you have CQG data, you will have no issues since everyday it will log in the trades. But if you're like me, when sierra is used sometimes , you will run into issues like this.

The only solution is if you don't trade with sierra but want to use it as a data collection for analysis purposes, you have to open the platform everyday BEFORE the new day starts, in order for it to register the trades into the platform.

This issue is the reason i decided to discontinue with tradervue journal since sometimes i forget to log in trades form the fill download. if you don't do it everyday, you lose it, and have to do it manually

Sierra is still a good platform for streaming at least.

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  • #1,322
  • Feb 12, 2019 9:13pm Feb 12, 2019 9:13pm
Quoting hilmy83
So i did a little experiment just to confirm my understanding of how sierra works with CQG I didn't open sierra at all yesterday. Today i opened it, and it registered today's trades, but yesterday's trades were missing. This confirmed that sierra pulls data from CQG, but since CQG doesn't hold data for more than a day, data will be lost. So if you trade with sierra every time and you have CQG data, you will have no issues since everyday it will log in the trades. But if you're like me, when sierra is used sometimes , you will run into issues like...
I was looking into this myself as well (just out of curiosity mostly). This limitation is enforced by most data feed providers which tells me it is not a Sierra limitation as here (https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/Contents.php#SupportedDataAndTradingServices) is the list of all supported data feed providers and some (non-futures) do allow upto six months of historical order fills. Not sure why it is this way across all 3rd party products and data feeds (apart from forcing traders to use the platform provided by data service providers - not sure?). Digging thru this link, I also learnt that Sierra is also a independent and unfiltered data feed provider. They tout 100% accurate bid/ask volume intraday and historical data. I also learnt something that has pissed me off royally. All historical data is coming from Sierra and not CQG. This means my testing with replay and possibly sim/demo is NOT going to be an exact replica of Live with CQG. Not a big deal but still... I am disappointed in myself for not knowing this sh*t during my "product evaluation" phase last year.
Staying in my lane...
  • #1,323
  • Feb 12, 2019 10:10pm Feb 12, 2019 10:10pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} I also learnt something that has pissed me off royally. All historical data is coming from Sierra and not CQG. This means my testing with replay and possibly sim/demo is NOT going to be an exact replica of Live with CQG.
This is not the case if your data come from CTS or Rithmic. These data providers can be setup to download and display up to 30 days of tick by tick data. You will need to fiddle with settings, but it is supported and doable. If you need more than 30 days of data, things get trickier, but again, doable.

That said, Sierra historical data service is solid. The data is not collected by sierra, but rather a company called Barcharts which is considered top shelf among big data providers and is one of the preferred choices for quants and institutions.

A neat trick is choosing cts/rithmic as you data provider, as well as the sierra historical data service, and comparing the two data sets over the same period. Seeing is believing.
  • #1,324
  • Feb 12, 2019 10:31pm Feb 12, 2019 10:31pm
Quoting Nik-Nyc
{quote} This is not the case if your data come from CTS or Rithmic. These data providers can be setup to download and display up to 30 days of tick by tick data. You will need to fiddle with settings, but it is supported and doable. If you need more than 30 days of data, things get trickier, but again, doable. That said, Sierra historical data service is solid. The data is not collected by sierra, but rather a company called Barcharts which is considered top shelf among big data providers and is one of the preferred choices for quants and institutions....
interesting. i might consider rithmic. but they are more expensive to route trades with amp (10 cents vs 25 cents). but if they are more reliable, then it's worth it.

what's your experience with rithmic? any downtime? i experienced 1 downtime with cqg..

plus i'm not too thrilled they are not licensed by cme
https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/licensed-distributors.html
  • #1,325
  • Edited 11:13pm Feb 12, 2019 10:58pm | Edited 11:13pm
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} interesting. i might consider rithmic. but they are more expensive to route trades with amp (10 cents vs 25 cents). but if they are more reliable, then it's worth it. what's your experience with rithmic? any downtime? i experienced 1 downtime with cqg.. plus i'm not too thrilled they are not licensed by cme https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/licensed-distributors.html
Rithmic and CTS are both good choices. Rithmic does cost more for trade routing, but they are also one of the few that offers 25 levels of limit order depth (standard is 10 levels).

Personally, i think data providers make little difference if you are not basing trade decisions on bid/offer market orders, orderbook depth, and T&S. If your trading is based solely on candles (especially time based candles), then there is maximum 1 tick difference between all the different data providers. The exchange is centralized, the data providers simply collate the internal data (bids/offers, market, limit, volume) but PRICE is the same on all the data providers.

Therefore, if orderflow is not part of your trading plan, you may want to make your data choice based on the different services offered, like server-side sl/tp, or amount of historical tick data available for download, or trade routing costs, or how many days your data provider stores fill data (wink wink himly)

If on the other hand you use orderflow and/or market internals, or perhaps other trading tools such as jigsaw, bookmap, or sierra pkg 5, data providers can make a difference, but that is a long discussion.
  • #1,326
  • Feb 12, 2019 11:50pm Feb 12, 2019 11:50pm
Quoting Nik-Nyc
{quote} Rithmic and CTS are both good choices. Rithmic does cost more for trade routing, but they are also one of the few that offers 25 levels of limit order depth (standard is 10 levels). Personally, i think data providers make little difference if you are not basing trade decisions on bid/offer market orders, orderbook depth, and T&S. If your trading is based solely on candles (especially time based candles), then there is maximum 1 tick difference between all the different data providers. The exchange is centralized, the data providers simply...
Thanks for the insight Nik. Does "PRICE is the same on all the data providers" also include the exact same bid-ask spread across all data providers? I would think so due to the fact that time and sales data across the providers should also be the exact same.
Staying in my lane...
  • #1,327
  • Feb 13, 2019 9:44am Feb 13, 2019 9:44am
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} +$1750 look at those exits. those are some sexy pin point exits i tell ya what... {image} {image}
+$1095

had some execution error on the exit on last trade..reversed instead of closing short..

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  • #1,328
  • Feb 13, 2019 2:17pm Feb 13, 2019 2:17pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Does "PRICE is the same on all the data providers" also include the exact same bid-ask spread across all data providers?
The simple answer is no, but it also doesn't really matter for two reasons: 1)differences in spread during normal conditions lasts miliseconds, 2) only the CME matches orders, so regardless of your datafeed, you order is matched only if PRICE trades at the level and their is a counter-party.



Quoting VEEFX
{quote}I would think so due to the fact that time and sales data across the providers should also be the exact same.
Time and sales is also not completely uniform across different data providers. This is due to the CME not disclosing how large orders are matched. Therefore, if a 100 contract market order is filled/matched by a single 100 (or larger) contract limit block, every datafeed will display a 100 contract order on the TS. However, if that market order is filled by separate limit order blocks, example: 50, 30, 10, 5, 3, 1, 1, each data provider will display this slightly differently. This may seem like a big deal, but it really isn't, especially if you aren't trading algorithmic-ly on a micro scale.
  • #1,329
  • Feb 13, 2019 5:10pm Feb 13, 2019 5:10pm
so i found journalytix by jigsaw trading. It's basically a trading journal that can connect directly to CQG. I'm fucking blown away right now. Only have 1 data point due to CQG's lack of history beyond 1 day!

But this is so much better that i don't have to upload fill statement from CQG anymore, it's like having a TE for futures account! and it's cheaper than tradervue

signed up for 14 day trial

behold! my 1 day stat lol. will share my 14 day review.

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and there's a leaderboard. but they combine the demo and live traders which is pretty dumb. You have to click each one to see which are live ones.

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  • #1,330
  • Feb 13, 2019 6:57pm Feb 13, 2019 6:57pm
Quoting hilmy83
so i found journalytix by jigsaw trading. It's basically a trading journal that can connect directly to CQG. I'm fucking blown away right now. Only have 1 data point due to CQG's lack of history beyond 1 day! But this is so much better that i don't have to upload fill statement from CQG anymore, it's like having a TE for futures account! and it's cheaper than tradervue signed up for 14 day trial behold! my 1 day stat lol. will share my 14 day review. {image} {image} {image} {image} and there's a leaderboard. but they combine the demo and live traders...
does it force you to run this journal at end of each day like Sierra or it will pull all the missing fills automatically from CQG at end of week?
Staying in my lane...
  • #1,331
  • Feb 13, 2019 7:01pm Feb 13, 2019 7:01pm
Quoting Nik-Nyc
{quote} The simple answer is no, but it also doesn't really matter for two reasons: 1)differences in spread during normal conditions lasts miliseconds, 2) only the CME matches orders, so regardless of your datafeed, you order is matched only if PRICE trades at the level and their is a counter-party. {quote} Time and sales is also not completely uniform across different data providers. This is due to the CME not disclosing how large orders are matched. Therefore, if a 100 contract market order is filled/matched by a single 100 (or larger) contract...
Thanks Nik. I better put my blinders on before I dig deeper into this lol

I just saw this Edit Historical data feature in Sierra and I am not quite sure of any legit use of this feature.. It can be easily used to fake charts with mock up data :-)
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Staying in my lane...
  • #1,332
  • Feb 13, 2019 8:24pm Feb 13, 2019 8:24pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} does it force you to run this journal at end of each day like Sierra or it will pull all the missing fills automatically from CQG at end of week?
yes it does. i thought about just leaving it running on vps, but the downside is that i cannot trade off the phone using CQG.m (no concurrent cqg sessions). I still able to trade off tradingview. I actually don't understand why i can trade off tradingview and have one other cqg session running (sierra, cqg.m, or this journal). it's weird. i can't do any other 2 sessions of CQG platforms..except with tradingview+something else.

I rarely trade off the phone though. so i think it has to be compromise where on most days i can run on it vps, and during times where i might use the phone, i just have to "log in" separately at end of day. In fact, i could just run sierra off vps if wanted to, but what's the risk somebody hack into the vps and trade off that lol.

But this journal is pretty nice. it has journal entries where you can tag trades with setups, rate your day, you can do voice recording and embed videos; the whole works

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  • #1,333
  • Edited 10:07pm Feb 13, 2019 9:55pm | Edited 10:07pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Thanks Nik. I better put my blinders on before I dig deeper into this lol {image}
My pleasure... Again, no need to dig deeper unless your trading begins including raw market data besides price. (edit: i thought of including a cme link on order matching, but decided against it)

Quoting VEEFX
{quote}I just saw this Edit Historical data feature in Sierra and I am not quite sure of any legit use of this feature.. It can be easily used to fake charts with mock up data :-){image}
Plenty of legit uses when loading different data sets that may contain small errors, especially when data has been merged (think rollovers). Most of the errors will be timestamp issues.
  • #1,334
  • Feb 14, 2019 2:29am Feb 14, 2019 2:29am
Quoting hilmy83
he's a millionaire trader and also a cme member. his approach to risk is not the typical retail trader way of managing risk. he basically trades similar to how i trade; in separate sessions. pretty good information. (yes it's an old video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_XRet7J7wY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPp7mJCMDG8
checked on this guy a bit,
apparently he is still around, though not much doing YouTube videos ( or not public ones?), but running an education type website. ( or 2).
he has also written a book,
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=miller+chronicles+of+a+million+dollar+trader&ref=nb_sb_noss_2
happen to have it. but i am behind even with the Darkstar book to read, also got it out of curiosity, and for the right price.
a tough task to read everything to better judge on content.
but will get there.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #1,335
  • Feb 14, 2019 10:21am Feb 14, 2019 10:21am
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} +$1095 had some execution error on the exit on last trade..reversed instead of closing short.. {image} {image}
-$4565

Here's the breakdown of what happened:

I started trading the asian session as i normally do. My initial trades were to short fade into the range. After about 2 hours into it, my trades didn't go anywhere.

Per the rules, i was supposed to close out a portion of my position-but i didn't because i went to lay down on the bed for bit (i was super sleepy for some reason). This was about 30 minutes before i had to close the position out and it was around 1am

Well i fell asleep, and woke up and price moved against me with full position. At this time, i decided to close the whole postion out- down about -$2500

I was a bit shell shocked. Around this time it was near 3am-my end of asian session trading. Instead of just calling it a day- i decided to trade the frankfurt hours. My thought was , i am not taking a loss because of stupid mistake.

So in frankurt, i was building long positions, and it was going well. But then 7:30am rolled in, then boom! immediate loss due to negative retail sales. Now down around -$7000

Well now i'm pissed off. I actually tilted a little bit. I'm tired, frustrated, and now just wanted to make some money back so started trading a bit 1 hour earlier than my usual time. Lost on that too now down about -$8000

So now it's around the time i started trading my normal US session. At this point, i was contemplating just trading normal size, or go bigger to make up all the fuck ups that happened before. My logic was that, i will still follow the rules, just with bigger size. I had pretty strong conviction that my strategy works if i follow the rules. But i will stop once i hit my session range target

So then a long trade was triggered, i exited with about $4000 profit. leaving me with net -$4500 for the day, at which i decided to stop.

here is the pnl curve from the journal

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My observation of today is that i started tilting after taking the loss in asia. I was pissed that i made the mistake falling asleep and not even setting alarm to wake me up just in case so i can close the trades in time.

That led to me trading in frankfurt-which in all honesty learned something about price action that i can use going forward.

But after taking a bigger loss in frankfurt, i broke the rules of trading outside of my trading hours-loss a bit more. Then finally decided to trade bigger size and follow the strategy to make up the losses.

I did learn few things during asia and frankfurt about fading that i will add to my "no fade rules". I have over 5 different rules of when not to fade or close positions.

Deep down, i don't mind taking losses per rules, it's when i lose due to mistakes or carelessness that sends me over the edge. Still need to work on the mindset regarding how to handle mistakes and not tilt after.

anyway, definitely taking today into the books for learning. tomorrow is mid month, still up about $9000 for the month.
  • #1,336
  • Feb 14, 2019 10:31am Feb 14, 2019 10:31am
" tomorrow is mid month, still up about $9000 for the month."

what really matters!
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #1,337
  • Feb 14, 2019 10:38am Feb 14, 2019 10:38am
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} -$4565 Here's the breakdown of what happened: I started trading the asian session as i normally do. My initial trades were to short fade into the range. After about 2 hours into it, my trades didn't go anywhere. Per the rules, i was supposed to close out a portion of my position-but i didn't because i went to lay down on the bed for bit (i was super sleepy for some reason). This was about 30 minutes before i had to close the position out and it was around 1am Well i fell asleep, and woke up and price moved against me with full position....
Love your honesty man

We all tilt.......... the battle with one self never ends ... Well, till it ends. LOL
Live today like theres no tomorrow-- Prioritize like you will die today
  • #1,338
  • Feb 14, 2019 10:38am Feb 14, 2019 10:38am
Quoting profitfarmer
" tomorrow is mid month, still up about $9000 for the month." what really matters!
if i get 1-2 tilts after this, the month is pretty much gone.

at this point of my trading career..it's PURE PSYCHOLOGY that can take me to the next level. my strategy is pretty solid, just the mental aspect that needs work

Quoting iamsovereign
{quote} Love your honesty man We all tilt.......... the battle with one self never ends ... Well, till it ends. LOL
yea the evidence are there. STOP TRADING when you have made the mistake. resume to following your rules ASAP.

but the mind is just unbelievable sometimes..can't put it into words. maybe deep down i love to be in "recover mode" for the challenge?. is that my personality trait? god i hope not.
  • #1,339
  • Feb 14, 2019 10:46am Feb 14, 2019 10:46am
i do think that having this journal for accountability purposes helps a lot. Even though you people are just faceless strangers online, having to report daily pnl helps me be honest with myself. help me explain my thought process. I think i need this until i get better control of days like this.
  • #1,340
  • Feb 14, 2019 10:46am Feb 14, 2019 10:46am
One thing I have learned on this path of forex (trading) is

You think you know your self and Forex say look into the mirror .... do you like what you see.
Most cant handle it ... prescience is the only way and it comes down to looking into the mirror and change must happen or repeat syndrome.

change must happen . its a battle to the end... or its a battle with every trade... never ends

Dude your fine .... dont sweet it
Live today like theres no tomorrow-- Prioritize like you will die today
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