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How to lose money

  • #161
  • Jan 22, 2019 5:52pm Jan 22, 2019 5:52pm
Quoting Rennaissance
{quote} Part of the process buddy, stay wise.
Always. The discipline to stick to what you know works is the hardest thing, they say the holy grail ain't a system, it's you.

We all have one of those days where we forget what we're doing and do silly things and only afterwards do you think 'wtf was I doing'.

Tis all good though, them days are very rare.
  • #162
  • Edited 10:06pm Jan 22, 2019 9:50pm | Edited 10:06pm
Quoting RickM
I need to talk to George but my guess is he is hunting for these spikes on GU and GJ
Hahahahaha ,,,
Dont worry ,,, when i am siting here ,,, i NEVER miss them ,,,,,
Well ,, the move up was stop loading ,,, BUT also validating un informed traders theories ,, Like supply and demand ,,, which has NO base to it in this game in my humble opinion ,,,, it is a myth like everything else ,,,,,,
Missed the actual top for the GJ for this swing as i was away ,,, BUT got the retest ,,, Entry was 142.268 and 251 ,,,,
I need to sharpen my pencil next time as i missed the RE TEST top by 1 pip cause i sat here too late hahahaha ,,, SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH ! ! ! !
ALL filters did line up Mr R sir ,,,,,,, ONLY 40 pips on the table so far ,,,,, better than nothing i suppose ?????
And they say this market is Random ,,,,, DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH ! ! ! !
Here my entries on the YES ,,, the 1 MNT CHART
Just for the record Mr R ,, u r werpefctly correct ,,,
For me that was a suckers move on the GU ,, A TRAP ,,,, the GU has an ADR of 108 pips ,,,,, and at that stage it has done 120 ,,,, and it is in MY TMA pressure zone ,,,,,,, u work out the rest from here ! ! ! ! ! !
They want to push down ,, BUT they want to maximise their efforts ,,,,
SO ????
lets get up and load all the small traders stops above the top ,,,, and get the suckers breakout trades sitting there ,,, and also sell against the buyers rushing into the market on that move up as they are heading for the moon
Cheers,
George
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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LOVE YOUR GAME WITH A PASSION ,,,,, WORK WITH A VISION ! ! ! ! !
  • #163
  • Jan 22, 2019 10:36pm Jan 22, 2019 10:36pm
Quoting RickM
Look at the wicks in relation to its close
I don't understand why people pay attention to wicks. For example, take an H1 bar -- the HIGH wick is the highest price since the top of the hour, and the LOW wick is the lowest price since the top of the hour. But you don't know when those highs and lows occurred or which one came first. Suppose you are near the close of the hour and see the HIGH wick is really long -- does that mean there is pressure to push the price higher? There is no way of knowing -- that HIGH point may have occurred near the opening and it is really the LOW wick that better reflects the current pressure.

A more explicit OHLC example -- take an H1 bar that begins at 1300...
O (open) -- the tick price at 1300
H (high) -- the highest tick price between 1300 and 1400
L (low) -- the lowest tick price between 1300 and 1400
C (close) -- the last tick price before 1400 (could have been a few seconds before or several minutes before -- you don't know). Many people think that 'C' occurs just before the beginning of the next bar -- but it doesn't. The value of 'C' is the last tick received before the opening of the new bar -- and you don't know when that actually occurs. I don't know if it's the same for all trading platforms -- but that's the way it works for MT4.

All ticks are created equal -- the OHLC are arbitrary time points. Relying on HIGH and LOW wicks is, at best, misleading and, at worst, downright wrong -- because you don't know which came first (H or L) and at what point they occurred during the current time interval.

OHLC is a simple way of compressing the raw tick data into a format (i.e. bars, candles) that fits on a computer screen. And it is useful for MA-type calculations and indicators. But it is important to keep in mind anytime you compress data then information is lost. Since you don't know whether the HIGH or LOW tick came first, then wouldn't that have some affect on your trading decisions?
  • #164
  • Jan 22, 2019 10:51pm Jan 22, 2019 10:51pm
Quoting Rennaissance
I am starting this thread to help me and other fellow traders deal with losing periods. I must start by saying that one of the delusions we have as traders is the believe that one day we will find that magical strategy that works all the time and deliver consistent, painless profits to us. Well if you are still in that delusion, let me break it for you. The truth I have realised after 6years in the market and probably upward of 10000trades executed is this: you will lose money. I have learned to deal with loses with having a hobby aside trading....
Very interesting, i was also losing money when i began learning forex. But now i realize that i could avoid it easily if, i only trade demo. Then after i can get positive result consistently then i will put my real money. It's pretty simple i think. But i was very ignorant and inpatient to get rich.
So now, in the journey of looking for consistent result i will always trade demo.
I'm wondering why anybody want to risk his real money for inconsistent product. Makes no sense.
If somebody says that demo and real is different, that's why you should trade real money even with small amount. I totally agree.
But that's the second step. First step is always, consistent result in demo.

Quoting robots4me
{quote} I don't understand why people pay attention to wicks. For example, take an H1 bar -- the HIGH wick is the highest price since the top of the hour, and the LOW wick is the lowest price since the top of the hour. But you don't know when those highs and lows occurred or which one came first. Suppose you are near the close of the hour and see the HIGH wick is really long -- does that mean there is pressure to push the price higher? There is no way of knowing -- that HIGH point may have occurred near the opening and it is really the LOW wick...
Totally agree. But in my case, i think i don't understand because i don't know how to use it. hahaha
  • #165
  • Jan 22, 2019 11:04pm Jan 22, 2019 11:04pm
Quoting phoenix777
{quote} Very interesting, i was also losing money when i began learning forex. But now i realize that i could avoid it easily if, i only trade demo. Then after i can get positive result consistently then i will put my real money. It's pretty simple i think. But i was very ignorant and inpatient to get rich. So now, in the journey of looking for consistent result i will always trade demo. I'm wondering why anybody want to risk his real money for inconsistent product. Makes no sense. If somebody says that demo and real is different, that's why you...
We trade real cause we find something we know works but eventually can't follow it.
When you see it, BET big.
  • #166
  • Jan 23, 2019 5:52am Jan 23, 2019 5:52am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} I don't understand why people pay attention to wicks. For example, take an H1 bar -- the HIGH wick is the highest price since the top of the hour, and the LOW wick is the lowest price since the top of the hour. But you don't know when those highs and lows occurred or which one came first. Suppose you are near the close of the hour and see the HIGH wick is really long -- does that mean there is pressure to push the price higher? There is no way of knowing -- that HIGH point may have occurred near the opening and it is really the LOW wick...
Extreme Volatility before a change in direction creates larger wicks.
It is the fast changing speed of the Tick market during this time that gives away the INTEND of the market to reverse.

The Tick speed of a market also increases about 7-10 times briefly during a breakout candle or at a reversal candle.
The average speed of the market increases during a nice trend on the 1 minute chart as well.
As I write, I am Buying GBPUSD as its speed is currently double at about 10 -12.
At the last breakout candle on the 1 minute chart around 20 minutes ago it hit a speed of 164 during two breakout candles.
I am currently in green pips 48.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #167
  • Jan 23, 2019 5:58am Jan 23, 2019 5:58am
Quoting phoenix777
{quote} Very interesting, i was also losing money when i began learning forex. But now i realize that i could avoid it easily if, i only trade demo. Then after i can get positive result consistently then i will put my real money. It's pretty simple i think. But i was very ignorant and inpatient to get rich. So now, in the journey of looking for consistent result i will always trade demo. I'm wondering why anybody want to risk his real money for inconsistent product. Makes no sense. If somebody says that demo and real is different, that's why you...
Smart Man
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Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #168
  • Jan 23, 2019 6:31am Jan 23, 2019 6:31am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Smart Man {image}
by the way Einstein not was scientist they was just a actor
  • #169
  • Jan 23, 2019 7:33am Jan 23, 2019 7:33am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Extreme Volatility before a change in direction creates larger wicks. It is the fast changing speed of the Tick market during this time that gives away the INTEND of the market to reverse. The Tick speed of a market also increases about 7-10 times briefly during a breakout candle or at a reversal candle. The average speed of the market increases during a nice trend on the 1 minute chart as well. As I write, I am Buying GBPUSD as its speed is currently double at about 10 -12. At the last breakout candle on the 1 minute chart around 20 minutes...
can u show a chart as an example?
  • #170
  • Jan 23, 2019 7:33am Jan 23, 2019 7:33am
Quoting RickM
Extreme Volatility before a change in direction creates larger wicks.
@RickM -- thanks for your response. I think I just learned something new...

Just so I'm clear -- you're saying the length of a wick is a reflection of tick speed and extreme volatility, is that correct? And, if so, could you answer the following question:
Since you don't know when that HIGH or LOW wick occurs (i.e. it can occur anytime during a bar's creation) then the length of a wick and a fast, changing tick speed could have occurred hours ago (e.g. at the beginning of an H4 candle). Is that correct?

Hmmmm -- I think I just answered my own question. Is this why you choose to trade M1 charts -- because this puts you in closer proximity to fast, changing tick speeds?

Actually, wouldn't tick speed be the same for any time frame?
  • #171
  • Jan 23, 2019 9:46am Jan 23, 2019 9:46am
Quoting RickM
{quote} Extreme Volatility before a change in direction creates larger wicks. It is the fast changing speed of the Tick market during this time that gives away the INTEND of the market to reverse. The Tick speed of a market also increases about 7-10 times briefly during a breakout candle or at a reversal candle. The average speed of the market increases during a nice trend on the 1 minute chart as well. As I write, I am Buying GBPUSD as its speed is currently double at about 10 -12. At the last breakout candle on the 1 minute chart around 20 minutes...
Yeah I have also noted that pattern, volatility increases just before there is a change in direction. In a trendy market volatility is usually low unless at breakouts which is a minor change in direction because the market quickly reverses,even thou it might continue upward in the future.
When you see it, BET big.
  • #172
  • Jan 23, 2019 9:50am Jan 23, 2019 9:50am
I just made a realization in recent times, those that understand will. Don't want to divulge in details what I found for obvious reasons. The market is both your friend and your enemy.
When you see it, BET big.
  • #173
  • Jan 23, 2019 12:02pm Jan 23, 2019 12:02pm
RickM I never try something new with a demo account because I know I would not learn as much as trading using a real account. On top of that many times the price shown on a demo account and the data flow is not the same as on the same broker's real account. The result is that when I try something new I only use 0.1 lot and expect losses but at least I gain real experience. Today I made the mistake to try something new but forgot to change my lot size so I lost more than I had planned. Oh well, this is life and life is learning.
  • #174
  • Jan 23, 2019 3:08pm Jan 23, 2019 3:08pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @RickM -- thanks for your response. I think I just learned something new... Just so I'm clear -- you're saying the length of a wick is a reflection of tick speed and extreme volatility, is that correct? And, if so, could you answer the following question: Since you don't know when that HIGH or LOW wick occurs (i.e. it can occur anytime during a bar's creation) then the length of a wick and a fast, changing tick speed could have occurred hours ago (e.g. at the beginning of an H4 candle). Is that correct? Hmmmm -- I think I just answered my...
Tick speed is the urgency of the market to move quickly to close orders. This creates micro gaps in the market which we almost never see on a H4 candle but can see on occasions on the M1 Charts. The problem we have on the MT4 platform is it misses data or ticks from our screens and just shows us a representation of where the price has been which may not be 100% correct. Check out a chart based on x amounts of ticks and its a lot smoother with clearer price action.
Does this mean a tick chart is better to trade?.
No because Tick charts don't clearly show the speed of the Tick movement which is a good clue that SOMETHING MAY BE HAPPENING. A trend or a reversal MAY be occurring on the 1 minute chart if the Tick speed is rapid.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #175
  • Jan 23, 2019 3:18pm Jan 23, 2019 3:18pm
Quoting Hutch
RickM I never try something new with a demo account because I know I would not learn as much as trading using a real account. On top of that many times the price shown on a demo account and the data flow is not the same as on the same broker's real account. The result is that when I try something new I only use 0.1 lot and expect losses but at least I gain real experience. Today I made the mistake to try something new but forgot to change my lot size so I lost more than I had planned. Oh well, this is life and life is learning.
That is the biggest mistake you can make. You have no fear trading 0.01 Lot size so you won't care if you win or lose. If you don't care, you won't learn much.
The main reason however is system development. You need to be able to test your trading system in all conditions during a consolidation period and a trending period.
You need to test the draw down length and period to see if it is acceptable. How much draw down can your system handle without breaking. You would be too scared to do that on a live chart because you would be losing money just to see how it turned out.
I have 13 Demo accounts for my EA portfolio work, I test my strategy's thought the MT4 strategy tester on all time frames over a few time periods so I can UNDERSTAND if my strategy works. That is around 3 weeks testing period.
How the hell do you learn anything trading 0.01 lot size on a Live Account.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #176
  • Jan 23, 2019 4:42pm Jan 23, 2019 4:42pm
hi
did the test on demo my personal system on every condition until did get 7 wins out of 10 with very good money management and above all the best set up with the trend of my system a do not gamble and lot of 0.25 very very happy. but he did take time and mostly to understand the market behavior or can a puzzle some time FOREX will give you so many pips that all if that day momentum you are on a winner but some days the market dead so a do not trade watch movie, remember do not look for pips when his none.
  • #177
  • Edited 6:31pm Jan 23, 2019 5:29pm | Edited 6:31pm
Quoting ellenbrook
hi did the test on demo my personal system on every condition until did get 7 wins out of 10 with very good money management and above all the best set up with the trend of my system a do not gamble and lot of 0.25 very very happy. but he did take time and mostly to understand the market behavior or can a puzzle some time FOREX will give you so many pips that all if that day momentum you are on a winner but some days the market dead so a do not trade watch movie, remember do not look for pips when his none.
Hi Ellen
I believe a good test period is 100 trades on any system. Hope your strategy works well for you. I personally never look at win rates as it means little to the profitability of a system. I am only concerned on achieving the highest profit results where the draw down is kept at no more than 10% on testing and 20% on a demo account.
Trading thin liquidity at the boundary of the charts
  • #178
  • Jan 23, 2019 6:29pm Jan 23, 2019 6:29pm
Quoting alphaomega
How to lose money? There are many ways to lose. This is one of my proven strategies. I developed this strategy many years ago and it still works today and it will continue to work until the end of time. (100% loss guarantee) {image} It's good that I don't use this strategy anymore.
follow follow follow, BE.loss, follow, follow, follow, black swan, account blown, rinse repeat lol
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Staying in my lane...
  • #179
  • Jan 23, 2019 7:08pm Jan 23, 2019 7:08pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Hi Ellen I believe a good test period is 100 trades on any system. Hope your strategy works well for you. I personally never look at win rates as it means little to the profitability of a system. I am only concerned on achieving the highest profit results where the draw down is kept at no more than 10% on testing and 20% on a demo account.
HI

thanks did test for 6 months 5 days of the week until a did get 7 winners out of 10 and I am sure all fine now a did mention do only trade the very good set up no gambling a miss some but no stressed to be safe
  • #180
  • Jan 23, 2019 9:05pm Jan 23, 2019 9:05pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Tick speed is the urgency of the market to move quickly to close orders. This creates micro gaps in the market which we almost never see on a H4 candle but can see on occasions on the M1 Charts. The problem we have on the MT4 platform is it misses data or ticks from our screens and just shows us a representation of where the price has been which may not be 100% correct. Check out a chart based on x amounts of ticks and its a lot smoother with clearer price action. Does this mean a tick chart is better to trade?. No because Tick charts don't...
Speed is something that i have been learning now.. In time based chart, speed will always be there and may leave a clue. I've been learning from some success 1m trader, and i think they also consider speed

I trade 1m chart and try to get as much as possible clue how to read what happen in that time frame. Currently i'm studying volatility, liquidity, efficient/inefficient market on certain session.

There are so much knowledge in this forum, but i think it will be wiser if we focus on 1 thing so our learning curve will be better.
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