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  • #101
  • Edited 7:50pm Jan 20, 2019 6:39pm | Edited 7:50pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} " Scalping at microstructure level via consistent application of a "Constant" and Universal tactical technique " Sounds like a good topic by itself in the Trading discussion forum. Anyone trading like that?
Me, except I prefer to up the level for better yardage.

Quoting moneymaker2
{quote} You don't get bonus points for being able to calculate anything. Key words and tricky phrases mean nothing. You just need to learn what works and what doesn't. In trading, no one is impressed with your IQ, people are impressed with your bank account!
I am not good with words. I am a trader, not a mathematician or writer.

Quoting VEEFX
{quote} 99% of over 450 strategies I tested using OHLC data have proved this point..... they all work for a year or two but non worked more than 3+ yrs taking every buy/sell signal
It all comes down to how we use those indicators.
Which implies we must have good knowledge of the price first. Indicator is not the main fault, it is the victim. Fault lies in the knowledge of the market and price itself.
Normal for people to blame indicators, that's merely the tools we use to aid our trading process. Traders tend not to blame ourselves.

Edit - we don't trade indicator signals, no we shouldn't. Don't ever make this mistake of trading indicator signals.
We use indicators to help identify, draw our attention to and alert us to particular market conditions that unfolds at certain times. We trade the market and price.

Some people say trading without indicators is like trading blind.
I say trading without indicators is like trading without tools.
We want to travel from our home to downtown for say shopping. We can travel in our car, call a grabcab, take the subway, bus, or cycle or walk all the way there. Trading without indicators is like walking downtown, it's our free choice. No right or wrong. Just that we tend to complain about the car, cab, subway, bus, bicycle it's our habit.
  • #102
  • Jan 20, 2019 7:11pm Jan 20, 2019 7:11pm
Quoting skyway
{quote} Me, except I prefer to up the level for better yardage. .
Okay, so can you expand on the particulars of this phrase since you understand it well please? " Scalping at microstructure level via consistent application of a "Constant" and Universal tactical technique "
  • #103
  • Jan 20, 2019 7:29pm Jan 20, 2019 7:29pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Okay, so can you expand on the particulars of this phrase since you understand it well please? " Scalping at microstructure level via consistent application of a "Constant" and Universal tactical technique "
VEEFX wrote a statement that uses many complex words which refers to many things that's put into one sentence. So our understanding of what he wrote is challenged. But he refers to CP and if you do follow their conversation you understand what he refers to.

Firstly, I don't trade at tick level. Yardage is the reason. What happens at tick level happens the same at higher timeframes, to me there is no different. I chose the level for best yardage, it's my personal preference.

Consistent application of a "constant", this I agree. Except I differ in that this "constant" is not math itself. It's the pecularity of the market and price. Math helps identify this pecularity.

"Universal tactical technique", again I agree. In that it is unversal in varying structures and conditions. It has to be tactical by logic. Again, it is not math itself. It's all about the market and price.

Trading is all about the market and price. Not about math itself, I have to emphasise this. Math is the necessary tool we use to aid us.

Moneymaker2 use of bb is one such example.

The complexicity lies in the market and price. The tool we use has to match up to this complexicity. This tool helps to identify, draw our attention to, alert us to this pecularity of market and price. This brings us back to the starting point(which should be the focal point) - our knowledge and understanding of market and price.
  • #104
  • Jan 20, 2019 7:49pm Jan 20, 2019 7:49pm
Quoting skyway
{quote} VEEFX wrote a statement that uses many complex words which refers to many things that's put into one sentence. So our understanding of what he wrote is challenged. But he refers to CP and if you do follow their conversation you understand what he refers to. Firstly, I don't trade at tick level. Yardage is the reason. What happens at tick level happens the same at higher timeframes, to me there is no different. I chose the level for best yardage, it's my personal preference. Consistent application of a "constant", this I agree. Except I differ...
Oh, CP is just some ex FF member. I thought CruitalPoint was some kind of deep analytical company using AI to decipher the code of trading Forex and all their data points to impossibility of using indicators to make good trades bla bla. Very disappointed to find a very arrogant and jittery guy showing off he makes so much money that he is a god and we have to all worship him. Yah whatever he's got to say. Who cares?
  • #105
  • Jan 20, 2019 8:53pm Jan 20, 2019 8:53pm
Quoting CannonScout
How to lose money? Buy High sell low right? Honestly the concept behind trading is easy. Buy when price will rise and sell when price will descend. You just need to identify a method that can do this for you. Thats the tricky part & it changes for each account/person.
What is high ? And what is low?
When you see it, BET big.
  • #106
  • Jan 20, 2019 9:01pm Jan 20, 2019 9:01pm
Quoting moneymaker2
{quote} I'm sorry that you interpreted my comments when I said "you" and "your" that I was speaking to you personally....those were generalities to go along with the fact that my daughter, a new trader, could trade by just focusing on the main subject of trading (making money) rather than the mathematical side of proofing points. I apologize if you felt like any of that was a personal attack, as certainly none was meant to be. But honestly, if you felt "the personal attacks have begun....as always", perhaps it is time for some introspective analysis...
NP. If you are really in my age group of 50s and a father, we will get along just fine. We might even become best buds forever lol
Just so we are all clear, I have no reason to doubt your experience with divergence.

To others, I did not come here to pick on anyone or question anybody's performance or success or to impose my research or POV on anyone. Those days are over for me. My posts are only meant towards those who are either delusional about their success or still struggling to make it after decades of screen time or still following their guru and feeling miserable about their up and down performance. They are not alone. They make up of 99% of forum members who don't have the nerves to come out and say they are struggling.... I am seeing slowly and surely many members are coming forward to bring light to their struggles which is the first step towards problem recognition. It takes just one spark to start a revolution and bring down the empire.... and that day will inevitably come crushing down on the spot fx industry.

You are right about correlation between intelligence/IQ and trading. None of the highly intellects that I have come across over past 3 decades would ever touch spot fx or trading as a full time profession.... and where I live, there is no shortage of pure intellects.
Staying in my lane...
  • #107
  • Jan 20, 2019 9:03pm Jan 20, 2019 9:03pm
Quoting Rennaissance
{quote} What is high ? And what is low?
Don't be fooled by randomness like most traders are. There is nothing like high or low in the markets. That's why going against indicators produces a higher expectancy than following them. When it reads overbought, that's when to buy. People don't seem to grasp this easily. When a market is going up, it is going to have a higher propensity to go up. Why? Because we are humans and we love copying each other, we move in herds.
When you see it, BET big.
  • #108
  • Jan 20, 2019 9:10pm Jan 20, 2019 9:10pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} NP. If you are really in my age group of 50s and a father, we will get along just fine. We might even become best buds forever lol Just so we are all clear, I have no reason to doubt your experience with divergence. To others, I did not come here to pick on anyone or question anybody's performance or success or to impose my research or POV on anyone. Those days are over for me. My posts are only meant towards those who are either delusional about their success or still struggling to make it after decades of screen time or still following...
Nice post, I also think most of us are really struggling and will never admit it. The reason for failure for me is people not seeing the truth, that most of what they are seeing being naked price action or its derivatives is random. Just understanding this is a big step forward.Cheers.
When you see it, BET big.
  • #109
  • Jan 20, 2019 9:10pm Jan 20, 2019 9:10pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Oh, CP is just some ex FF member. I thought CruitalPoint was some kind of deep analytical company using AI to decipher the code of trading Forex and all their data points to impossibility of using indicators to make good trades bla bla. Very disappointed to find a very arrogant and jittery guy showing off he makes so much money that he is a god and we have to all worship him. Yah whatever he's got to say. Who cares?
That is why I stopped reading his posts beyond his journal thread which ended with some secret formula shit. I ignored him all these years because I did not believe in Tick data (ask yourself why brokers do NOT provide historical tick data in real time). Now that I have moved to Futures, Tick is taking a place in my research with regulated data feed from CME.

I am only validating my findings via results of hard work, (which will always come first and foremost) with the rest of the world. I am not even looking for an agreement/disagreement/feedback/counter-discussion these days from members of this forum.

Anyways, enough of this. Back to where my focus belongs.
Staying in my lane...
  • #110
  • Jan 20, 2019 9:30pm Jan 20, 2019 9:30pm
Quoting skyway
{quote} VEEFX wrote a statement that uses many complex words which refers to many things that's put into one sentence. So our understanding of what he wrote is challenged. But he refers to CP and if you do follow their conversation you understand what he refers to. Firstly, I don't trade at tick level. Yardage is the reason. What happens at tick level happens the same at higher timeframes, to me there is no different. I chose the level for best yardage, it's my personal preference. Consistent application of a "constant", this I agree. Except I differ...
Math is never Constant by definition. The Application of Math on variabilities (or irregularities) could possibly turn into a "constant outcome". By Constant, I don't mean a number or a digit or a value that never changes during a life cycle. By constant, I mean an anchor that allows you to measure and derive a strategy or framework around it in the hopes that the strategy will become a universally acceptable strategy across any time series across any market or instrument or trading style or market condition. If it is not, you are only dealing with a brief or temporary (and optimized?) "curve-fitted" set of parameters or specialized condition sets which will eventually change over time related to some unique conditions that either have failed to work or have not been accounted for.

If anyone thinks there is some hidden Divergence (the reason why I came here) or a concrete "Edge" in a pricextime series that can be exploited consistently for years to make a full time career out of it, they are up for a rude awakening. I am here to stop the hopes it gives to struggling traders into thinking they are just too dumb or stupid to find this so called EDGE in the marketplace of never-ending pricextime series. There is NONE or market will stop to exist. I have written intensely about my brute force market making algo to defect any manipulations or disparities in price feeds and we all know what happened. I tried the same on day one of trading futures and by "regulation", such price "discovery and trapping" strategies are considered "disruptive practice" by the industry. If you gain 80% of your account in less than 8 hours, you will be flagged and thrown in jail under the name of "disruptive practice to prevent orderly function of markets" lol
Staying in my lane...
  • #111
  • Edited 9:57pm Jan 20, 2019 9:39pm | Edited 9:57pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote}By constant, I mean an anchor that allows you to measure and derive a strategy or framework around it in the hopes that the strategy will become a universally acceptable strategy across any time series across any market or instrument or trading style or market condition.
I agree, that's why I took the trouble to elaborate a little more of what I wrote. The highlighted part is what I try to say. You write it to explain it clearly.

Quoting VEEFX
{quote} If it is not, you are only dealing with a brief or temporary (and optimized?) "curve-fitted" set of parameters or specialized condition sets which will eventually change over time related to some unique conditions that either have failed to work or have not been accounted for. If anyone thinks there is some hidden Divergence (the reason why I came here) or a concrete "Edge" in a pricextime series that can be exploited consistently for years to make a full time career out of it, they are up for a rude awakening.
Again I agree. I clearly stated that traders should never trade the indicators which is math in visual format.

The universal constant is the market and price of whatever instrument we chose trade, makes no difference.
The things we face in instrument A will be the same as instrument B. Ofc there are differences in the rules and technicalities of each instrument.
When the trader can see and understand this then he has gained knowledge of this constant.
Each trader choses the instrument to trade that best suit his requirement. This changes as his knowledge about the market, price and instruments offered grows.
  • #112
  • Jan 20, 2019 10:13pm Jan 20, 2019 10:13pm
Quoting Rennaissance
{quote} That's why going against indicators produces a higher expectancy than following them. When it reads overbought, that's when to buy. People don't seem to grasp this easily. When a market is going up, it is going to have a higher propensity to go up.
Perhaps that is the case in currency markets, but not in the stock market. I make most of my living trading stock/index options rather than currency, and I base my decisions on overbought/oversold conditions (my live trades are posted in the "Let's Trade Options" thread) and I can tell you, in my experience, if you go against a strong overbought/oversold indication, you will not be happy with the results!

You are right about people having the "herd mentality", and that is what provides the self-fulfilling prophecy of most indicators; Triple top? Prices are expected to fall, and they do because people sell BECAUSE they expect prices to fall and don't want to be caught holding the stock when they do. Doesn't matter if algorithms are involved, because they are programmed by people that expect prices to fall.

If a stock shows very oversold levels, watch it and you'll see it start to move up rapidly, and that is the people having to cover their short sales and that in itself drives the market up, causing more people to cover their shorts, driving price up even higher. You won't see this in forex, but happens all the time in stocks.

All markets are not created equal and the stock market and currency market are two different animals altogether....
  • #113
  • Jan 21, 2019 12:21am Jan 21, 2019 12:21am
Markets are the same because people are the same. Man is global.
When you see it, BET big.
  • #114
  • Jan 21, 2019 1:41am Jan 21, 2019 1:41am
Quoting moneymaker2
{quote} All markets are not created equal and the stock market and currency market are two different animals altogether....
Do you trade your divergence setup successfully in Stocks also or just on Currencies? I wonder if indicator-based Divergence is more prevailing in FX and not in other markets... due to the competing nature of pairs-trading involved.
Staying in my lane...
  • #115
  • Edited 10:42am Jan 21, 2019 2:05am | Edited 10:42am
Only in currency. I trade a few other pattens for currency, too. While all the methods tend to work well in forex, they do not do the same in stocks. I trade stock/index options based on extreme overbought/oversold conditions (using indicators) and that method does not work in currency trading.

That’s why I say the two are totally different animals, because if they were the same, logically they should be able to be traded the same.
  • #116
  • Edited 2:28am Jan 21, 2019 2:15am | Edited 2:28am
Quoting moneymaker2
Only in currency. I trade a few other pattens for currency, too. While all the methods tend to work well in forex, they do not do the same in stocks. I trade stock/index options based on extreme overbought/oversold conditions (using indicators) and that method does not work in currency trading. That’s why I say the two are totally different animals, because if they were the same, logical they should be able to be traded the same.
They are actually the same. The difference lies in the calibration for it to work with stock/index or other instruments. By calibration, it means to change all variables available. The difference is due to the liquidity and volatility of each instrument.

Tuning the guitar or piano is the same. The skill to tune a piano is higher as compared to a guitar. The tuning fork is the constant universal guide.
  • #117
  • Jan 21, 2019 2:34am Jan 21, 2019 2:34am
Quoting moneymaker2
Only in currency. I trade a few other pattens for currency, too. While all the methods tend to work well in forex, they do not do the same in stocks. I trade stock/index options based on extreme overbought/oversold conditions (using indicators) and that method does not work in currency trading. That’s why I say the two are totally different animals, because if they were the same, logical they should be able to be traded the same.
That is why I only focus on the universal application principle... but whatever works for you man. As I sad, ultimately, the tools are pretty much the same and skills vary from trader to trader. That is why I believe trading cannot be taught via screenshots and posting on forums. LiveStream is probably the closed possibility to fully understand what the trader is doing (or not doing).
Staying in my lane...
  • #118
  • Jan 21, 2019 11:03am Jan 21, 2019 11:03am
Quoting skyway
{quote} The difference is due to the liquidity and volatility of each instrument.
Exactly. Bollinger Bands and RSI are calculated the exact same way, regardless of the market in question. It is the other market forces that cause the result of the indicator's expected price change to be different for each market. There are on X number of shares of Apple available to be traded, where there is an infinite number of EUR/JPY pairs available. The stock market is open only 6.5 hours per day where currency is 24 hours per day. Stock earning and press releases can only be distributed when the market is not trading where news in currency is imbedded in each trading day.

While the indicators may give you the same information on the different charts, the expected results can differ greatly. Couple that to the differences listed above and all the other differences between the two markets, and in my mind (which is it's OWN different animal!), I see them as different animals for my purposes. Just the way I'm wired to think, I guess....
  • #119
  • Jan 21, 2019 4:27pm Jan 21, 2019 4:27pm
I was going to post about how different forex trading is to trading stocks and also what retail forex traders are up against. If you watch this video you'll understand completely. Has some great info and advice which really makes sense

Inserted Video
  • #120
  • Jan 21, 2019 5:12pm Jan 21, 2019 5:12pm
Losing since last week, so frustrating. Have never seen eur usd volatility so low.
When you see it, BET big.
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