Target: Trading naked. 
- #1,128
- Oct 12, 2006 3:07am Oct 12, 2006 3:07am
- Joined Jul 2006 | Status: Charts + PA > * | 3,251 Posts
Just saw that AUDUSD had some nice examples on 4h and had some questions for James as well concerning the TBL / TBH....
In the attached example a 4h pin is followed by a TBL...obviously the pin overpowers the TBL and pushes price up...Now I just wonder about TBL/TBH because a lot of times it just seems very random whether price will move past the low / high or just drop off after all, even if there wasn't a DBHLC/DBLHC to signal that...so how do I know the pullback is really a drop or really a pullback to push past the low/high?
The classic "which way are we going?" question remains if you want to enter on a retrace instead of a break, because I never feel confident enough to know which of the two will happen...
This one with the pin was obvious, of course...
Just wanted to show how some stuff shown in the thread can work real nice even on 4h, but I still strongly recommend using daily instead.
Thanks to James for sharing all this once again
In the attached example a 4h pin is followed by a TBL...obviously the pin overpowers the TBL and pushes price up...Now I just wonder about TBL/TBH because a lot of times it just seems very random whether price will move past the low / high or just drop off after all, even if there wasn't a DBHLC/DBLHC to signal that...so how do I know the pullback is really a drop or really a pullback to push past the low/high?
The classic "which way are we going?" question remains if you want to enter on a retrace instead of a break, because I never feel confident enough to know which of the two will happen...
This one with the pin was obvious, of course...
Just wanted to show how some stuff shown in the thread can work real nice even on 4h, but I still strongly recommend using daily instead.
Thanks to James for sharing all this once again
Trust price. Know yourself.
- #1,130
- Oct 12, 2006 7:32am Oct 12, 2006 7:32am
- Joined Feb 2006 | Status: 'Try-hard' extraordinaire... | 2,151 Posts
Hi SeekingLight
Those two pin bars you have marked out aren't very good examples.
The first one is more of a spinning top pattern (in candle speak) and indicates indecision in the market. The bulls and bears are pretty even in their market power. You would not call this a pin at all.
For a bar at the bottom of a down trend to be called a pin it would need to show obvious signs that the bulls are gaining control. i.e. Closing way into the top third of the bar at least, for starters.
The second bar I don't know how to explain, but it would look a hell of a lot better if the high was further up. If it jutted up above the previous bar more thoroughly even. ...Overall it's an ugly pin.
You really want signs that the market took one last quick gasp in the direction of the trend, and then retreated just as fast when everyone went "Oh shit! It's gone too far!! ...I'm pulling my orders!"
At first, support for the previous trend looks like continuing, and in some cases even seems to accellerate when the bar first forms ( creating a larger range than previous bars!) Then, as all support for that direction dries up, everyone realises price has gone waaay too far and they pull their supporting orders, positioning them selves or waiting for a reversal.
There are so many people agreeing that we should be going the other way now that price actually retreats back. And fast! It retreats so fast that we get all the way back to the opening price of the bar before it closes. We get a great indicator of trend exhaustion. A pin bar!
Those two pin bars you have marked out aren't very good examples.
The first one is more of a spinning top pattern (in candle speak) and indicates indecision in the market. The bulls and bears are pretty even in their market power. You would not call this a pin at all.
For a bar at the bottom of a down trend to be called a pin it would need to show obvious signs that the bulls are gaining control. i.e. Closing way into the top third of the bar at least, for starters.
The second bar I don't know how to explain, but it would look a hell of a lot better if the high was further up. If it jutted up above the previous bar more thoroughly even. ...Overall it's an ugly pin.
You really want signs that the market took one last quick gasp in the direction of the trend, and then retreated just as fast when everyone went "Oh shit! It's gone too far!! ...I'm pulling my orders!"
At first, support for the previous trend looks like continuing, and in some cases even seems to accellerate when the bar first forms ( creating a larger range than previous bars!) Then, as all support for that direction dries up, everyone realises price has gone waaay too far and they pull their supporting orders, positioning them selves or waiting for a reversal.
There are so many people agreeing that we should be going the other way now that price actually retreats back. And fast! It retreats so fast that we get all the way back to the opening price of the bar before it closes. We get a great indicator of trend exhaustion. A pin bar!
Bundy's status today: "Waiting..."
Hi SeekingLight
Those two pin bars you have marked out aren't very good examples.
The first one is more of a spinning top pattern (in candle speak) and indicates indecision in the market. The bulls and bears are pretty even in their market power. You would not call this a pin at all.
For a bar at the bottom of a down trend to be called a pin it would need to show obvious signs that the bulls are gaining control. i.e. Closing way into the top third of the bar at least, for starters.
The second bar I don't know how to explain, but it would look a hell of a lot better if the high was further up. If it jutted up above the previous bar more thoroughly even. ...Overall it's an ugly pin.
You really want signs that the market took one last quick gasp in the direction of the trend, and then retreated just as fast when everyone went "Oh shit! It's gone too far!! ...I'm pulling my orders!"
At first, support for the previous trend looks like continuing, and in some cases even seems to accellerate when the bar first forms ( creating a larger range than previous bars!) Then, as all support for that direction dries up, everyone realises price has gone waaay too far and they pull their supporting orders, positioning them selves or waiting for a reversal.
There are so many people agreeing that we should be going the other way now that price actually retreats back. And fast! It retreats so fast that we get all the way back to the opening price of the bar before it closes. We get a great indicator of trend exhaustion. A pin bar!
That last paragraph you wrote does a very good job in explaining the reason a pin bar forms. Pin bars are the greatest thing thats every happened to me! Im serious.
- #1,132
- Oct 12, 2006 7:43am Oct 12, 2006 7:43am
- Joined Feb 2006 | Status: 'Try-hard' extraordinaire... | 2,151 Posts
Yeah, for sure.
James was not pulling our legs when he said you could trade quite happily on understanding pin bars alone. When you get them in the right place they absolutely rock!
James was not pulling our legs when he said you could trade quite happily on understanding pin bars alone. When you get them in the right place they absolutely rock!
Bundy's status today: "Waiting..."
- #1,133
- Oct 12, 2006 7:52am Oct 12, 2006 7:52am
- Joined Sep 2006 | Status: Trader | 10,704 Posts
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
- #1,134
- Oct 12, 2006 10:52am Oct 12, 2006 10:52am
- Joined Jul 2006 | Status: Charts + PA > * | 3,251 Posts
Six bars to the left of the wide outside bar is a pin bar no one spoke of. I has a long tail and stands above previous prices BUT was a loser - double bar highs followed then the massive outside bar. Anyone get hit by that reversal or did you have stops set (where)?
Or is the above not a valid Pin Bar James (anybody)?
Stop is set at the bottom of the pin bar itself(correct me if I'm wrong).
(I also have a running theory that you can play the opposite side break of a pin bar, too...looking into that)
Not all pins HAVE to work, especially not on a small timeframe like 4h.
And agreed Bundyraider, the bars I labeled as PB weren't good examples, but to quote James "not all pins are created equal"
They sometimes can be quite corrupted but sometimes only due to a bad "cutoff" timewise. I.e. the phenomenon you described(moving too far then retreating in panic) can be seen on a smaller timeframe quite well, but doesn't reflect that cleanly on a higher one. I always try to "zoom in" on events when checking out pins and other price action to see "where we are" and "what really happened".
Trust price. Know yourself.
- #1,136
- Oct 12, 2006 4:27pm Oct 12, 2006 4:27pm
- Joined Jul 2006 | Status: Charts + PA > * | 3,251 Posts
...never thought it would come to this...
From a DBLHC on 4h we now have the same on daily and if we keep our levels it's gonna be the same picture on weekly, too.....Roughly on the 50/61.8%, too, this might go a bit more than just 60 pips, and even if not, it's already made more than its stop size...
Real shame I was asleep when the 4h DBLHC occured
Chart attached
From a DBLHC on 4h we now have the same on daily and if we keep our levels it's gonna be the same picture on weekly, too.....Roughly on the 50/61.8%, too, this might go a bit more than just 60 pips, and even if not, it's already made more than its stop size...
Real shame I was asleep when the 4h DBLHC occured
Chart attached
Trust price. Know yourself.
- #1,138
- Oct 13, 2006 3:38am Oct 13, 2006 3:38am
- Joined Jul 2006 | Status: Charts + PA > * | 3,251 Posts
Trust price. Know yourself.
