Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade | Page 2207 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

"Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade." Summary 37 replies

Learning to trade with harmonics 11 replies

Time for Change - Pivots & Harmonics to freedom 67 replies

180 reasons to trade Harmonics and Patterns 13 replies

Group Trading based on Elliott wave and Harmonics 0 replies

Attachments: Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade
Exit Attachments

Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #44,121
  • Dec 11, 2018 11:51am Dec 11, 2018 11:51am
Quoting Pair-me-up
{quote} Mr. Pip will have a live stream next week. Maybe you can save your screen shot and ask him at that time. Also, from your chart.... what situational awareness are you using besides structural analysis and fibonacci numbers. By the way.. I am terrible at fibonacci. I don't have them mastered yet. But trying.
Well, I was looking at a 5000 volume chart and the expectation there was for a NSL...but I try not to mix orderflows. Instead I try to pick the orderflow that I'm going to trade for the day and stick with it. Lately that's the most immediate orderflow on a 233 tick chart because I don't feel comfortable risking more than 70-80 points.. even that is overkill. It would be nice to trade the 34 tick chart like Nikster but I can't keep up with that.
  • #44,122
  • Dec 11, 2018 2:47pm Dec 11, 2018 2:47pm
Quoting x3m-PippiN
I'm having a lot of trouble with those big moves.. on the 233 tick the expectation was for a NSH... there wasn't a 38.2 correction on the immediate OF so I didn't want to enter a short. Very frustrating to sit on my hands for a second day in a row. A break below the lime green line would suggest a change in immediate orderflow but since the correction hadn't reached the 38,2 for me this wasn't a valid change of orderflows. Am I missing something ? {image}
Just my comment; I was looking at it as you did, but after the break of the green line on your chart, I switched to the more immediate orderflow. Of course it is easy to say with hindsight, but to avoid situations like this where I dont get the 38 correction or huge swings I cant afford, I change the orderflow. You said your expectation was a NSL in the higher time frame. So was mine and I tried to align in that case in the smaller orderflow instead of waiting for the correction I did not expect to happen. Hope this helps!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (89 Tick) 2018_12_11 (15_41_14).png Size: 54 KB
  • #44,123
  • Dec 11, 2018 2:58pm Dec 11, 2018 2:58pm
Very seriously considering trading the mini-nikkei 225 from 8pm EST until around 11pm EST since I work a fulltime J.O.B. during the day. Has anyone else in a similar situation looked into this? My research so far looks promising in terms of the nikkei's activity during these hours.
Process over outcome.
  • #44,124
  • Dec 11, 2018 6:54pm Dec 11, 2018 6:54pm
Quoting x3m-PippiN
{quote} Well, I was looking at a 5000 volume chart and the expectation there was for a NSL...but I try not to mix orderflows. Instead I try to pick the orderflow that I'm going to trade for the day and stick with it. Lately that's the most immediate orderflow on a 233 tick chart because I don't feel comfortable risking more than 70-80 points.. even that is overkill. It would be nice to trade the 34 tick chart like Nikster but I can't keep up with that.
Why would you need to risk 70-80 points.

I still have a lot to learn obviously. I usually look at the larger order flow and look at the some of the smaller tick charts for entry. Yes, my entries are not that great yet. However, I am working on getting in on the larger order flow with 30 or less points of risk. That trade that I took last night my time.. I entered on the 89 tick chart and price only went against me about 6 or 7 points. My goal was to catch that big drop.

Any ways, is there anything else you could have done differently?

I will see what I can learn from your chart(s).

Have a great day.
Luck has no place in trading. Leave that for the poker table.
  • #44,125
  • Dec 11, 2018 10:50pm Dec 11, 2018 10:50pm
Quoting x3m-PippiN
I'm having a lot of trouble with those big moves.. on the 233 tick the expectation was for a NSH... there wasn't a 38.2 correction on the immediate OF so I didn't want to enter a short. Very frustrating to sit on my hands for a second day in a row. A break below the lime green line would suggest a change in immediate orderflow but since the correction hadn't reached the 38,2 for me this wasn't a valid change of orderflows. Am I missing something ? {image}

Hi x3m , are you in the Discord group?

i has a long on the NSH at lower range price , i enter on a 3 1-1 completion. then price proceed to create a 100% correction
next price goes up 1-1 at structure and goes down all the way.

I would say whenever we are at Near Structure or trading into structure , i will have a rule thats entry price will be atleast 50% , then i will trail more early than normal , as price might not even goes to retest the high again.

I think there was no right or wrong , as we trade whatever signal we can see , not forget to mention alot other are trading the 144t / 89t. what they can see might differ with 233tick.

I am trading with the demo account , no problem to take bigger loss trade , but most of them who trade real account will not risk such big loss ( >50points ), thus they will look at 144t for smaller risk trade , and i can see they seem to work out better , i will switch to 144t for today.

not sure if this rule can help , the " italic " word are the point here.
  • #44,126
  • Dec 12, 2018 1:51am Dec 12, 2018 1:51am
Quoting Pair-me-up
{quote} Why would you need to risk 70-80 points. I still have a lot to learn obviously. I usually look at the larger order flow and look at the some of the smaller tick charts for entry. Yes, my entries are not that great yet. However, I am working on getting in on the larger order flow with 30 or less points of risk. That trade that I took last night my time.. I entered on the 89 tick chart and price only went against me about 6 or 7 points. My goal was to catch that big drop. Any ways, is there anything else you could have done differently? I...
My friend, you are not trading exactly the way Damian has taught us. You enter on a smaller time frame with a stop for that time frame and chase the target from a bigger time frame...that's a no no in Damian's books. Kudos for going your own way and having your own trading style but I've decided that I'm going to have almost the exact same trade plan as Damian and I'm trying to remove as much subjectivity from it as possible.

Like I previously stated the expectation was for a NSH on the 233 tick and even on the 89 tick. The swing was huge and there wasn't a correction to the 38.2 fib nowhere inside the swing so I could trade the 89 tick at least. Now I knew that I could try and trade the possible correction to the downside but that meant that I was going against the main orderflow which I don't want to do.

I saw some people here that had profitable short trades and I was wondering if I had missed something or they were consciously going against the main OF.

Quoting 6288monkey
{quote} Hi x3m , are you in the Discord group? i has a long on the NSH at lower range price , i enter on a 3 1-1 completion. then price proceed to create a 100% correction next price goes up 1-1 at structure and goes down all the way. I would say whenever we are at Near Structure or trading into structure , i will have a rule thats entry price will be atleast 50% , then i will trail more early than normal , as price might not even goes to retest the high again. I think there was no right or wrong , as we trade whatever signal we can see , not forget...
Yes, I'm in the discord group but I'm not active there. Well, for yesterday's session in the beginning it didn't matter if you were looking at the 233 tick or 89 tick..the expectation was still for a NSH. Now you can see on one of my previous posts the chart where price broke the lime green line that's where one can ASSUME that orderflow change occurred.
  • #44,127
  • Dec 12, 2018 2:58am Dec 12, 2018 2:58am
{quote} Yes, I'm in the discord group but I'm not active there. Well, for yesterday's session in the beginning it didn't matter if you were looking at the 233 tick or 89 tick..the expectation was still for a NSH. Now you can see on one of my previous posts the chart where price broke the lime green line that's where one can ASSUME that orderflow change occurred.[/quote]

Well , then possibly the strength and weakness reading of the order flow could be the missing thing

If you aint taking Long for the NSH which signal does occur , then you should be going Short as signal occur as well , but you dint take either one.
I think go Demo was a good way as YM are really expensive when losses occur.

there is alot order flow that can be traded , dont stick to just 1 , for example the NSH expectation yesterday , you can trade the smaller swing on the correction down , as long the expectation / target are realistic , like you are not expecting the NSH to failed , but until price has a 100% correction then maybe you can start to looking for short. there is alot of way to manage your trade once you read it correctly

I have the same problem as you , i have 1 point ( NSH expectation ) then my trade all goes to this point which sort of tunnel vision , then i miss out other info , the chart information need to keep updating by reading it , the worse that i did was i double trade on this point , example deep correction i go long , then another signal maybe 1 to 1 completion to the down side , i have another long , then price failed this 1 point NSH expectation , i loss 2x on 1 point.

alot of time i see price has reach exhaustion area , then i start finding deep correction for continuation or weak in order flow to trade the opposite like 1 to 1 completion or immediate order flow , but most of the time i will failed , then when i start to say to myself well this market was not going correct anytime , then i start to trade continuation , price will then correct. so i think the best was stick to order flow until it failed. but at exhaustion/structure area i will still apply this rule that entry atleast 50% and trail earlier.
  • #44,128
  • Dec 12, 2018 4:31am Dec 12, 2018 4:31am
Quoting x3m-PippiN
{quote} Well, I was looking at a 5000 volume chart and the expectation there was for a NSL...but I try not to mix orderflows. Instead I try to pick the orderflow that I'm going to trade for the day and stick with it. Lately that's the most immediate orderflow on a 233 tick chart because I don't feel comfortable risking more than 70-80 points.. even that is overkill. It would be nice to trade the 34 tick chart like Nikster but I can't keep up with that.
Hello PippiN,

when these big moves happen where we do not get a correction to the 38.2 on the 144/233t chart the orderflows tend to blend into eachother. As you said the overall expectation was for a NSL. With the last NSH that price made in the immediate orderflow it also reached the 78.6 retracement of the main swing in the overall OF.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (1597 Tick) 2018_12_12.png Size: 63 KB

This is where I get cautious with taking trades against the overall OF. I decided to switch to the 89t chart and trade the very immediate price swings in line with my expectation of what price is going to do.
I don't have a rule that tells me to switch orderflows other than entries getting too expensive so I can't tell you when it's a good idea or not. Depends on how price approaches and reacts to certain areas of interest and if you can trust your analysis.

In one of the older live streams you can see Damian switch orderflows, after price made a NSL and never corrected to the 38.
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=11599320#post11599320
  • #44,129
  • Dec 12, 2018 5:20am Dec 12, 2018 5:20am
Quoting x3m-PippiN
{quote} My friend, you are not trading exactly the way Damian has taught us. You enter on a smaller time frame with a stop for that time frame and chase the target from a bigger time frame...that's a no no in Damian's books. Kudos for going your own way and having your own trading style but I've decided that I'm going to have almost the exact same trade plan as Damian and I'm trying to remove as much subjectivity from it as possible. Like I previously stated the expectation was for a NSH on the 233 tick and even on the 89 tick. The swing was huge...
You are correct in that I have not yet learned to trade exactly like Damian. My trading style that I am trying to work on is very simple. Limit risks and make points. I don't really understand what you mean be chasing price. Chasing price is actually against one of my rules. If you mean to say that I trade the larger order flow for wealth building and look for entries on the smaller tick charts to more accurately time my entries to limit risk and get huge points, then I am guilty as charged, my friend. I really don't understand Damian's trading plan 100% Will you make a pdf of Damian's trade plan along with the logical reasons behind those rules, so those of us that want to learn from him can trade like you who know his trade plan very well?
Thanks in advanced for your help.
Luck has no place in trading. Leave that for the poker table.
  • #44,130
  • Dec 12, 2018 5:42am Dec 12, 2018 5:42am
Quoting Pair-me-up
{quote} You are correct in that I have not yet learned to trade exactly like Damian. My trading style that I am trying to work on is very simple. Limit risks and make points. I don't really understand what you mean be chasing price. Chasing price is actually against one of my rules. If you mean to say that I trade the larger order flow for wealth building and look for entries on the smaller tick charts to more accurately time my entries to limit risk and get huge points, then I am guilty as charged, my friend. I really don't understand Damian's...
I won't make such a file because there is a file with his plan and all the logical reasons are explained multiple times in his streams.
By chasing price I meant that you use smaller orderflow to put your stop and the larger orderflow for a target... that's against what Damian has taught. Can it work? Most likely, yes! Am I sick and tired of bending the rules instead of following an objective plan laid out from Damian...Yes!
  • #44,131
  • Dec 12, 2018 6:37am Dec 12, 2018 6:37am
Quoting x3m-PippiN
{quote} I won't make such a file because there is a file with his plan and all the logical reasons are explained multiple times in his streams. By chasing price I meant that you use smaller orderflow to put your stop and the larger orderflow for a target... that's against what Damian has taught. Can it work? Most likely, yes! Am I sick and tired of bending the rules instead of following an objective plan laid out from Damian...Yes!
Hey Pippin. I have here 2 the same charts but 1 is the 34tick and the other is the 144tick. As you can see based on the white lines I had a expectationfaillure (red line) but since the more clearer swing was not broken and had difficulty with breaking the 61.8 at structure I felled pretty confident to take a short even if it was against the OF I am trading. Then I had a nice 1:1 which extended even a little but I was to slow to lock in more. Then price come up and made a nice rotation at structure and arround the 61.8 also (not drawn but you can see price retraced around 2/3. So why didn't I took that one? The grey zone was major structure which you can perfectly see on the 144tick. I believe this is what Damian also means with situation awareness. One other point to let this one pass by was that I didn't expect a deep correction.

This is the way I handle trading the short term combined with the longer term. I hope it helps
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (144 Tick) 2018_12_10 (13_26_36).png Size: 49 KB
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (34 Tick) 2018_12_10 (13_26_29).png Size: 54 KB
  • #44,132
  • Dec 12, 2018 9:18am Dec 12, 2018 9:18am
Long on the 89 tick chart
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (89 Tick).png Size: 52 KB
Luck has no place in trading. Leave that for the poker table.
  • #44,133
  • Dec 13, 2018 2:33am Dec 13, 2018 2:33am
Could anyone share the discord link?
  • #44,134
  • Dec 13, 2018 3:10am Dec 13, 2018 3:10am
Quoting siimduud
Could anyone share the discord link?
Hi!
Check this link: https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=10647503#post10647503
  • #44,135
  • Dec 13, 2018 9:15am Dec 13, 2018 9:15am
Good evening / morning all.. I took this trade on the 89 tick chart. I am really starting to enjoy this tick chart as a valid tool in my money making tool box.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (89 Tick).png Size: 36 KB
Luck has no place in trading. Leave that for the poker table.
  • #44,136
  • Edited 12:03pm Dec 13, 2018 11:18am | Edited 12:03pm
Quoting Pair-me-up
Good evening / morning all.. I took this trade on the 89 tick chart. I am really starting to enjoy this tick chart as a valid tool in my money making tool box. {image}
Good day,

where your entry was?

Is it okay to trade longer term trades on 89? Do You use it to trail immediate structure?
  • #44,137
  • Dec 13, 2018 12:41pm Dec 13, 2018 12:41pm
What a day, my expectations were never reached!!!

First trade was really bad, I took the trade with momentum increase, projection increase, depth decrease on the last leg down and stop loss in front of structure.

I read the market wrong today, I was lucky to finish green.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (89 Tick) 2018_12_13 (14_57_37).png Size: 69 KB
  • #44,138
  • Dec 13, 2018 10:01pm Dec 13, 2018 10:01pm
Quoting Bogdanlinee
{quote} Good day, where your entry was? Is it okay to trade longer term trades on 89? Do You use it to trail immediate structure?
My entry was actually quite a bit lower than what you see on the screen. I was just adding more positions in areas that I felt comfortable with. Ninja trader 8 moves the entries up as positions are added. The entry position on my chart would correlate with the last position I entered.

As far as your question about it being o.k. to trade longer term trades on the 89......I never gave it much thought. I figure if it is going up, then it is going up. Price goes in the same direction on all the charts. So, if price is going up strong on the larger orderflow and you use the 89 tick chart to time your entry to negate a smaller stop loss, thus less risk, doesn't logic tell you that the larger order will keep going up or down in the same direction?

I think a trailing system should be based on a traders target goals. An individual has to decide what they are comfortable with.

Currently I am a demo trader. So, of course I will test out different theories that I have for technical analysis. The current account, that I posted on last night my time was a $2000 USD account that I started a few weeks ago and as of last night was up to over $75000 USD. I reset it this morning my time, since I will start trading the new contract. I probably wont' trade again until next year. I will say one thing.... I see that there are really amazing traders on this thread such as Evocpr19, JayTrader, Bmdenton23, etc that are much better than me and that are actually trading live. Seeing them trade and learning from their charts have helped me the most on this thread in my journey to learn more.

Mr. Pip teaches us the basic building blocks of a workable system and how we can use those building blocks to build a successful trading system of our own. All of the great traders such as Mr.Pip and the ones that I mentioned, etc greatly demonstrate that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

As for myself... there are some areas that I have a very strong lack of confidence in. Thus why I am not currently trading live yet. Not to mention I need to save up more capital to fund my account.

I suggest reading the books from Scott Carney and Lance Beggs. Read about Japanese candles. Most people on this thread use Japanese candle charts.

I wish you much great fortune in your trading endeavors. Have a very merry christ mass and a happy new year.
Luck has no place in trading. Leave that for the poker table.
  • #44,139
  • Dec 14, 2018 7:02am Dec 14, 2018 7:02am
Quoting Pair-me-up
{quote} My entry was actually quite a bit lower than what you see on the screen. I was just adding more positions in areas that I felt comfortable with. Ninja trader 8 moves the entries up as positions are added. The entry position on my chart would correlate with the last position I entered. As far as your question about it being o.k. to trade longer term trades on the 89......I never gave it much thought. I figure if it is going up, then it is going up. Price goes in the same direction on all the charts. So, if price is going up strong on the...
Hi Pair-me-up. Excellent results. I have been demo trading as well (but the mini-nikkei 225) after trading forex live for a couple years. I have definitely noticed a huge difference in my emotions when trading the demo account. I am able to follow the rules of Damian's trade plan to a T and taking money out of the market has felt like taking candy from a baby. My worry is that it will be much more difficult once I go live. I think the #1 thing is to just follow the rules with the same discipline I have had with demo where there is no FOMO or fear or losing money. Do you or anyone else have any insights? $2k to $75k over the course of weeks is truely a great accomplishment but do you think that level of success will translate to live? Are there things you did on the demo that you would not be willing to do with your hard earned money?
Process over outcome.
  • #44,140
  • Dec 14, 2018 7:24am Dec 14, 2018 7:24am
Quoting Chrysmere
{quote} Hi Pair-me-up. Excellent results. I have been demo trading as well (but the mini-nikkei 225) after trading forex live for a couple years. I have definitely noticed a huge difference in my emotions when trading the demo account. I am able to follow the rules of Damian's trade plan to a T and taking money out of the market has felt like taking candy from a baby. My worry is that it will be much more difficult once I go live. I think the #1 thing is to just follow the rules with the same discipline I have had with demo where there is no FOMO...

It sounds like we have similar backgrounds. I traded forex Xau and Oil. I did read the Scott Carney books and looked for threads talking about harmonics...that is how I found this thread. I don't have Mr.Pip's system down to a T yet.

Since we have both traded live.. pulling the trigger is not a scary thing. If a person can't make money on demo, then they would most likely lose their real account. Of course there are some things that I would not do on a real account that I do on demo. However, that is an issue of money management. As far as the technicals, they should be the same. I started trading smaller demo accounts, to push my self harder mentally.

I figure that if I have the correct capital then when I go back to live, just tell myself it is demo...with the correct money management of course. I agree with you about following the rules. Knowing how to trade is great, however, without the right account size and money management, I feel that the emotions will be too strong.

For me... the larger the account, the less emotions. If you had a one or two million dollar account and you just needed to trade enough for your daily living expenses , then I imagine have all that money on hand would make you feel like... losing a few thousand dollars here and there were no big deal, because you have enough money to play the technical probabilities without worry financially. Therefore, I think it is important to trade wisely and build up a large enough account to give us that mental relaxation to the point where we can tell others learning... don't think about the money... just think about the points you will make.. ha ha ha.

One think I think is important.. focus on what you will lose and not win. Then you will make more money.

Also, I have had more than a few weeks where I traded with zero losses. I think it is just a fluke.. so I am trying to build my system to be a bit more stronger and less fluke like feeling.

Anyways.... when you ask for insights, what insights are you asking for?
Luck has no place in trading. Leave that for the poker table.
13 traders viewing now