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"Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade." Summary 37 replies

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Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #44,061
  • Dec 4, 2018 11:51pm Dec 4, 2018 11:51pm
Quoting evocpr19
{quote} Do you have on your chart the right contract loaded ? e.g. 12-18 YM (you can see that on the posted chart of bmdenton23) Can you specify a bit more what you mean with "...nothing appears...". I assume that you are connected to a data feed and that you have an empty chart window open.
Hi,

I have now swapped over to a different platform and all is fine.

Thanks so much for all of your help everyone. Looking forward to contributing as best I can.
  • #44,062
  • Dec 5, 2018 1:54am Dec 5, 2018 1:54am
Revisit this video - Supply and Demand

I think this was the missing part for me as i trade the forex market

Forex market tend to Range or Bounce off structure to structure when compare to Stock Market or Indexes where price just goes in 1 direction
You can found this by comparing EurUsd monthly chart vs YM monthly chart
I dont mean Indexes has no ranging market but when compare to Forex , it was way lesser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoAtdvVjRtQ
  • #44,063
  • Dec 5, 2018 3:35am Dec 5, 2018 3:35am
Quoting Hansl
Held on to that short since yesterday. Was expecting price to reach at least 25500/25480. A lot of pain, but it worked out. Price even traded far below those levels. Got taken out on the trail with + 299 today. {image}
This is the short version of your trade (just kidding), although the trade as been screwed by myself. TP would have been hit. If price would have come a bit higher after I got taken out, I would have re-entered with one entry. However, did not get the chance, so I let it run witout me for the rest.

Anyway, you did a nice trade. I do not like to hold that long trades.

PS: Just wanted to show that you can have big result in a short (screwed) trade.
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  • #44,064
  • Dec 5, 2018 4:09am Dec 5, 2018 4:09am
Quoting evocpr19
{quote} This is the short version of your trade (just kidding), although the trade as been screwed by myself. TP would have been hit. If price would have come a bit higher after I got taken out, I would have re-entered with one entry. However, did not get the chance, so I let it run witout me for the rest. Anyway, you did a nice trade. I do not like to hold that long trades. PS: Just wanted to show that you can have big result in a short (screwed) trade. {image}
Well, I screwed up some things as well besides my entry. Actually I was targeting a projection from my reference leg from Monday. Price came into TP overnight while I could not trail and I decided to stay in and to target the next expectation and the levels I was expecting price to go.

I should have taken the first swing down - exit; renter on the next entry on Tuesday and I would go out with two perfect trades and more points. Well, next time.

Of course the results will get bigger the more positions (contracts) I add. Currently I am trading at max. 2.

I also do not like to hold positions for long, it is painful, at least for me. I explained my reasons regarding my last trade above.

I know you love the 89T and the more immediate orderflow, but somehow I get bullied most of the times with back to back structure fails when I am trading it. Thats why I am not focusing on every immediate swing.

May I ask you what your trailing rules look like? I sometimes have problems to determine if it is me that is scared locking in some points too early or just staying ahead of price and protecting the trade.

Anyway, thanks for showing the "short version", appreciate any input I can get! Nice trade!
  • #44,065
  • Dec 5, 2018 4:18am Dec 5, 2018 4:18am
Quoting Hansl
{quote} Well, I screwed up some things as well besides my entry. Actually I was targeting a projection from my reference leg from Monday. Price came into TP overnight while I could not trail and I decided to stay in and to target the next expectation and the levels I was expecting price to go. I should have taken the first swing down - exit; renter on the next entry on Tuesday and I would go out with two perfect trades and more points. Well, next time. Of course the results will get bigger the more positions (contracts) I add. Currently I am trading...
I am the last person on earth to ask about trailing.
This is still a grey zone and for me dependent on my number of entries and the location of my entries and time of trading (close to end, I let less room for things). I know, trailing should be independent from lotsize and number of entries, but easier said than done.
  • #44,066
  • Dec 5, 2018 4:25am Dec 5, 2018 4:25am
Quoting evocpr19
{quote} I am the last person on earth to ask about trailing. This is still a grey zone and for me dependent on my number of entries and the location of my entries and time of trading (close to end, I let less room for things). I know, trailing should be independent from lotsize and number of entries, but easier said than done.
Easier said than done. Applies to a lot of things in trading. Anyway, I got your point!
  • #44,067
  • Edited 7:29am Dec 5, 2018 7:13am | Edited 7:29am
Hi:
CADJPY H4
Price @ D point of a Cypher And C point of a Gartely Pattern and of course C point of an ABCD....., Expectation : Long..??
I am not a fan of the patterns ,except, ABCD and 3 Drives...,but let's see...
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  • #44,068
  • Dec 5, 2018 8:35am Dec 5, 2018 8:35am
Again no trades today...? Come on.

"National Day of Mourning for President George H. W. Bush; Wednesday, December 5, 2018"
  • #44,069
  • Dec 5, 2018 8:40am Dec 5, 2018 8:40am
Quoting Hansl
Again no trades today...? Come on. "National Day of Mourning for President George H. W. Bush; Wednesday, December 5, 2018"
I completely forgot. Explains why my trade just froze at NY open time.
Blessed is the one who takes refuge in Him.
  • #44,070
  • Dec 5, 2018 9:18am Dec 5, 2018 9:18am
Quoting parviz1953
Hi: CADJPY H4 Price @ D point of a Cypher And C point of a Gartely Pattern and of course C point of an ABCD....., Expectation : Long..?? I am not a fan of the patterns ,except, ABCD and 3 Drives...,but let's see... {image}
Failed.....
  • #44,071
  • Dec 5, 2018 1:17pm Dec 5, 2018 1:17pm
Quoting evocpr19
{quote} This is the short version of your trade (just kidding), although the trade as been screwed by myself. TP would have been hit. If price would have come a bit higher after I got taken out, I would have re-entered with one entry. However, did not get the chance, so I let it run witout me for the rest. Anyway, you did a nice trade. I do not like to hold that long trades. PS: Just wanted to show that you can have big result in a short (screwed) trade. {image}
Good day, Evo and Guys

Why did you manage that 25329 is the top of the swing and 25033 is the bottom? Why it wasn't 25187-25033 if we talk about short term order flow?

I'm asking because I mislead myself with 38.2 retracement. If my rules said that 38.2 retracement is the proper correction and price cant reach 38.2 during the whole session what should I do? Should I manage that swing is corrected when it wasn't reach 38.2?

Looking for your comments, Traders
  • #44,072
  • Edited 4:20pm Dec 5, 2018 3:10pm | Edited 4:20pm
Quoting Bogdanlinee
{quote} Good day, Evo and Guys Why did you manage that 25329 is the top of the swing and 25033 is the bottom? Why it wasn't 25187-25033 if we talk about short term order flow? I'm asking because I mislead myself with 38.2 retracement. If my rules said that 38.2 retracement is the proper correction and price cant reach 38.2 during the whole session what should I do? Should I manage that swing is corrected when it wasn't reach 38.2? Looking for your comments, Traders
When you look at the context of price what happened the first hours of NY session, price accelerated on the second 1:1 (when you look at 233t) and overshooted the "1" for extended targets. Hence, it makes for me no sense to start cutting legs into pieces (after that accelerating move), so I look for the clearest high and low, where price is likely to find resistance in order to then follow the expectation again of a NSL.

PS: Even if you consider the smaller swings and the corresponding break of structure, you could have made profit (I would have trailed in the upper area before my short entry, because I would expect that bears are likely to enter) by going long (small yellow lines in my chart).

With regard regard to what you should do (if I understood you right), I can only tell you that after having taken the 1:1 at the start of NY session, I simply did nothing. Why, because I simply do not jump onto extended moves (made bad experience with that) + I did not saw any other good reason to do anything. So I simply wait until I have more clearer picture.

Hope this helps.
  • #44,073
  • Dec 5, 2018 11:02pm Dec 5, 2018 11:02pm
Quoting Bogdanlinee
{quote} Good day, Evo and Guys Why did you manage that 25329 is the top of the swing and 25033 is the bottom? Why it wasn't 25187-25033 if we talk about short term order flow? I'm asking because I mislead myself with 38.2 retracement. If my rules said that 38.2 retracement is the proper correction and price cant reach 38.2 during the whole session what should I do? Should I manage that swing is corrected when it wasn't reach 38.2? Looking for your comments, Traders

Bogdanlinee , i agree with your view , but i am not proftable yet , so Evo must be right .

the swing actually reach 38.20 ( just right there ) , and projected to 127.20 ( what a perfect swing )
then it failed , but yet Evo short when expectation was NSH , maybe he look at it as a 1 to 1 completion as a confluence.

1 more thing i would like to add was Structure if you look at 1597tick chart , 25377-25209 was structure area where price possibly cant break or meet resistance , i found these are strong enemy to expectation , you should be aware when trading at these zone. ( look more left also some structure there , very strong resistance level )

Currently price goes lower strong , and reach previous low structure area , so be aware when shorting.
  • #44,074
  • Dec 6, 2018 12:31am Dec 6, 2018 12:31am
Quoting 6288monkey
{quote} Bogdanlinee , i agree with your view , but i am not proftable yet , so Evo must be right . the swing actually reach 38.20 ( just right there ) , and projected to 127.20 ( what a perfect swing ) then it failed , but yet Evo short when expectation was NSH , maybe he look at it as a 1 to 1 completion as a confluence. 1 more thing i would like to add was Structure if you look at 1597tick chart , 25377-25209 was structure area where price possibly cant break or meet resistance , i found these are strong enemy to expectation , you should be aware...
In my view it is not wrong to take the smaller swing as a reference swing with the expectation of a NSH. I was aware on that (see small yellow lines) and I entered only when I saw weakness of bulls, since I was confident (because of the overall context) that I will get the time to manage my trade (finally I screwed it, but ok that is life), even if price would have run for the small completion up (in this case I would have been for while on the pain train).

Hope this helps.
  • #44,075
  • Edited 1:23am Dec 6, 2018 1:05am | Edited 1:23am
Quoting evocpr19
{quote} In my view it is not wrong to take the smaller swing as a reference swing with the expectation of a NSH. I was aware on that (see small yellow lines) and I entered only when I saw weakness of bulls, since I was confident (because of the overall context) that I will get the time to manage my trade (finally I screwed it, but ok that is life), even if price would have run for the small completion up (in this case I would have been for while on the pain train). Hope this helps.

Yes , sure it help , the problem for me was i always follow expectation , and when we trade against expectation we are at the 30% , thus i am careful not to trade against expectation but then the results was i am actually trade against expectation haha , hope you get what i mean shall i long at the swing you go short.

Perhaps positioning was the point , your short entry was near structure + 1 to 1 completion + exhaustion point of NSH swing.
and i can see from your TP you are actually not trading the NSL expectation which play out later on. ( i could be wrong as i dont know how you manage , manage has alot of way )

anyways , thanks and nice trade.

Edit : i am watching this live session again , i think awareness of the situation are critically important, Mr.Pip say very clearly at here , i can understand more now compare to last time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW3ga0rCYx4
  • #44,076
  • Edited 2:34am Dec 6, 2018 1:29am | Edited 2:34am
Quoting 6288monkey
{quote} Yes , sure it help , the problem for me was i always follow expectation , and when we trade against expectation we are at the 30% , thus i am careful not to trade against expectation but then the results was i am actually trade against expectation haha , hope you get what i mean shall i long at the swing you go short. Perhaps positioning was the point , your short entry was near structure + 1 to 1 completion + exhaustion point of NSH swing. and i can see from your TP you are actually not trading the NSL expectation which play out later on....
Expectation is dependent on which orderflow you trade, implying also different SL and TP. So to say "against expectation" is a bit misleading. I normally tend to more trade the immediate orderflow. But I saw a better case on looking for shorts.
Mr. Pip entered in past trades on long term "long" and on short term trading "short". This I cannot do, since only 1 account and even id I could, I would not do that because I cannot manage that in my brain (would have the impression to trade against myself).

Anyway, I wish you many pips, ticks, dollars,...

PS: I like these type of discussions (even if someone disagrees with my opinion; legitime I am not Jesus and I do also mistakes). Unfortunately, the thread is these days not very full of life.
  • #44,077
  • Dec 6, 2018 4:53am Dec 6, 2018 4:53am
I will also add my two cents since this topic with what swing to trade bothered me for long. I attached one screenshot and I hope my paint skills are worth posting. No access to my charts atm, sorry.

black line = price, blue = immediate structure, green= overall strucuture - clear high/low and the yellow lines how I would align with my trades. Red line obviously is structure fail in the immediate.

You need to identify where the clearest low/high was achieved and what the overall structure is doing. My results were not satisfying to me in times where I went through the chart and waited for the 38 correction to determine if it was a "clear" swing. Of course, I dont like to have subjectivity in my trading, but it really depends on the situation.
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  • #44,078
  • Dec 6, 2018 6:10am Dec 6, 2018 6:10am
Morning All, For what its worth Here is my longer term look that I will be following/trading into the New year, Until the expectations fail of course.
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Always Learning
  • #44,079
  • Dec 6, 2018 6:31am Dec 6, 2018 6:31am
Quoting JayTrader
Morning All, For what its worth Here is my longer term look that I will be following/trading into the New year, Until the expectations fail of course. {image}
Interesting view, thanks for sharing!

May I ask you from which points you created the green line (the one at current price level)? I am expecting a bounce to the upside into those areas as well, but who knows. Market is crazy right now.
  • #44,080
  • Dec 6, 2018 6:35am Dec 6, 2018 6:35am
Quoting Hansl
{quote} Interesting view, thanks for sharing! May I ask you from which points you created the green line (the one at current price level)? I am expecting a bounce to the upside into those areas as well, but who knows. Market is crazy right now.
The Green Line is Just my general idea of price movement at the moment not based on a 1-1 relationship, all others lines are I will get more accurate on the smaller Time frames as I trade,
Always Learning
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