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Pro traders who do not use SL, What about Black Swans?

  • #301
  • Nov 20, 2018 6:19pm Nov 20, 2018 6:19pm
Lying comes as naturally to dufas as breathing. It's impossible to tell the difference between his rectum and his mouth.

It's a bad case of wannabe trader turn loser turn denial turn faker
  • #302
  • Nov 20, 2018 6:40pm Nov 20, 2018 6:40pm
do not think you are all humiliating each other, in reality you are disgracing only yourself.
breath. take a break.
As Above, So Below
  • #303
  • Nov 20, 2018 6:44pm Nov 20, 2018 6:44pm
You're right. Going to clean it up. I couldn't cleanup the last one, the keyboard gets stuck every time I try....!
  • #304
  • Nov 20, 2018 7:29pm Nov 20, 2018 7:29pm
Quoting EcoTrader
You're right. Going to clean it up. I couldn't cleanup the last one, the keyboard gets stuck every time I try....!
Dukas is a very good troll! In forums, trolls are part of the Eco System. They provoke people into posting, while they themselves add no content. FF tolerates them because they generate posts, which in turn generates traffic, which is good for FF because they can charge more to their advertisers.

So I think Dukas is doing a great job!

BTW, the way to kill a troll is to starve it, just sayin.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #305
  • Nov 21, 2018 2:19am Nov 21, 2018 2:19am
Quoting Ray9
So we are all curious now since that incident fof 3 pips difference https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=10622100 Are you trading on DEMO now? Or you are happy with your Bucket shop troll for now! P.s I will reply you only when I have time..Kisses for now
Well, since that 3 pips was the high for that account before price reversed... I'd say my live trading is more than happy.(It was a 10 pip move actually but since you seem to know nothing about trading or that specific exotic...)

How's your DEMO trading going buckyboy?
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #306
  • Nov 21, 2018 4:42am Nov 21, 2018 4:42am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} but SL is in this case margin call, just simple same. all what is exactly doing same kind of trade then a SL trade, is a SL, thatwhy also a hedge is nothing then a SL.... even options are SL, at least for a special timeframe until the expiration date. when you are smaller trader, this things like margin call are simple possible, because you are no professional trader and dont have to pay negative balance... so this will work... and when you bring only very small parts of your money in side all accounts, you dont risk more then 1-5% of the...
Thanks for your reply. So If I'm a small retail trader, this can still work, correct? Then what is your suggestion about Pro' players' defensive mechanism? I heard about the delta vector system they are using, sound fancy to me, but I have no idea how does it work and how to implement them on my trading : D
  • #307
  • Nov 21, 2018 6:11am Nov 21, 2018 6:11am
Quoting VuTrongAn
{quote} Thanks for your reply. So If I'm a small retail trader, this can still work, correct? Then what is your suggestion about Pro' players' defensive mechanism? I heard about the delta vector system they are using, sound fancy to me, but I have no idea how does it work and how to implement them on my trading : D

Don't bother asking Dukas, he isn't a trader, he is a faker and will only give you bad information. Professional traders don't use margin call. If you want the best protection against black swan look at options where you have limited exposure. Else look for a broker with guaranteed stops. Else accept the risk and avoid instruments that would be more subject to this like a central bank having a peg to another currency (Chf for example)
  • #308
  • Nov 21, 2018 7:41am Nov 21, 2018 7:41am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} "Professional traders", by definition of that title, have a risk mitigation strategy, which means that they are aware of risks and have strategized for them. For professionals, a Black Swan event is more a risk for their broker than for the trader. Most important to professionals, we view a Black Swan event, and all other sudden moves in the market, as an opportunity to make money, as long as your trading strategy is based on the long term view of the market. Look at Brexit or the SNB, and read the long term charts. Once the events passed,...
My risk mitigation strategy includes trading with stops, risking not more than 2% of my margin per trade (you are a moron if you risk your margin account for a single trade), and I have spread my broker risk over 2 brokers (with 3 accounts at one and 1 at the other), maintaining a balance in each account to comfortably trade 6 standard lots in each account. I withdraw earnings once a week into a bank account that is not connected in anyway to the brokers. As you set up your risk strategy, think of it as making arrangements such that a black swan event causes you to have a bad day, and not a bad year. As a trader, you are the steward of your margin account, so protect it first.
  • #309
  • Nov 21, 2018 10:33am Nov 21, 2018 10:33am
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} Well, since that 3 pips was the high for that account before price reversed... I'd say my live trading is more than happy.(It was a 10 pip move actually but since you seem to know nothing about trading or that specific exotic...) How's your DEMO trading going buckyboy?
As expected you are in here because your time is invaluable..just to waste everyone's time.
just another FFDS who feeds on promoting bucket shop broker (Your master)..SOMEONE WHO IS NOT TRADING FOR MONEY, as you stated...and when he trades got a margin on 3 or 10 pips ...who cares ...I did not read your thread when you were moaning for your loss...Your threads and posts make me disguised!!
  • #310
  • Nov 21, 2018 10:48am Nov 21, 2018 10:48am
Alright..Let me ask a different question..Is your SL really respected when there is a major black swan?
  • #311
  • Nov 21, 2018 10:52am Nov 21, 2018 10:52am
Quoting Ray9
Alright..Let me ask a different question..Is your SL really respected when there is a major black swan?
Some slippage can happen but definitely more respected than mental SLs, lol.
Necessity knows no law except to conquer
  • #312
  • Nov 21, 2018 11:49am Nov 21, 2018 11:49am
Quoting Ray9
Hello Traders, I have a question for pro traders who do NOT use stop loss in their trading. They are usually into consistent profits especially with their PRO MM. However, I never understands what their protection against significant events, For example 9/11 attacks, Tsunami, War or SNB EURCHF drop back to 2015 (more than 3000 pips)! Are you using still hard stop like %20 of your account? or any other way of MM? and Please this thread is not to discuss whether or not to use a stop loss for trading. Thank you. ...
I'm glad you asked this. I mess around in my demo account still and take riskier move their. Recently I started to apply a 3:1 or 2:1 reward-to-risk ratio stop-losses (actually trailing stops) and I have found I am losing more than I am winning. I think I may try a larger trailing stop or not trailing at all, just a stop.

It would be interest to see if you did a poll of the people in this thread as to what they do.

Here are a couple videos on youtube I saw about this topic:
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If you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly
  • #313
  • Nov 21, 2018 11:53am Nov 21, 2018 11:53am
Quoting Ray9
Alright..Let me ask a different question..Is your SL really respected when there is a major black swan?
The last swan we had my broker did honor stops. Not all brokers will do this however because they can't.

Quoting Ray9
Alright..Let me ask a different question..Is your SL really respected when there is a major black swan?
BTW, there is no such thing as minor black swan. Every swan is major by definition. In other words, it is an event that no one saw coming and everyone was caught completely off guard. Every bank, every trader, every exchange is completely blindsided.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #314
  • Nov 21, 2018 12:01pm Nov 21, 2018 12:01pm
Quoting warrensapp
{quote} I'm glad you asked this. I mess around in my demo account still and take riskier move their. Recently I started to apply a 3:1 or 2:1 reward-to-risk ratio stop-losses (actually trailing stops) and I have found I am losing more than I am winning. I think I may try a larger trailing stop or not trailing at all, just a stop. It would be interest to see if you did a poll of the people in this thread as to what they do. Here are a couple videos on youtube I saw about this topic: https://youtu.be/c4GaJKprGEs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G77...ature=youtu.be...
Ye its a real thing but proper SL placement can help alot.
Necessity knows no law except to conquer
  • #315
  • Nov 21, 2018 12:03pm Nov 21, 2018 12:03pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} The last swan we had my broker did honor stops. Not all brokers will do this however because they can't. {quote} BTW, there is no such thing as minor black swan. Every swan is major by definition. In other words, it is an event that no one saw coming and everyone was caught completely off guard. Every bank, every trader, every exchange is completely blindsided.
I haven't researched this too much so I haven't found any explanation, are you aware of any theoretical explanation for why a Black Swan occurs?
  • #316
  • Nov 21, 2018 12:17pm Nov 21, 2018 12:17pm
Quoting spotrate
{quote} I haven't researched this too much so I haven't found any explanation, are you aware of any theoretical explanation for why a Black Swan occurs?
Hi spot,

There is no explanation. Black Swans are by definition random events. If a tsunami hits the NYSE five minutes from now, that would be a black swan event. No one saw that coming. It was not in anyone's risk model. It was a sigma event so large that no one would bother with it, but it happened anyway. That is what a black swan is.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #317
  • Nov 21, 2018 12:53pm Nov 21, 2018 12:53pm
A couple of points here:

1). What exactly do you mean by "pro traders"? So far as I know, the only pro traders work for banks or hedge funds. If that's what you mean, then yes, they use stops , though not the 10-20 pip stops used by Dumb Money. If you mean retail traders who use a market-maker like Oanda or FXCM, then they are not professional traders - no way can they earn a living through trading (don't bother claiming otherwise because I won't believe you anyway).

2). Black Swan events do occur - and they occur more frequently than most us are willing to admit. They're not as rare as you think. If you don't use a stop, you'll eventually get blown out of the water. NOT using a stop is playing Russian roulette with your account - one day your luck WILL run out.

3). Yes, stop-hunting is a real thing. But it's not what you think. Your broker is not hunting your stops. However, banks routinely hunt stops around the obvious places (recent swing highs/lows). They don't do it to be mean - they do it because they need liquidity.
  • #318
  • Nov 21, 2018 2:17pm Nov 21, 2018 2:17pm
Quoting gravitist
A couple of points here: 1). What exactly do you mean by "pro traders"? So far as I know, the only pro traders work for banks or hedge funds. If that's what you mean, then yes, they use stops , though not the 10-20 pip stops used by Dumb Money. If you mean retail traders who use a market-maker like Oanda or FXCM, then they are not professional traders - no way can they earn a living through trading (don't bother claiming otherwise because I won't believe you anyway). 2). Black Swan events do occur - and they occur more frequently than most us are...
1. There are four words that professional educators tell their students to refrain from using. All. None. Always and Never. Consider that going forward. Certainties outside of the world of science are very, very rare.

2. True black swan events are usually news worthy and they tend to be global.

3. Stops hunts are an urban myth for the most part. Think of all the traders using all manner of time frames and price chart displays. There is literally a swing low or high on every handle. While I do not possess a series seven, it is highly unlikely that banks hunt stops. A casual look at volatility will confirm this.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #319
  • Nov 21, 2018 2:46pm Nov 21, 2018 2:46pm
Quoting jmn5611
3. Stops hunts are an urban myth for the most part. Think of all the traders using all manner of time frames and price chart displays. There is literally a swing low or high on every handle. While I do not possess a series seven, it is highly unlikely...
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  • #320
  • Nov 21, 2018 2:55pm Nov 21, 2018 2:55pm
Quoting 3ndlessHope
{quote} Ye its a real thing but proper SL placement can help alot.
That begs the question - what is the proper SL placement? Tight or wide? Large positions or small? Is there a correlation between the size of the position you take and the size of your SL? Does time frame matter - If so, what type of SL used for each time frame? Stop Loss vs. Trailing stop - is there a better proven strategy between the two and why?

I'm trying to figure this stuff on my own out here - could use some tips.
If you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly
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