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Hey...what about Volume?

  • #401
  • Nov 14, 2018 9:19pm Nov 14, 2018 9:19pm
Quoting vwap
...Thanks again Don, will report back my findings, keep up the good work!
Thanks for your kind words...all the best. I'm happy to answer any questions if I can.
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  • #402
  • Nov 17, 2018 11:34am Nov 17, 2018 11:34am
Quoting DonPato
As I said at the beginning...I am trying to "translate" what I learned in trading futures to the forex market. I trade very short time frames, and have found that just because price does something, (up or down) does not necessarily mean that is what the volume (and by extrapolation order flow) is doing. Case in point...Imagine a range. Got it? OK... Imagine this range breaks to the down side. A big long red candle occurs. From experience I think most of us would say, "the sellers have overcome the buyers, and have now dominated the market." But...
Nice thread. I talk about this in some videos I made. I utilize delta as well.

Inserted Video
Money Talks, Bullshit Walks
  • #403
  • Nov 17, 2018 7:58pm Nov 17, 2018 7:58pm
Quoting Keyser_Soze
{quote} Nice thread. I talk about this in some videos I made. I utilize delta as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAwhBkteTHA
Hi Keyser, Nice video. Is it NT7 or NT8 you're using ? What are the three indicators displayed ? Where are the indis available ?

I don't normally use indicators but indicators showing market info like volume or bid/ask delta are exceptions.
  • #404
  • Nov 17, 2018 8:56pm Nov 17, 2018 8:56pm
Quoting pooh123
{quote} Hi Keyser, Nice video. Is it NT7 or NT8 you're using ? What are the three indicators displayed ? Where are the indis available ? I don't normally use indicators but indicators showing market info like volume or bid/ask delta are exceptions.
Both delta visuals come installed in the newest version of NT8. The volume profile that I use is from DiscoTrading.
Money Talks, Bullshit Walks
  • #405
  • Nov 18, 2018 10:09am Nov 18, 2018 10:09am
Very impressive video Kaiser. The tools you have selected are quite useful. I've been looking for something like the horizontal delta indicator but can't seem to find one for the platforms I use. As well, I am very interested in finding something that displays horizontal delta at each candle. Still looking. Of note though...most of your signals to enter long I noted the horizontal selling level was left behind on the upswing...classic absorption. I would greatly appreciate if you would post a screen shot of one of those entries so I could study it in further detail...thanks.
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  • #406
  • Nov 19, 2018 3:12am Nov 19, 2018 3:12am
Quoting DonPato
Very impressive video Kaiser. The tools you have selected are quite useful. I've been looking for something like the horizontal delta indicator but can't seem to find one for the platforms I use. As well, I am very interested in finding something that displays horizontal delta at each candle. Still looking. Of note though...most of your signals to enter long I noted the horizontal selling level was left behind on the upswing...classic absorption. I would greatly appreciate if you would post a screen shot of one of those entries so I could study...

I know a few traders who swear by DiscoTrading so you can't go wrong with that choice...

I would also consider Sierra Charts as they have volume profile built in and showing delta at price - not affiliated to any just providing options....trade well
It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it!
  • #407
  • Nov 19, 2018 3:16am Nov 19, 2018 3:16am
Quoting Keyser_Soze
{quote} Nice thread. I talk about this in some videos I made. I utilize delta as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAwhBkteTHA
Very useful video mate; I got few important points to analysis! Thanks for sharing.
  • #408
  • Nov 19, 2018 5:06am Nov 19, 2018 5:06am
Hi @DonPato
Hope this finds you well?
Great thread mate & thank so much for startng it, & sharing your knowledge with your posts, & to all the others who have posted as well, especially @Keyser_Soze with your videos, awesome stuff, will be following along with interest.
Cheers
  • #409
  • Nov 19, 2018 5:16am Nov 19, 2018 5:16am
Quoting Keyser_Soze
{quote} Both delta visuals come installed in the newest version of NT8. The volume profile that I use is from DiscoTrading.
Not wanting to hijack, but if I may please ask @Keyser_Soze are you using them for FX or only futures? Have you tried those with an FX feed on NT8 such as FXCM or one of NT8's other partners, or are you mostly was wondering how they stacked up?
Thanks
  • #410
  • Nov 19, 2018 10:45am Nov 19, 2018 10:45am
Quoting J-j
Hi @DonPato Hope this finds you well? Great thread mate & thank so much for startng it, & sharing your knowledge with your posts, & to all the others who have posted as well, especially @Keyser_Soze with your videos, awesome stuff, will be following along with interest. Cheers
Thank you for your kind words...I appreciate that you found something worthy of study...If you don't mind if I chime in on your question to Keyser...and I have said this 1,000 times if I have said it once....in FX trading the volume (and therefore delta) is NOT the same as the tick volume and will NOT produce the exact same results...however you can get pretty close...just want to state that again, because many come here looking at this and either reject it out of hand or think it can be applied (as is) to FX trading...both are inaccurate.

OK...I'll get off my stump now.
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  • #411
  • Nov 19, 2018 4:01pm Nov 19, 2018 4:01pm
Quoting DonPato
{quote} Thank you for your kind words...I appreciate that you found something worthy of study...If you don't mind if I chime in on your question to Keyser...and I have said this 1,000 times if I have said it once....in FX trading the volume (and therefore delta) is NOT the same as the tick volume and will NOT produce the exact same results...however you can get pretty close...just want to state that again, because many come here looking at this and either reject it out of hand or think it can be applied (as is) to FX trading...both are inaccurate....
No worries DonPato this is your thread by all means chime in. Yeah I get the difference between the volumes of the two & therefore the delta will be different, but as you state it can get close so I was wondering could these tools be translated to FX to some degree & be a worthy addition to some of the concepts you are discussing here?

Get on your stump anytime you like mate

Cheers
  • #412
  • Nov 19, 2018 6:00pm Nov 19, 2018 6:00pm
Quoting J-j
... so I was wondering could these tools be translated to FX to some degree & be a worthy addition to some of the concepts you are discussing here? ...
Exactly what I'm trying to do here...I am currently working with VWAP in identifying the "where" (what price) the absorption occurs. But also coming up with a cogent definition for an "exhaustion" candle, or as many here put it..."momentum"
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 51 KB

This latest trade shows what I am looking for...note how volume drops off even as price accelerated down into a previous area of resistance (now support). Those same two candles showed a very high selling delta. Thus, the anomaly that I am unable to find with tick volume. (high delta, declining volume). The final exhaustion absorption phase (first white candle at bottom) showed just the opposite...rising tick volume with low buying delta...this is typical of absorption (the final phase in most cases).
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  • #413
  • Edited 11:44pm Nov 19, 2018 11:09pm | Edited 11:44pm
Quoting DonPato
Final Thoughts for today: {image} Note the bearish engulfing bar in the area where we might expect a turn around...also note the rise in volume. Of even further note is the very next bar was bullish on even more volume...but couldn't make a higher high. Short anyone?
I am a noob in volume based trading in both FX and recently entered the Futures market. I always thought tick volume in Spot FX is a 'change' in broker's order book and has no significance to a real exchange of order/transaction match between buyer and seller and one of the two could be oanda so how can you say volume is of any significance in spot fx? Could you please confirm my understanding on the definition of a tick in spot fx is not really an actual physical trade like it is in Futures.

My apologies if you have covered this in your thread. I just subscribed and reading thru the details as Soze's post got me here looking into his delta volume videos.

EDIT: To further clarify, if a spot fx trader places a pending order or moves his stop or anything related to his trading activity, it will generate a tick in the order book and therefore will show up in the volume bar. Is this accurate? I ruled out tick volume in spot fx years ago because of this.
Staying in my lane...
  • #414
  • Nov 20, 2018 12:52am Nov 20, 2018 12:52am
I use volume differently. Volume profile gives you wonderful sup/dem zones, but always open to learn new things. Good luck on your thread!
Necessity knows no law except to conquer
  • #415
  • Nov 20, 2018 8:48am Nov 20, 2018 8:48am
Quoting VEEFX
... I always thought tick volume in Spot FX is a 'change' in broker's order book and has no significance to a real exchange...
That would very much depend on your broker. I did cover this before but I'll go over it again...your broker (especially if you are using MT4) displays the tick volume within their clientele. So yes this might be true. It is best to find a broker that will at least provide the volume data from their liquidity provider which should be substantially more reliable. In the end, the spot FX market is decentralized and there is no central repository for this data so it will be the large liquidity provider's data (ie saxobank, deuchebank, loyds) or an amalgam of those providers...this volume shows how many transactions but not the size of those transactions.


Quoting VEEFX
... Could you please confirm my understanding on the definition of a tick in spot fx is not really an actual physical trade like it is in Futures...
It is actually a transaction...again between large liquidity providers...our little mini and mico lots are transacted inside the bucket shop called our "broker". That is because the volume is so minuscule that the broker must hold onto several orders to get enough volume (size) to place those order with the liquidity provider...so a tick in spot IS a transaction...just not YOUR transaction...unless you are trading significant volume (like 1 million or higher).

Quoting VEEFX
... To further clarify, if a spot fx trader places a pending order or moves his stop or anything related to his trading activity, it will generate a tick in the order book and therefore will show up in the volume bar. Is this accurate? I ruled out tick volume in spot fx years ago because of this.
Not quite...please refer to the graphic below:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot2.png Size: 24 KB

Any market has orders that are pending above and below the current price. These are limit orders and represent literal cash (money) that the participant is willing to transact at that price...above the market are sells (ask)...and below the market are buys (bid). In other words...liquidity. These orders are transacted when another participant enters a market order at any price corresponding to these levels...buyers matched with sellers...etc.

Ticks are generated with these two participants are matched and a transaction is produced...the "market' registers the time, and price...but NOT the volume (how many lots).

So lets pretend that you entered a long position. You either bought at the market or placed a pending order...below is a limit order, and above is a stop order. So now you have a long position and if you are like most participants you will set a limit (to take profit) and a stop (to protect your position). These are both SELL orders. Clear so far? The ONLY way to exit a long position is with a sell order...

So your sell at take profit is a LIMIT order and is placed above the current price (market) and is added to the liquidity at that level. Your stop however is a different matter. it is an "OSO" (order sends order). Which means that your when the price of your stop is hit, the broker will initiate a MARKET order to sell. This is because sell orders are only allowed ABOVE the market and are called limit orders.

So if you move your orders, either stop or limit...BEFORE they are executed...NO tick is generated because no transaction took place. A tick is ONLY generated when a transaction (buyer and seller agree to transact) takes place.

These are the fundamental basics of how the market works...but many of us never take time to truly understand them. We are so focused on indicators and averages that we neglect HOW price moves in the first place. When studied well it will become apparent that small (tiny) inefficiencies in the market foretell short term price movements which can be used to your advantage.

I hope this is understandable...please let me know if it is not
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  • #416
  • Nov 20, 2018 8:51am Nov 20, 2018 8:51am
Quoting 3ndlessHope
I use volume differently. Volume profile gives you wonderful sup/dem zones, but always open to learn new things. Good luck on your thread!
I like them too but would really appreciate the profile on EACH candle...THAT to me would be something of great value.
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  • #417
  • Nov 20, 2018 8:55am Nov 20, 2018 8:55am
Quoting DonPato
{quote} I like them too but would really appreciate the profile on EACH candle...THAT to me would be something of great value.
Well its doable and actually there is already a volume profile indicator that can do what you want, but cant do it automatically. You can set custom(any) dates with it.
Necessity knows no law except to conquer
  • #418
  • Nov 20, 2018 9:05am Nov 20, 2018 9:05am
Quoting DonPato
{quote} That would very much depend on your broker. I did cover this before but I'll go over it again...your broker (especially if you are using MT4) displays the tick volume within their clientele. So yes this might be true.
Tick volume is the number of ticks or price changes in a given time interval.
  • #419
  • Nov 20, 2018 9:21am Nov 20, 2018 9:21am
Quoting pooh123
{quote} Tick volume is the number of ticks or price changes in a given time interval.
I'm sorry to disagree with you but it is NOT the number of price changes...it is the number of transactions...often time with a great deal of liquidity at a certain level, many smaller trader will transact at the market but cannot make a dent in the available liquidity...

This is the very basis of "absorption"...high tick volume yet price cannot advance...and actually falls back.
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  • #420
  • Nov 20, 2018 9:22am Nov 20, 2018 9:22am
Quoting 3ndlessHope
{quote} Well its doable and actually there is already a volume profile indicator that can do what you want, but cant do it automatically. You can set custom(any) dates with it.
I've been looking for something along those lines for my cTrader platform, but as of yet cannot find it.
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