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Pro traders who do not use SL, What about Black Swans?

  • #161
  • Nov 6, 2018 1:12am Nov 6, 2018 1:12am
Quoting groper
ive only got a modest account, yet i largely do not use a SL anymore... i got sick and tired of the SL getting hit before price turning in my favour! Soooo many times i get the direction correct but my timing is early. now i dont use SL, my problem has gone away and im making more money not less by not using one. If i start to get worried with a trade going bad - i hedge, average down, or let the +ve swaps do their work instead. Provided your MM has not left you way over extended, you should always still have plenty of margin to carry on. Also,...
u all loosers ! jk
  • #162
  • Nov 6, 2018 1:33am Nov 6, 2018 1:33am
Quoting groper
ive only got a modest account, yet i largely do not use a SL anymore... i got sick and tired of the SL getting hit before price turning in my favour! Soooo many times i get the direction correct but my timing is early. now i dont use SL, my problem has gone away and im making more money not less by not using one. If i start to get worried with a trade going bad - i hedge, average down, or let the +ve swaps do their work instead. Provided your MM has not left you way over extended, you should always still have plenty of margin to carry on. Also,...
the thing i learnt early in my trading was like you my stops were getting hit , after i stopped my account showed some progress , i traded one pair aud/usa for a few years ,
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #163
  • Nov 6, 2018 1:35am Nov 6, 2018 1:35am
Lets not use TP either because they are getting hit? Bad, bad TP... you are useless! lol
Necessity knows no law except to conquer
  • #164
  • Nov 6, 2018 2:07am Nov 6, 2018 2:07am
Quoting Aussi
{quote} sorry mate i only go with asic brokers they have to separate the money >>>>> and big gun
Haha good one, I hadn't thought to use a gun for risk minimization.
I should call my account manager and invite him over for shooting practice
Have a nice day
  • #165
  • Nov 6, 2018 2:16am Nov 6, 2018 2:16am
Quoting billv
{quote} Haha good one, I hadn't thought to use a gun for risk minimization. I should call my account manager and invite him over for shooting practice

its amazing how many brokers does not return your calls when you tell them that
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #166
  • Nov 6, 2018 6:45am Nov 6, 2018 6:45am
Quoting Ray9
Hello Traders, I have a question for pro traders who do NOT use stop loss in their trading. They are usually into consistent profits especially with their PRO MM. However, I never understands what their protection against significant events, For example 9/11 attacks, Tsunami, War or SNB EURCHF drop back to 2015 (more than 3000 pips)! Are you using still hard stop like %20 of your account? or any other way of MM? and Please this thread is not to discuss whether or not to use a stop loss for trading. Thank you. ...
Trading with SL is not a wise thing, having said that, trading with fixed stops isn't wise either since most time those will be taken during stop hunts.
Personally I use a mental $$ value stop loss. During weekends to prevent big losses, i sometimes open hedged positions to prevent any sudden moves that might have a bigger risk on my equity
Fall seven times, stand up Eight! #GGMU
  • #167
  • Nov 6, 2018 6:50am Nov 6, 2018 6:50am
We use SL on capital. Dont deposit all your money. Only % of your money you can loose and its OK.
  • #168
  • Nov 6, 2018 6:55am Nov 6, 2018 6:55am
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} Somewhat. Still sitting on my hands most of the time. How's your time away been?
Thanks Redeflect. Myself, catching up with personal stuff...
  • #169
  • Nov 6, 2018 7:08am Nov 6, 2018 7:08am
Quoting vickym
{quote} Trading with SL is not a wise thing, having said that, trading with fixed stops isn't wise either since most time those will be taken during stop hunts. Personally I use a mental $$ value stop loss. During weekends to prevent big losses, i sometimes open hedged positions to prevent any sudden moves that might have a bigger risk on my equity
i have never ever seen one good trader without SL, many tell about , but good was not one of them.
of course there exist some ironic unexperienced tarders, who dont know that hedged postions are same like SL, that account margin call is same like SL for smaller money traders..... when people get bigger 7 digits accounts and they dont use any SL inside , they are total unexperienced gablers and lose all on the end, not question if they lose, only when.... simple math.... near all in this forum will not be a professional trader and so dont have to pay for negative balance in account, so they dont care for all..... but this beginner trading is so different to real money trading...

it really looks many dont know what is a SL and what is 100% same like a SL.

whats also so funny, when a system/strategy makes more win without a SL, then this strategy is wrong and can be improved so extrem : always (when you cant understand that this is correct, start learning basics at this moment!). many dont have a plan from their strategy and how to improve maybe and thatswhy cant use a good SL, maybe thatswhy so many have with this easy topic a problem. but thats also only a problem of learning basics before starting trading.
  • #170
  • Nov 6, 2018 10:27am Nov 6, 2018 10:27am
Quoting Aussi
{quote} its amazing how many brokers does not return your calls when you tell them that
Still... I would split those funds over 2 or 3 brokers so if one of them runs away with the cash
or their star trader starts gambling the money in the segregated account and the broker goes bust, I won't lose everything.
Have a nice day
  • #171
  • Nov 6, 2018 10:56am Nov 6, 2018 10:56am
A hedge is the same as a stoploss.

Hahahahahahahahahahahah. Only dufas can come up with that slogan. Just an FYI, opening a long and short on the same instrument at the same time IS NOT A HEDGE, ITS A ZERO SUM GAIN. A genuine hedge involves a different instrument and its intended use is to offset a loss not assume a stop loss role. Only beginner would believe a hedge is a stoploss.
  • #172
  • Nov 6, 2018 11:10am Nov 6, 2018 11:10am
I wouldn't say it's exactly the same as a stoploss because with a stoploss, once your trade hits the stop, you're out and moving on to the next thing never looking back. With a hedge, you would still have the option of exiting that buy and sell each in profit or at a smaller loss, at some point in the future.
  • #173
  • Edited 11:26am Nov 6, 2018 11:12am | Edited 11:26am
Quoting spotrate
I wouldn't say it's exactly the same as a stoploss because with a stoploss, once your trade hits the stop, you're out and moving on to the next thing never looking back. With a hedge, you would still have the option of exiting that buy and sell each in profit at some point in the future.
you are out! simple take a look at the net exposure. i cant believe so easy topics are really discussed, hey people, start learning basics before you start trading, dont be second ecotrader in trading, with faking exerience and then failing.,..

dont believe any bullshit post from ecotrader, he is unexperienced bad little trader with no money, posting only wrong statements.

anytime i need to correct this idiot. he dont stop writing wrong facts, very very misleading idiot.

so once again: hedging is total same, there is no 2 positions open, its same like a closed position, the broker only likes the idiots who trade this style for can get double rollover for nothing..... when any beginner will tell its not same, ask any experienced trader or simple learning the total ground basics will help. never ever you should start one trade when you dont know this total simple basic fact, really, this is important to understand!

when you dont know whats Stoploss, simple think about the word:
you stop losing after this order is filled. hedging is the SL style of the beginner and idiots (because you pay more fee when you hold it over the rollover time, its for the idiots because beginner like to think trade is not closed so not in loss... they cantg see its closed and same like reopen later.. learning basics is so important) but still is a simple SL. same with other kind, margincall in account witn negative acciont protection, options...... whatever you use so you can calculate your loss from beginning the trade, so easy!
  • #174
  • Nov 6, 2018 11:28am Nov 6, 2018 11:28am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} you are out! simple take a look at the net exposure. i cant believe so easy topics are really discussed, hey people, start learning basics before you start trading, dont be second ecotrader in trading, with faking exerience and then failing.,.. dont believe any bullshit post from ecotrader, he is unexperienced bad little trader with no money, posting only wrong statements. anytime i need to correct this idiot. he dont stop writing wrong facts, very very misleading idiot. so once again: hedging is total same, there is no 2 positions open,...

don't believe any bullshit post from ecotrader, he is inexperienced bad little trader with no money, posting only wrong statements. <=== I agree 100%.

If you look at his explorer, he's got a BUY EURUSD and a SELL EURCAD, any experienced trader would never sell the EUR and BUY the EUR at the same time.
If you come across him on forums, he constantly argues and causes trouble with anyone he comes across.
  • #175
  • Nov 6, 2018 11:34am Nov 6, 2018 11:34am
Quoting Asw
{quote} don't believe any bullshit post from ecotrader, he is inexperienced bad little trader with no money, posting only wrong statements. <=== I agree 100%. If you look at his explorer, he's got a BUY EURUSD and a SELL EURCAD, any experienced trader would never sell the EUR and BUY the EUR at the same time. If you come across him on forums, he constantly argues and causes trouble with anyone he comes across.
he is stupid, he even believe trading a little little account is same like trading big million accounts, because he dont have any money and very small account and use martingale, he really thinks he is a trader and dont need to learn the basics.

in near any of his posts are mistakes, unbelieveable, but only correcting the biggest bullshit and misleading fact is enough, no time to care more about such a loser.
  • #176
  • Nov 6, 2018 12:00pm Nov 6, 2018 12:00pm
Attached Image
  • #177
  • Nov 6, 2018 12:01pm Nov 6, 2018 12:01pm
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} Then ALL businesses are like gambling, of course there is something always something that we define as" luck" but it definitely doesn't play the biggest role in the long term.
What matters in the long term is that a sucker's born every day.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #178
  • Nov 6, 2018 12:15pm Nov 6, 2018 12:15pm
Quoting spotrate
{image}

ok, please hear now very carefully and reread it!

you are wrong, 100% wrong !

this is what maybe brokers, maybe scammer, maybe fraudstarter, maybe beginner and maybe loser trader think....
learning basics would teach you so easy that this is 100% total wrong!

always look at the net position.
read all about hedging in this forum, or people would need to write all again and again (any argument is already written about this total beginner topic, because its total easy and basic...), dont read a post from anyone who tell hedging is better then not hedging, only the other posts, and then understand this arguments and write example trades on paper and really understand this point.

a hedge is always a loss , when its open as loss! the next trades can be a win, you only then calculate the new win to old position and so think the old positions are wins........ really, this is total basic. stop all your trading and first learn the basics, you will save 5 years of time and many many money. do it or pay with your time and money for beeing lazy.

and by the way: this is a 100% objective topic, there are no 2 opinions possible.
you have to learn to trade the equity, not your balance (like you do with last post), then you dont come to this wrong statements from your last post (where ever you did take this wrong facts, delete this person or website... pure bullshit...).
  • #179
  • Nov 6, 2018 12:23pm Nov 6, 2018 12:23pm
Oh now it's about the net position. Okay well the net position in that screenshot was also a net profit despite the large sum in commission.

You're obviously allergic to the word "hedge." The only thing I was trying to say is that it isn't exactly as placing a stoploss which most people would agree with or wouldn't care enough to make an opinion on since it's kind of obvious. I'm not going to try and prove anything anymore. You can't reason with unreasonable people.
  • #180
  • Nov 6, 2018 12:27pm Nov 6, 2018 12:27pm
Quoting spotrate
Oh now it's about the net position. Okay well the net position in that screenshot was also a net profit despite the large sum in commission. You're obviously allergic to the word "hedge." The only thing I was trying to say is that it isn't exactly as placing a stoploss which most people would agree with or wouldn't care enough to make an opinion on since it's kind of obvious. I'm not going to try and prove anything anymore. You can't reason with unreasonable people.
you cant proof anything, because you are 100% wrong.

and its always about net position, where do you live? thats trading!
always net position and always equity is important!

having same currency same amount buy and sell open, you can simple merge this position and its out and netted! so simple. you have then a more difficult done stoploss, so simple.... you can let both position open when you are extrem beginner , of course most stupid trading ways are always possible, noone has to use most easy and best way... but its still nothing more then a SL.

how can you understand arguments when you are to lazy to learn the basics, i cant understand you. i really hope you never ever risk 1 usd in trading, i hope it for you.
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