Pro traders who do not use SL, What about Black Swans? | Page 5 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Minimum exchange rates (Black Swans) 2 replies

Pending order script modification for black swans 3 replies

Alpari Direct Pro vs Alpari MT4 Pro 4 replies

Black swans 17 replies

Disaster stops and black swans 0 replies

Attachments: Pro traders who do not use SL, What about Black Swans?
Exit Attachments

Pro traders who do not use SL, What about Black Swans?

  • #81
  • Nov 2, 2018 10:52am Nov 2, 2018 10:52am
This guy doesn't use a stop

Listen to 079: The biggest financial experiment the world has ever seen—global macro investor, Raoul Pal by Chat With Traders #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/chat-with-tra...macro-investor
  • #82
  • Nov 2, 2018 11:09am Nov 2, 2018 11:09am
Quoting EcoTrader
{quote} Presuming all professional traders hold over night. Most of the ones I know are flat at the end of each day
Could you ask thoose that you know for the reason of not using a stoploss? They have a mental stop, why not put stoploss at mental stop level?
Necessity knows no law except to conquer
  • #83
  • Nov 2, 2018 11:30am Nov 2, 2018 11:30am
Quoting 3ndlessHope
{quote} Could you ask thoose that you know for the reason of not using a stoploss? They have a mental stop, why not put stoploss at mental stop level?
My assessment of this is they don't have rigid money management which I am finding is significantly increasing my bottom line. The traders I know that do this for a living are similarly dynamic in their management. It's what got me rolling in the direction and I have never looked back.
  • #84
  • Nov 2, 2018 6:15pm Nov 2, 2018 6:15pm
Quoting Ctq
Hello, this is my first time posting on FF. I have been using FF for awhile now, but almost exclusively for the economic calendar. This is my first account and i have a question to ask that maybe some of you can help me with. Would any of you know of the brokers that professional traders are using with good deep liquidity? The reason i am asking is that i have been using some brokers, of which Tickmill is one of, and trade in 100 lots and above, though usually in tranches of 40. But i find that their execution of late has been lacking as compared...
your account looks very small with 50k for trading 120 lots, looks very risky. i wish you really good luck with this suicide experiment. very new in trading?
when near 20 pip loss already can kill your whole account you really need this luck and many many hours training with learning trading in real to get some day sucess.

you are only cent account trader, correct? because leverage 500:1 no good broker would give a trader in a 50000 account, or only traders who trade very bad....
so your 100 lots are in real 1 lot? thats looks then more realistic, so you dont need a good other broker and your account looks with this extrem risky strategy more realistic , because not important to lose such small money and you can trade this total risky strategy for little win.
  • #85
  • Nov 2, 2018 6:38pm Nov 2, 2018 6:38pm
Hi Dukas Trader, You seem to understand leverage and big money. Can I ask you as an intraday trader (5m Auctions) with big account (for retailer) say $1m is 200 lots realistic?
Is it better to have zero leverage than 100:1 with bigger money?
I use Axi Trader. What do you think of them?
They have been very good to me so far. Could they handle bigger money?
  • #86
  • Nov 2, 2018 8:03pm Nov 2, 2018 8:03pm
Quoting 3ndlessHope
{quote} Could you ask thoose that you know for the reason of not using a stoploss? They have a mental stop, why not put stoploss at mental stop level?
I use sl but 90% it's never hit.. why, simply becos I am able to read the PA with high accuracy.. actually there's no need for me to use sl but I need to be sure just in case.
Just to illustrate my point on the current PA on EU. Price have topped when it breached 11405 and 11440 held. Next price will try to gun for a intra-day reversal level @11355 and stay below 11400. If it fails then PA will go back up to retest the last high@11455 and price will need to climb higher than 11475 with 11455 holding it up if it want to go higher. If that fails price will consolidate a short while and will drop to take out the 11355 bears defence and move lower.
You can gauge whether I am right in the coming week by earmarking this post.
So yes one can choose not to use sl but your reading on PA have to be spot on or with at least 80% accuracy.

Cheers...
  • #87
  • Nov 2, 2018 8:41pm Nov 2, 2018 8:41pm
Quoting genghistar
{quote} I use sl but 90% it's never hit.. why, simply becos I am able to read the PA with high accuracy.. actually there's no need for me to use sl but I need to be sure just in case. Just to illustrate my point on the current PA on EU. Price have topped when it breached 11405 and 11440 held. Next price will try to gun for a intra-day reversal level @11355 and stay below 11400. If it fails then PA will go back up to retest the last high@11455 and price will need to climb higher than 11475 with 11455 holding it up if it want to go higher. If that...
you must be rich then?
if i can ask how many millions can a retail
trader as good as you make per year? I estimate maximum intraday trading at $1m to $3m per year is this right?
  • #88
  • Nov 2, 2018 8:50pm Nov 2, 2018 8:50pm
Hi,

The objective of the stop is to kill the trade once it has been invalidated (presumably a change in sentiment).

I don't use hard stops as i have found that using discretionary ones have helped my bottom line by reducing whipsaws.

Also, hard stops don't really save you from the black swan, viable position sizing and regularly withdrawing profits reduces your risks of losses beyond margin call.
  • #89
  • Nov 2, 2018 9:10pm Nov 2, 2018 9:10pm
Quoting 3ndlessHope
{quote} Could you ask thoose that you know for the reason of not using a stoploss? They have a mental stop, why not put stoploss at mental stop level?
The answer to this question is one of the more privately held secrets of trading. It's one that you'll eventually discover the answer to. Not here though.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #90
  • Nov 2, 2018 10:21pm Nov 2, 2018 10:21pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} your account looks very small with 50k for trading 120 lots, looks very risky. i wish you really good luck with this suicide experiment. very new in trading? when near 20 pip loss already can kill your whole account you really need this luck and many many hours training with learning trading in real to get some day sucess. you are only cent account trader, correct? because leverage 500:1 no good broker would give a trader in a 50000 account, or only traders who trade very bad.... so your 100 lots are in real 1 lot? thats looks then more...
This is not a cent account. Go look tickmill up. They do offer high leverage for their VIP accounts and under tickmill prime. This is not my only account. I have been trading for some time and am willing to take some risks for good return. I am only making this record public because I am new here, and want to cut to the chase and show that I really do trade in size. I have more proof if you wish, but would you know of anyone who does trade in larger volumes?
  • #91
  • Nov 2, 2018 11:25pm Nov 2, 2018 11:25pm
Quoting Cools81
{quote} you must be rich then? if i can ask how many millions can a retail trader as good as you make per year? I estimate maximum intraday trading at $1m to $3m per year is this right?
In all sincerity I don't know if this is a appropriate question or that you should believe me if I were to tell you.
Even tho your question is out of the context of the OP discourse I will still answer you.
There are 3 elements in your question:
1. Am I rich? It depends on your yardstick of rich. But if I can continue to trade the way I am doing right now then very soon I will be more than rich.
2. Am I a good trader? I still don't think so even tho I can read the PA quite accurately. Maybe I will know better if you are kind enough to pit your expert skill against me perhaps? So far I have not find any good trader to spar with. Can you help me on this since you ask.
3.Amount winning per annum. Its arbitrarily different from your estimate and basis. I will disclose only on a need to know basis or if I am seeking for additional external funding which I don't think its necessary and likely so.
Anyway I wish you well in all your endeavor.

Cheers
  • #92
  • Nov 2, 2018 11:53pm Nov 2, 2018 11:53pm
Quoting Ray9
Hello Traders, I have a question for pro traders who do NOT use stop loss in their trading. Are you using still hard stop like %20 of your account? or any other way of MM?
Pro traders hedge.
mind over matter
  • #93
  • Nov 3, 2018 2:31am Nov 3, 2018 2:31am
Quoting genghistar
{quote} I use sl but 90% it's never hit.. why, simply becos I am able to read the PA with high accuracy.. actually there's no need for me to use sl but I need to be sure just in case. Just to illustrate my point on the current PA on EU. Price have topped when it breached 11405 and 11440 held. Next price will try to gun for a intra-day reversal level @11355 and stay below 11400. If it fails then PA will go back up to retest the last high@11455 and price will need to climb higher than 11475 with 11455 holding it up if it want to go higher. If that...
Thank you gengistar for the explanation! But my point was why not use sl if you have a mental stop? You close your position at the mental stop level by yourself, then why not use sl at the same exact level? Its just pointless to not use it, because our emotions can fail anytime, not a single trader can "close out" all of his emotions everytime, because we are humans. Failing to close at mental stop level will cause uncalculated losses, thus not using an SL is just bad.
Necessity knows no law except to conquer
  • #94
  • Nov 3, 2018 2:53am Nov 3, 2018 2:53am
Quoting 3ndlessHope
{quote} But my point was why not use sl if you have a mental stop? You close your position at the mental stop level by yourself, then why not use sl at the same exact level? Its just pointless to not use it, because our emotions can fail anytime, not a single trader can "close out" all of his emotions everytime, because we are humans. Failing to close at mental stop level will cause uncalculated losses, thus not using an SL is just bad.
I would refer you to my post in this thread earlier but also, consider this: the stop level is some arbitrary level you've decided, regardless of what indicators, S/R you used to come up to that level. How the market got there makes a lot of differences. Of course, I wouldn't recommend this to inexperienced traders who cannot control their emotions or maintain neutral judgement without being too attached to their 'conviction'.

However, with that in mind, and since the original thread refers to 'professional traders' experience, discipline, mental control is assumed. Now, how the market is trading, i.e. price action provides much more information than an arbitrary price. Therefore, a well disciplined experienced trader may chose to stop out earlier in anticipation of very unfavourable price action vs potentially letting it run past their stops for a few prices given new information the market has provided. To us, putting an automatic SL at a particular price is actually lazy, you're basically saying no matter how the market is trading, I've already made up my mind.
  • #95
  • Nov 3, 2018 5:06am Nov 3, 2018 5:06am
Quoting 3ndlessHope
{quote} Thank you gengistar for the explanation! But my point was why not use sl if you have a mental stop? You close your position at the mental stop level by yourself, then why not use sl at the same exact level? Its just pointless to not use it, because our emotions can fail anytime, not a single trader can "close out" all of his emotions everytime, because we are humans. Failing to close at mental stop level will cause uncalculated losses, thus not using an SL is just bad.
Which is why I have always advocated using sl tho I don't have to especially if I am tracking my trades. In addition:
1. We can only know to follow the footprints of the PA and Nobody can know what price will eventually go but its imperative you must know when it turns. And when it turn, beside exiting and executing a new trade you must also know whether its just a pullback, retracement, consolidation or a intra-day reversal in order to set your target price. Reward Ratio must be at least 2x or more than the sl depending on what the market can give. Even in retracement and consolidation a pairs like EU can easily yield 40-60 pips while all my sl in all market conditions are never more than 14pips, other pairs like UJ or AU etc are around 25-40 pips but with higher tp. There will be occasion when market do a surprising twist especially when we have to be away from comp or a overnight trade. So a hard stop is there to mitigate those unexpected blips or not to give back more than you should especially when you also scale in on those trade.
2. The emotion you described is more fear than greed which is the by product of a weak trading method when your plan is technically sound but trade executions are far from ideal which played on your uncertainty. Yes all human are emotional but my fear and greed are much stable due to my better read of the market PA now than many months ago. I am speaking in the context of a typical intra-day market condition which is also a precursor to all the other longer mt and lt market conditions.

Cheers and trade happy but safe with sl.

GS
  • #96
  • Nov 3, 2018 5:27am Nov 3, 2018 5:27am
Quoting genghistar
{quote}2. Am I a good trader? I still don't think so even tho I can read the PA quite accurately.
One might wonder why you'd bother to open your mouth then. Any ideas?
mind over matter
  • #97
  • Nov 3, 2018 5:54am Nov 3, 2018 5:54am
Quoting kosmo
{quote} One might wonder why you'd bother to open your mouth then. Any ideas?
I was just responding to a post that read a trader as good as me and do you have an issue with my reply now that you open your mouth to ask?
  • #98
  • Nov 3, 2018 6:22am Nov 3, 2018 6:22am
Quoting genghistar
{quote} I was just responding to a post that read a trader as good as me and do you have an issue with my reply now that you open your mouth to ask?
Look up "rhetorical questions", then come back to ask me again. Oh, and do let me know when you quit being a theoretician. Nearly 7 years a member and not a single live trade to back your vast wisdom?
mind over matter
  • #99
  • Nov 3, 2018 6:24am Nov 3, 2018 6:24am
Quoting kosmo
{quote} Look up "rhetorical questions", then come back to ask me again. Oh, and do let me know when you quit being a theoretician. Nearly 7 years a member and not a single live trade to back your vast wisdom?
Why?
  • #100
  • Nov 3, 2018 6:27am Nov 3, 2018 6:27am
Quoting genghistar
{quote} Why?
It's a very good question you should ask yourself. Why litter the forum?
mind over matter
0 traders viewing now