Minimum Balance to Trade Full time? | Page 2 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Trade 2 live accounts - one with full balance, 2nd as a live test? 0 replies

A system that works for a part time trader with minimum screen time 16 replies

Dear Full time/Part time Traders – Thanks for your time and help 7 replies

usa trade balance cad trade balance 6 replies

Attachments: Minimum Balance to Trade Full time?
Exit Attachments

Minimum Balance to Trade Full time?

  • #21
  • Nov 2, 2018 7:44am Nov 2, 2018 7:44am
Quoting Dasilvja
So everyone that trades full-time has at least $50,000 in their trading account? All the people in these forums, they're either part-time or they have $50,000? Wow. I didn't realize you needed that much to be a currency trader. Isn't only $25,000 to start trading stocks? I thought people started with forex because you didn't need such a large amount of capital to get going. Kind of a rude awakening.
Well you asked for what is needed to make a living exclusively by trading the forex market. For sure you can start trading with much less initial capital than $50,000, but this wasnīt the question right? Most brokers you can start trading with $25 or less.

Also its possible to achieve incredible high percentage returns. So yes, assuming that you can deal with high risk and the mentality to accept losing that $50.000 completely within the first 3 monthes you "could" make a good living based on that amount of money (thanks to leverage). However, reality is that most retail traders are not even able to "survive" for 3 monthes trading with their own money.

So what you will live on after that 3 month if you lost your 50k? Better think about that instead of what is possible or not.
You need a Plan B before even having a Plan A.

So to achieve what you are looking for. You need a realistic Plan A, as well as working Plan B (if things go wrong for what ever reason).

- Calculate your fixed monthly costs (electricity, rent, incurances, loans and so on).
- Calculate what you need after all that is paid.

Now you should have found a specific amount of money that you will need to realize your living.

From here you can move on developing a trading plan. Most important = good money/risk management, strong personality. The strategy or system you find your trade entries/exits with isnīt really much important for your constant long-term success.

Pro tip. If you see you are able to make constant good returns out of your trading account/s. Withdraw some of the money and invest in more reliable businesses outside of the retail trading environment, because like said its high risk speculating if you donīt have millions as safety.
  • #22
  • Nov 2, 2018 8:12am Nov 2, 2018 8:12am
Quoting tylerbose
{quote} Ridiculous, 3K in Europe is more then enough to have a comfortable life, have a nice place and a car. Sure its not enough for a family of 12 but its more then an average single guy earns
Eastern Europe is what you are talking about then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_average_wage

500 EU in Canada is a person's coffee budget for a month if they have cut down to one medium coffee a day during work days but that is apparently the average income of some Eastern European countries.

If a family of 12 was on the same coffee budget in Canada, they'd need $6000/mo and US is not much different.
  • #23
  • Nov 2, 2018 8:20am Nov 2, 2018 8:20am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Eastern Europe is what you are talking about then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_average_wage 500 EU in Canada is a person's coffee budget for a month if they have cut down to one medium coffee a day during work days but that is apparently the average income of some Eastern European countries. If a family of 12 was on the same coffee budget in Canada, they'd need $6000/mo and US is not much different.

I think you missed tylerbose's original statement. 100k to start.

2k to 5k a month isnt enough in Canada for you to live? Where the h@ll do you live?

A family of 12 in Canada? Mouth drop..............
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #24
  • Nov 2, 2018 8:22am Nov 2, 2018 8:22am
you can prepare 10,000 for your total plan.
then divide it to 10 acct x 1000 each.
and use one by one.
expectation x 2 for each 1000, then it will lead you to success.
Eventually you can burn down each 1000; then you can fell easy to take it back and earn.
Please do exactly as i said, then money will come to u.
  • #25
  • Nov 2, 2018 8:49am Nov 2, 2018 8:49am
Quoting COGSx86
{quote} I think you missed tylerbose's original statement. 100k to start. 2k to 5k a month isnt enough in Canada for you to live? Where the h@ll do you live? A family of 12 in Canada? Mouth drop..............
One bedrooms go for $1500-$2000.
5K is livable but if you add in car, insurance,fuel n repairs,food,clothing,hydro.internet.cable,medical expenses,taxes, and entertainment, then you are barely scraping by. Now if you have a mortgage, then you have to really scrape to get by. That is for a single person. If family, then usually both parents have to work to make ends meet.
I'd say where I live is comparable to San Francisco.

No I don't have a family of 12.
  • #26
  • Nov 2, 2018 9:16am Nov 2, 2018 9:16am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} One bedrooms go for $1500-$2000. 5K is livable but if you add in car, insurance,fuel n repairs,food,clothing,hydro.internet.cable,medical expenses,taxes, and entertainment, then you are barely scraping by. Now if you have a mortgage, then you have to really scrape to get by. That is for a single person. If family, then usually both parents have to work to make ends meet. I'd say where I live is comparable to San Francisco. No I don't have a family of 12.
Look I dont wanna turn this thread into a cost of living but if you can't live off 3500 CAD a month, I'm gonna assume your expectations as a trader are't reasonable.
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #27
  • Edited 12:38pm Nov 2, 2018 9:42am | Edited 12:38pm
And that's why I'm not aiming to make 2-5% /mo. 100k at 100%/yr is more like it.
  • #28
  • Nov 2, 2018 12:13pm Nov 2, 2018 12:13pm
There is a lot of "living for trading", "trading for a living" is very rare or maybe even does not exist for some people. But one thing is for sure, if you have the need to ask that question here, you are many steps and many years from "trading for a living". So be careful and do not throw your savings.

Forex trading is incorporated very differently in everyones life story, there are people that already have a lot of money and pretend to be doing something "important" with trading while they are breaking even or losing money, but they can afford to spend a lifetime doing that if they are backed up in other ways. So in the eyes of their poor friends it may seem they are living the dream. There are also people that invest part time and made loads of money and they do not even consider themselves as traders. Look at forex as a way to operate with your money. But there are many other ways also. Do not think that it is some 9-5 job that requires a desk, staring at the screen for hours, measuring some charts and indicators and calculating how much money you have made per month. People that think in such fashion have their "rude awakeing" everyday across the globe. Wish you all the best
  • #29
  • Nov 2, 2018 4:20pm Nov 2, 2018 4:20pm
Quoting Oldtraderman
{quote} The illustration given ignored compounding for reasons of simplicity and clarity. You can and should ignore compounding if you are planning on regularly withdrawing profits, which you must do if you are trading your account to earn a living. If, however, you are trading simply to build an account up without withdrawals then, yes, compounding is an important and inherent part of the process. But the question posed in the thread was specifically about trading to earn a living from the account.
You still can't ignore compounding when trading for a living...
The hope of all is to trade and win enough to withdraw living expenses and still have profit left to help build the account.. as it builds your quality of living also improves. So tell me again how compounding isn't relative to trading for a living.....
  • #30
  • Nov 2, 2018 4:41pm Nov 2, 2018 4:41pm
If most traders think about risk even before having money. I see people who have 500 euros of account and do not use the lever and open small positions, while they still have their job that gives him the salary. If they continue to use 0.01 lots on very small accounts the money will never see them! I met a guy who made 10,000 euros with a 100 euro trading account. True high risk, but if you put 100 euros into the trading account and use conventional money management how long would you take? Make money first, then use the classic rules.
  • #31
  • Nov 2, 2018 6:07pm Nov 2, 2018 6:07pm
Quoting tradestar1
{quote} You still can't ignore compounding when trading for a living... The hope of all is to trade and win enough to withdraw living expenses and still have profit left to help build the account.. as it builds your quality of living also improves. So tell me again how compounding isn't relative to trading for a living.....
Of course you can ignore compounding, it depends entirely on individual capital resources and lifestyle wishes.

As a practical example, I have earned my living exclusively from trading for almost a decade now and I have never used compounding. I have my starting capital sum on Jan 1st each year to trade with and withdraw all net profits each month to fund my life. Net account size, position size and risk assumed do not change through the year.

Now, of course, this requires that I have a sufficient account size for my needs to start off with and, thanks to prior hard graft, fortunately I do. If I want to earn more to further improve the quality of my life I focus on trading better, not bigger, so I can generate higher monthly profits off the same capital base. It's much safer and lower stress that way than pursuing a risk increasing (in cash terms at least) compounding escalator.

However, if your account is insufficient for your needs then retaining profits and compounding the account up would make perfect sense - though then you'd not be able to take a living from your account in the meantime, which is contrary to what the original thread question and my answer happened to be about.
  • #32
  • Nov 2, 2018 6:15pm Nov 2, 2018 6:15pm
I've quit my job to trade full time twice.

The pressure to make money becomes enormous. Slow days are killers because you aren't making money and you don't know how long that slow market is going to last. Meanwhile the bills aren't slowing down. The really active days are a seesaw on your nerves because although you might be up, you are under pressure to go higher to make up for slow days and meanwhile, you don't want to be greedy and blow the account. It's like living on the edge. It is in fact living on the edge. No job, no job security, no steady pay cheque that arrives every 2 weeks, no employment benefits and on top of that, by quitting your job, you have declared to all family and friends that you are so smart that you can lounge at home and use the computer to make money. Like who does that? That translates to even more pressure. You leave home to go buy some groceries and the neighbor asks you: So how's the stock market? (ehem, Forex...but you don't want to explain the difference). Oh, it's fine. Rich yet? They ask. Gerrr

Basically, you become the center of focus by everyone around you for a guy doing something that they have read about in a magazine and now you are that guy. The guy who outsmarts all the doctors and engineers and trade workers who actually go to work every day. They want proof that the magazine article they read about the smart trader was true and you are the guy who is going to prove it. Deep down they know you are not the one and you are going to see the light and then they will feel even smarter than you for knowing this wasn't possible without even trying it.

Trading for a living is like getting a loan from the bank when you don't need a loan. If you have got a pile of cash and other assets, the banks love to give you loans. So, trade at home as your career when you don't need to trade to make a living. You must have tons of money stashed that will cover your every need. Why would you want to work any way? Instead of sitting around doing nothing, you then trade a little on the side to pass time. Then your little side activity will bring you even more money and you will throw it on the stash of cash. Nobody even needs to know you are trading. You have been known to be rich anyway and no one knows where the money is coming from.

So, either get rich first and trade at home as a hobby or keep your job, trade part time until one or both sources of revenue makes you rich or the third option, if you really want to take the plunge and be the man who trades the market from home, then don't burn your bridges to your old job, keep your resume and employ-ability current and if you fail at home trading, by all means, fall onto your safety net, go back to work, make up for all that you lost and bring yourself up to date and then start again.
  • #33
  • Nov 2, 2018 6:21pm Nov 2, 2018 6:21pm
Minimum Balance to Trade Full time?

500K-$1M

This will enable you to earn at least 1K per day on average with very low risk and low stress.

If you think that you can make a living with 50K - you are delusional!
With 50K you will have to take big risk on regular basis in order to make enough money just to survive (forget about capital growth). 2-3 bad months in a row and you are out of business..... back on your day job.
  • #34
  • Nov 2, 2018 6:33pm Nov 2, 2018 6:33pm
Who has between 500K and 1M to put into a live account?! I only have 500 bucks, but what I do have is a killer strategy. My EA, your account =
  • #35
  • Nov 2, 2018 6:57pm Nov 2, 2018 6:57pm
Quoting OutThere
I've quit my job to trade full time twice. The pressure to make money becomes enormous. Slow days are killers because you aren't making money and you don't know how long that slow market is going to last. Meanwhile the bills aren't slowing down. The really active days are a seesaw on your nerves because although you might be up, you are under pressure to go higher to make up for slow days and meanwhile, you don't want to be greedy and blow the account. It's like living on the edge. It is in fact living on the edge. No job, no job security, no steady...
I can identify with the story. Terrible mistake, terrible. Quit your Job only when your balance is enough to live without trading and 2, that balance is from trading. It's very sad to see someone working hard and accumulating wealth just to throw it out on something he doesn't understand.
When you see it, BET big.
  • #36
  • Nov 2, 2018 6:59pm Nov 2, 2018 6:59pm
If you can handle the stress and pressure, with a great system, even $100 is enough. But that's just a theory, a great system is rare and even so, the stress is enormous for a $100 account. If you want to trade stress-free, I think you should have a 100k trading account and another 100k in a saving account.
  • #37
  • Nov 2, 2018 7:05pm Nov 2, 2018 7:05pm
Quoting spotrate
Who has between 500K and 1M to put into a live account?! I only have 500 bucks, but what I do have is a killer strategy. My EA, your account =
When you have good strategy and skills, but you don't have enough capital to be self sufficient trader, then you have to search for investors!
Start with small capital ( a few thousand) and strive to make perfect track record for 1 year. Low drawdown, smooth equity curve.......

If you attract a few investors and you make profit with their capital - they will give you MORE capital. And they will tell their friends, and they will give you more capital too.

If your strategy is really good, in no time you will have 2-3M under management. You make 50% profit per year, take your 20% cut....... This is how it works. This is how the professionals make a living from trading.
  • #38
  • Nov 2, 2018 7:08pm Nov 2, 2018 7:08pm
1) The answer to your question depends on you. Meaning, if you are making money consistently, you should be building up your trading equity as large as possible. If you aren't trading successfully and profiting consistently, then the question is moot.

2) Practically, only you can answer this question since only you know how much it takes you to meet your expenses, pay taxes, hit re-investment or savings goals, etc. In the past, I have advised N. Americans looking to trade for a living to do so with minimum equity of $150k. But that advice is based on a lot of assumptions and there are people who could do all of the above on less.

3) Honestly, if you have to ask this question it makes me wonder if you have the analytical capacity to even consider trading as a profession. Not in your favor that you ask it here, either. Figuring out the answer to this question is no different than any other basic financial question, like: how much do I need to be earning to buy a house in this city where I live, and so on.

4) Per (1) above though, in order to build up your trading equity, you need to be working. Working and saving. It depresses me to see young people consider trading as a desirable profession, since it's a trivial, soul-sucking, boring, slimy pursuit that offers nothing to society and that is generally populated by assholes and outright crooks.

5) Why don't you see if you can in fact trade your way up to a nice equity stake, say $250k, while working at something useful? If you are good enough to do that, maybe then you can have learned how to answer your original question for yourself. If you can't do it, then hey, at least you didn't quit your day job and go broke.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #39
  • Nov 2, 2018 7:28pm Nov 2, 2018 7:28pm
Quoting alphaomega
{quote} When you have good strategy and skills, but you don't have enough capital to be self sufficient trader, then you have to search for investors! Start with small capital ( a few thousand) and strive to make perfect track record for 1 year. Low drawdown, smooth equity curve....... If you attract a few investors and you make profit with their capital - they will give you MORE capital. And they will tell their friends, and they will give you more capital too. If your strategy is really good, in no time you will have 2-3M under management. You...
Managing funds for clients is a complete different story.

But you are basically right, this is one of many ways you could probably achieve this in a more efficient way.

However most people not even able to built that long term constant track record with small draw down no matter of how much capital they operate on.

In a nutshell it comes down to the simple facts of risk/money management as with every other business you might want to start if you are looking to work for your self.
  • #40
  • Nov 2, 2018 7:32pm Nov 2, 2018 7:32pm
Quoting Dasilvja
I was just wondering if any experienced full-time traders are able to do that with a small account. Do I need $50,000 before I can trade full time? I know one should demo trade until they have a consistently profitable trading plan. Assuming one has done all that, what is the smallest account size someone could have while earning enough, exclusively from trading, to earn a living.
here's a good outline for what your balance should be imo. In fact, it's my own yardstick whenever it is i decide to go "full time" trading, although, i feel like having a part time job never hurts

take your average win days in $ amount (or whatever currency you trade with). Max of no more than 3 winning days MUST pay for ALL EXPENSES (mortgage/rent, food, insurance, etc.).

if you can't pay all your expenses within 3 winning days, don't go trading full time.

Average american makes about 50k/year. that's about 4k/month. now you always want to live within or below your means, so say that is 3.5k/month

3.5k/3 days is littler over 1k/day. So your balance should be that you can make on average 1k/day. AS SOON AS YOU MAKE YOUR MONTHLY EXPENSES FOR ANY GIVEN MONTH, WITHDRAW ASAP. then just continue trading for growing account and additional withdrawals later. to me it helps mentally to know that you've covered your monthly expenses early in the month rather than wait till end of month to take out.

Adjust this for wherever it is you're living.

so basically it's not the balance that matters here, it's what your average daily earning is that matters. if you have 20k and you earn 1k vs 100k balance earning the same amount, to me both scenarios will work out. again, like you said, it depends on the strategy.
0 traders viewing now