Pro traders who do not use SL, What about Black Swans? | Forex Factory

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Pro traders who do not use SL, What about Black Swans?

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited Oct 24, 2018 4:31pm Oct 23, 2018 9:25am | Edited Oct 24, 2018 4:31pm
Hello Traders,

I have a question for pro traders who do NOT use stop loss in their trading. They are usually into consistent profits especially with their PRO MM. However, I never understands what their protection against significant events, For example 9/11 attacks, Tsunami, War or SNB EURCHF drop back to 2015 (more than 3000 pips)!
Are you using still hard stop like %20 of your account? or any other way of MM?
and Please this thread is not to discuss whether or not to use a stop loss for trading. Thank you.


  • #2
  • Oct 23, 2018 9:35am Oct 23, 2018 9:35am
Greetings,

If its only PRO traders you want answers from then you might be waiting a very long time LOL! you'll have to bump this thread every couple of days for a few years!

who dares wins
  • #3
  • Oct 23, 2018 9:45am Oct 23, 2018 9:45am
The term 'Pro Trader' is really ambiguous. So, I'm not going to claim I am.

1- Black swans may actually help a trader who doesn't use SL.
2- Diversify with as many trading strategies as you can. Be simultaneously short and long in your trades (Different strategies/accounts).
3- Trade small in relation to your account.

In fact, assume they haven't invented SL yet. How would you trade if they hadn't?
A blind person can assume vision wasn't evolution's plan so it never materialized. They find alternatives.
Seeing ultra violet light, flying like a bird, running like a Jaguar, smelling like a dog etc....for humans isn't possible but we get by.
  • #4
  • Oct 23, 2018 12:19pm Oct 23, 2018 12:19pm
Quoting MasterJedi
Greetings, If its only PRO traders you want answers from then you might be waiting a very long time LOL! you'll have to bump this thread every couple of days for a few years!
Let me be more clear on the term PRO TRADERS..I meant the experienced traders who manged to survive years and years with multiple Black Swan events and went through different scenarios...However, Solid constructive feedback or knowledge from anyone is greatly appreciated.

Want to share your knowledge..

Quote
you'll have to bump this thread every couple of days for a few years!
and BTW, I have no problem doing that..Since I believe they already spent years to get this experience so consistent asking for their help is still worth it...
  • #5
  • Oct 23, 2018 12:33pm Oct 23, 2018 12:33pm
Quoting OutThere
In fact, assume they haven't invented SL yet. How would you trade if they hadn't?
A blind person can assume vision wasn't evolution's plan so it never materialized. They find alternatives.
OutThere, Thank you!

This is almost what I personally believe in. I personally manage 200 to 400 pips reverse on me for 8 to 10 different pairs for multiple different kind of news release events on daily /or weekly basis.

However, the 1000 pips drop or even more that happenes. If I change my MM accordingly to protect my account for an average of 8 to 10 tradings that I trade..That means way less profits on the long term. In other words, to be safe, I have to start with big account that I use small percentage of it to trade in very small lot size.
Quoting OutThere
Black swans may actually help a trader who doesn't use SL.
Do you mean if the Black swan happened to be on my side?
  • #6
  • Oct 23, 2018 12:38pm Oct 23, 2018 12:38pm
Anyone who is trading without doing something to protect their equity is just stupid.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #7
  • Oct 23, 2018 1:18pm Oct 23, 2018 1:18pm
Quoting The Fool
Anyone who is trading without doing something to protect their equity is just stupid.
BTW, why you chose this name?
  • #8
  • Oct 23, 2018 1:30pm Oct 23, 2018 1:30pm
The account itself becomes the stop loss. Only risk capital is actually moved into the trading account. Besides black swan events, the main risk would be the brokerage shop goes bust.
  • #9
  • Oct 23, 2018 1:45pm Oct 23, 2018 1:45pm
Quoting captaincobra
The account itself becomes the stop loss. Only risk capital is actually moved into the trading account. Besides black swan events, the main risk would be the brokerage shop goes bust.
CaptainCobra
Very wise! so are you speaking about trading additional account %20 to 25 of the main account then its profits are transferred on weekly basis to the main account with same broker.
  • #10
  • Oct 23, 2018 1:59pm Oct 23, 2018 1:59pm
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-swiss-snb-brokers/swiss-franc-shock-shuts-some-fx-brokers-regulators-move-in-idUSKBN0KP1EH20150116


I know some will hate me for posting this bad memories, But with what is going on Nowadays...It is better to be prepared, sharing knowledge is greatly appreciated
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: SNB EURCHF JAN 2015.png Size: 44 KB
  • #11
  • Oct 23, 2018 2:33pm Oct 23, 2018 2:33pm
Quoting Ray9
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-swiss-snb-brokers/swiss-franc-shock-shuts-some-fx-brokers-regulators-move-in-idUSKBN0KP1EH20150116 I know some will hate me for posting this bad memories, But with what is going on Nowadays...It is better to be prepared, sharing knowledge is greatly appreciated {image}
The only way to prepare for this is to be aware of scheduled news. If you were caught on the wrong side during the event then you wouldn't have been able to do anything about it. Even a stop wouldn't have been hit because the market gapped up. Some unscheduled events like 911 unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it.
  • #12
  • Oct 23, 2018 4:25pm Oct 23, 2018 4:25pm
Keep only 25% of your capital with your broker. Enough so that margin doesn't become an issue, but only 25% is at risk of a black swan.....
  • #13
  • Oct 23, 2018 4:39pm Oct 23, 2018 4:39pm
Quoting Pipfu
Keep only 25% of your capital with your broker. Enough so that margin doesn't become an issue, but only 25% is at risk of a black swan.....

Depends on your broker. I read many stories of guys who owed tens of thousands from SNB peg removal disaster. Negative equity protected brokers will be fine but those without, will owe the broker beyond their deposit capital.
  • #14
  • Oct 23, 2018 5:26pm Oct 23, 2018 5:26pm
You worry about black swans as if they happen every other week or month, if it happens it will happen and thats it.

To me a pro trader is one that can grow to huge accounts from small deposits consistently, so my "pro trader" would just restart and do it again.
Dragon Rider
  • #15
  • Oct 23, 2018 9:19pm Oct 23, 2018 9:19pm
A pro trader will sense it ahead! If one of the account get caught, the other accounts will trigger opposite trades. So, in a summation, pro trader will win whatever is the situation.

Remember, the recent neuclear test and Gold shoot up?
  • #16
  • Oct 23, 2018 10:33pm Oct 23, 2018 10:33pm
I cannot get the views of most pro of the pros becos most are still in jail except Leeson and that's even Without any black Swan event. So go figure.... Hehe
  • #17
  • Oct 23, 2018 11:30pm Oct 23, 2018 11:30pm
This is such a silly question. They survived by being scared as fuck of not surviving those black swans. That's how they became pro traders. The rest didn't make it.

Your job isn't to figure out how they survived without a stoploss but rather to discover why so many others were not so lucky.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #18
  • Oct 23, 2018 11:57pm Oct 23, 2018 11:57pm
Quoting genghistar
I cannot get the views of most pro of the pros becos most are still in jail except Leeson and that's even Without any black Swan event. So go figure.... Hehe
Problem is rogue traders often mistakenly treated as Pro traders.
Leeson screwed up Barings big time with Nikkei index, but survived that time because of Kobe earthquake. His bosses had no clue about what he was really doing.
  • #19
  • Oct 24, 2018 12:24am Oct 24, 2018 12:24am
Quoting rekon67
{quote} Problem is rogue traders often mistakenly treated as Pro traders. Leeson screwed up Barings big time with Nikkei index, but survived that time because of Kobe earthquake. His bosses had no clue about what he was really doing.
Those that are caught are rogue and those who are not caught are star traders with superfat bonuses...nothing to do with their bosses becos he also enjoy the bonuses... Hehe

GS
  • #20
  • Oct 24, 2018 7:46am Oct 24, 2018 7:46am
Quoting EcoTrader
{quote} Negative equity protected brokers will be fine but..
It is wise to pick one of these brokers, Thanks
I hold my positions from 1 to 3 weeks in average, and I manage them daily especially during scheduled news release. My concern is with unscheduled events.

But by looking at this daily chart, I can see abnormal EURCHF was ranging within JUST 250 pips for over 250 days (1 year). So it was definitely a NO pair to pick for trading at least for me.
and perhaps traders who remembers trading that time, if there were Fundamental that backing the abnormal drop that is about to happen?

In other words, there could be early signs for some events.
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