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  • #821
  • Oct 20, 2018 12:29am Oct 20, 2018 12:29am
"I think the pros have an advantage because they have a risk manager to lock them out when they see something falling apart. For us, we have to be our own risk manager and learn to pull the stops on our own. That's the hard part. for those that are already doing this on their own, i envy you."

some thoughts i reflected on a couple times, too.
in fact even with broker's management, as a possible option.
cos hitting a stop is a thing, but if you can go all back in revenge, worthless.
sometimes the best solution would be a full lock out for a cooldown of 24-28 hours, or so.
even if normally situation is handled fine, it takes 1-2 crazy moment to mess up weeks or months or work. and everyone, or least, most of ppl have a crazy moment once in a while. who says otherwise is dishonest.

also i think i had some thoughts how average joe trader could set things up possible, but there is limited options really. somehow future brokers arent that willing to do or different, either, it seems.

as for risk management, working together with a small group would have benefits i think, but it is something that not easy to make reality.

PS. understand why the forex brokers i talked to shun the platform lockup idea, but with futures, supposedly, they arent even in partial taking the other side, thus should not be profit conflict to them.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #822
  • Edited 2:33am Oct 20, 2018 2:14am | Edited 2:33am
Quoting hilmy83
This is the LAST time i ever play music in my stream. Fucking youtube blocked it {image} anyway, today i lost 50% of my equity (about $40k). I worked the account up to 75k, getting excited to just hit that magic 100k, then I tilted in the US session and just went downhill. I traded total of 135 contracts (at one point 36 contracts in a trade!). Avg for me is like 20 contracts/day just few weeks ago. I reflected on the day here (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=11605932#post11605932). At least i have record of this video to...
I replied (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=11606092#post11606092)in the other thread. Curious how much was your initial principal deposit? Did you lose any of your trading capital or just profits?

I could also never control trading 2 lots if I have a buying power of 10 lots. Profits can easily get in your head when you are 'in the zone'.

Also, add this one to my list...

13) Are you trading to prove success to yourself or to others? Think hard whether your trading behavior would be been the same if you were not live-streaming this session? I think you know the answer to this question :-
Staying in my lane...
  • #823
  • Oct 20, 2018 2:26am Oct 20, 2018 2:26am
Quoting profitfarmer
"I think the pros have an advantage because they have a risk manager to lock them out when they see something falling apart. For us, we have to be our own risk manager and learn to pull the stops on our own. That's the hard part. for those that are already doing this on their own, i envy you." some thoughts i reflected on a couple times, too. in fact even with broker's management, as a possible option. cos hitting a stop is a thing, but if you can go all back in revenge, worthless. sometimes the best solution would be a full lock out for a cooldown...
"with futures, supposedly, they arent even in partial taking the other side, thus should not be profit conflict to them" - I learnt today that this is not true at all... to my disappointment. I won't name the futures broker but they CAN be a counterparty to your trade depending on the relationship and/or parent company setup they have as a clearing agent. In the account signup pdf, there was a one page buried in the stack of 30 pages which said the following:

Title: Authorization for Transactions in which XXX may be on the other side
The undersigned consents to transactions whereby other customers of XXX, XXX, its managing directions, officers, employees and/or any affiliate or parent company of XXX or any floor broker utilized by XXX may be on the opposite side of orders in Commodity Interest placed for such Customer's Account provided that such transactions are in conformity with regulations of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and the by-laws, rules, and regulations of the Exchange on which such orders are executed

___________________
Sign Date

I also read some horrifying things that I won't mention here. Bottom line: These brokers can do anything they want under the name of audit, compliance, regulation and/or self-regulation and we (small guys!) will have no legal recourse. This broker wants me to sign and agree that I will cover all legal/arbitration/costs on both sides regardless of the outcome. Why the f*ck would anyone want to take them to court lol
Staying in my lane...
  • #824
  • Oct 20, 2018 3:42am Oct 20, 2018 3:42am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} I replied (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=11606092#post11606092)in the other thread. Curious how much was your initial principal deposit? Did you lose any of your trading capital or just profits? I could also never control trading 2 lots if I have a buying power of 10 lots. Profits can easily get in your head when you are 'in the zone'. Also, add this one to my list... 13) Are you trading to prove success to yourself or to others? Think hard whether your trading behavior would be been the same if you were not live-streaming...
i basically wiped out 1.5months of profit. i had 25k coming in ..now sitting just over 30k (from high around 75k believe it or not-last few days i got 2 runners). it's mentally devastating. not the first time i go through this. reminds me of forex days..equity all over the damn place.

personally the stream doesn't really affect me. i'm used to the "public eye" trading with TE, myfxbook etc. streaming is nice cause i don't need to edit videos and can interact with folks if they have ideas. better than screenshot and less work to be honest.


ps. i tried removing the music option from today's stream and got error...

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  • #825
  • Oct 20, 2018 3:47am Oct 20, 2018 3:47am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} I replied (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=11606092#post11606092)in the other thread. Curious how much was your initial principal deposit? Did you lose any of your trading capital or just profits? I could also never control trading 2 lots if I have a buying power of 10 lots. Profits can easily get in your head when you are 'in the zone'. Also, add this one to my list... 13) Are you trading to prove success to yourself or to others? Think hard whether your trading behavior would be been the same if you were not live-streaming...
Saw this and had to speak to it as you are clearly a veteran trader.

I have come to believe that being "In the Zone" is exactly like Mark Douglas described it. No depression, no euphoria. I do it by making sure I do not look at my profit or loss in a dollar sense until the end of the month. I weigh my position size based on available margin, which I think you do as well. The trader who ramped up his contract size is a great lesson for him, and he will not do that again I am quite sure.

Quoting hilmy83
{quote} i basically wiped out 1.5months of profit. i had 25k coming in ..now sitting just over 30k (from high around 75k believe it or not-last few days i got 2 runners). it's mentally devastating. not the first time i go through this. reminds me of forex days..equity all over the damn place. personally the stream doesn't really affect me. i'm used to the "public eye" trading with TE, myfxbook etc. streaming is nice cause i don't need to edit videos and can interact with folks if they have ideas. better than screenshot and less work to be honest....
When you get back to your high water mark, you may try pulling the initial deposit and using profits to trade from. Have you considered that option?
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #826
  • Oct 20, 2018 4:07am Oct 20, 2018 4:07am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Saw this and had to speak to it as you are clearly a veteran trader. I have come to believe that being "In the Zone" is exactly like Mark Douglas described it. No depression, no euphoria. I do it by making sure I do not look at my profit or loss in a dollar sense until the end of the month. I weigh my position size based on available margin, which I think you do as well. The trader who ramped up his contract size is a great lesson for him, and he will not do that again I am quite sure. {quote} When you get back to your high water mark, you...
yes. that is actually a goal, but got caught up in the growth.

Ok. Going forward, will share weekly performance for couple of months until i get a hold on to this tilt issue.

Will post tradervue metrics to show any outliers. in the meantime, i'm gonna watch this over and over this weekend.

it's 4am here. and still up. Just been reviewing trades and reflecting the moments i tilted. I am fully committed not to ever let this tilt happen again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1DMrt8dhn4
  • #827
  • Oct 20, 2018 4:18am Oct 20, 2018 4:18am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} I replied (https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=11606092#post11606092)in the other thread. Curious how much was your initial principal deposit? Did you lose any of your trading capital or just profits? I could also never control trading 2 lots if I have a buying power of 10 lots. Profits can easily get in your head when you are 'in the zone'. Also, add this one to my list... 13) Are you trading to prove success to yourself or to others? Think hard whether your trading behavior would be been the same if you were not live-streaming...
Been thinking about this whole streaming thing and i have come to the conclusion that i ABSOLUTELY need to continue streaming. i wish i could record daily videos. the video archives i have let me see things in action and see where i'm doing good and where i usually tilt. watching myself again on the video is just freaking humbling. seeing yourself in action just "falling apart" and i'm thinking .."i can't believe i let myself turn that way".

So yea, video journal or streams is so useful in my opinion. couple that with regular journal, i hope that can help me fix this problem. ok this is my last post on this tilt. new week ahead!
  • #828
  • Oct 20, 2018 4:41am Oct 20, 2018 4:41am
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} yes. that is actually a goal, but got caught up in the growth. Ok. Going forward, will share weekly performance for couple of months until i get a hold on to this tilt issue. Will post tradervue metrics to show any outliers. in the meantime, i'm gonna watch this over and over this weekend. it's 4am here. and still up. Just been reviewing trades and reflecting the moments i tilted. I am fully committed not to ever let this tilt happen again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1DMrt8dhn4
Happens to everyone that hits a winning streak. What is great about this discussion is that you are talking about the pitfalls of winning. You are also doing homework on the weekend, a telltale sign of a professional.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #829
  • Oct 20, 2018 6:34am Oct 20, 2018 6:34am
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} Been thinking about this whole streaming thing and i have come to the conclusion that i ABSOLUTELY need to continue streaming. i wish i could record daily videos. the video archives i have let me see things in action and see where i'm doing good and where i usually tilt. watching myself again on the video is just freaking humbling. seeing yourself in action just "falling apart" and i'm thinking .."i can't believe i let myself turn that way". So yea, video journal or streams is so useful in my opinion. couple that with regular journal, i...
You can record them. You are using XSplit for your streams. It has the option to record as well. If your hard drive isn't big enough you can pick up a simple usb hard drive. They don't cost much. I wouldn't rely on YouTube to keep your archives.

Best of luck in earning it all back. I am rooting for you. You can do this.
  • #830
  • Oct 20, 2018 10:01am Oct 20, 2018 10:01am
Quoting magnumfreak
{quote} You can record them. You are using XSplit for your streams. It has the option to record as well. If your hard drive isn't big enough you can pick up a simple usb hard drive. They don't cost much. I wouldn't rely on YouTube to keep your archives. Best of luck in earning it all back. I am rooting for you. You can do this.
Costco is best... pocket sized newer models are now 8TB for just $120. I also bought a new "solid state" USB drive 500GB in size rugged, waterproof etc. It is twice as fast as a flash drive and comes with 2yr recovery subscription included. I now run Sierra straight from this encrypted USB drive. Worth the investment to secure and protect your data and have some peace of mind.
Staying in my lane...
  • #831
  • Oct 20, 2018 10:12am Oct 20, 2018 10:12am
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} Been thinking about this whole streaming thing and i have come to the conclusion that i ABSOLUTELY need to continue streaming. i wish i could record daily videos. the video archives i have let me see things in action and see where i'm doing good and where i usually tilt. watching myself again on the video is just freaking humbling. seeing yourself in action just "falling apart" and i'm thinking .."i can't believe i let myself turn that way". So yea, video journal or streams is so useful in my opinion. couple that with regular journal, i...
Yeah... I am not questioning the importance of keeping a video journal. It is a valuable tool and I will start doing something similar but only for my own use.

At the end, the most important thing towards bottom line PnL outcome (for me) is
1. entry and exit %efficiency (to measure accuracy)
2. average return on time vs effort in either $/hour or $/day.
Staying in my lane...
  • #832
  • Edited 11:47pm Oct 20, 2018 10:37am | Edited 11:47pm
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} i basically wiped out 1.5months of profit. i had 25k coming in ..now sitting just over 30k (from high around 75k believe it or not-last few days i got 2 runners). it's mentally devastating. not the first time i go through this. reminds me of forex days..equity all over the damn place. personally the stream doesn't really affect me. i'm used to the "public eye" trading with TE, myfxbook etc. streaming is nice cause i don't need to edit videos and can interact with folks if they have ideas. better than screenshot and less work to be honest....
Leveraging your floating profits for more exponential growth comes with downward risk. It would be interesting to see your sequence of trades. I never increase my position size during session but increase my trade count... probably the same but helps me to spread my entries.
Staying in my lane...
  • #833
  • Oct 20, 2018 10:37am Oct 20, 2018 10:37am
Problem I have with video journal is that sometimes I do trade at work. This is of course on days I know I will be not distracted. But I cannot record at work, xsplit slows my work computer so much.

I can for sure do recordings for Asian and euro session. But not capturing the US session every time sucks because that's the tilt session so far lol.

Another option I have is inviting a mentor to my tradervue journal. That person can access my trades I load up and provide feedback. If that's the case, who's the pro who wants to help monitor? Divergence?

This good idea?

Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Leveraging your floating profits for more exponential growth comes with downward risk. It would be interesting to see your sequence of trades. I never increase my position size during session but increase my trade count... probably the same but helps me to spread my entries. Here's mine on day1 of futures trading (noob getting fucked by not deducting 1 tick towards trading costs!). I completely understand what you are going through. Hopefully you will feel a little better knowing you are not alone lol Fortunately, my initial deposit is only...
Increasing trade count doesn't make sense for me. I have rules for setups so taking additional trades would violate that. My issue is increasing size too quickly when I'm on a hot streak and tilting
  • #834
  • Oct 20, 2018 10:48am Oct 20, 2018 10:48am
Quoting hilmy83
Problem I have with video journal is that sometimes I do trade at work. This is of course on days I know I will be not distracted. But I cannot record at work, xsplit slows my work computer so much. I can for sure do recordings for Asian and euro session. But not capturing the US session every time sucks because that's the tilt session so far lol. Another option I have is inviting a mentor to my tradervue journal. That person can access my trades I load up and provide feedback. If that's the case, who's the pro who wants to help monitor? Divergence?...
Perhaps you are a tougher than I am. IMO, it is the worst idea to a) trade from work b) letting others be a critic. I did Point b once.... it will shutter your confidence and create more doubts, fear, hesitation, shoulda/coulda/woulda. It fucked me up big time listening to others. If you can trade (which you surely can), if you can make money (which you surely can), then the ownership lies solely upon you to fix this yourself instead of relying on someone else to tell you what's wrong. You have the problem statement starring at you bro. Get to work and find a way to fix it. This is a temporary setback. Turn your suffering into strength and turn this fucking ship around. Easier said than done for sure but then nothing comes easy in this profession without blood and sweat.
I think in the core of what I am seeing, you need to pick a session and limit your screentime. if asian and Eur session are profitable, why bother with US session?

p.s. you got some gigantic balls telling everyone on the internet that you trade from work :-)
Staying in my lane...
  • #835
  • Edited 11:10am Oct 20, 2018 10:57am | Edited 11:10am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Perhaps you are a tougher than I am. IMO, it is the worst idea to a) trade from work b) letting others be a critic. I did Point b once.... it will shutter your confidence and create more doubts, fear, hesitation, shoulda/coulda/woulda. It fucked me up big time listening to others. If you can trade (which you surely can), if you can make money (which you surely can), then the ownership lies solely upon you to fix this yourself instead of relying on someone else to tell you what's wrong. You have the problem statement starring at you bro....
the funny thing is, the US sessions were the session i made the big money, almost doubling my account twice. but it's also my biggest loser due to TILT. i don't think it's different in a sense that i can never make money, this is all risk and mindset.

I know what the problem is. tilting from missed or misread trades. I watched couple of videos where i did that in the past. and it's usually after normal losses.

i need to control only 2 things:
1. size during session (NEVER increase in a session after a planned out size beforehand)
2. max losing trade setups per session

i think i can control #2 better than #1.

but you're right, it's on me to fix this.

I wonder if taking the cancun vacation affected my mindset.

if you ever watch "floored" documentary, there is this trader that mentions you usually fuck up after you go on vacation or big purchase.

it starts at 34:32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--H8SY334Zw&t=3368s
  • #836
  • Edited 11:47am Oct 20, 2018 11:32am | Edited 11:47am
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} the funny thing is, the US sessions were the session i made the big money, almost doubling my account twice. but it's also my biggest loser due to TILT. i don't think it's different in a sense that i can never make money, this is all risk and mindset. I know what the problem is. tilting from missed or misread trades. I watched couple of videos where i did that in the past. and it's usually after normal losses. i need to control only 2 things: 1. size during session (NEVER increase in a session after a planned out size beforehand) 2. max...
It's so easy to preach... I wont mind reviewing your trades for 20% of your weekly profits LMAO

EDIT: sign up with Showtime and watch the show "Billions". The trading performance coach plays a fascinating role with trader's mindset. At the end, it's all tied to experience, knowledge, understanding, skills and mental stability.

EDIT1: Timing is perfect for all of us to do this (https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/evaluate-your-life-day/)
Staying in my lane...
  • #837
  • Oct 20, 2018 12:21pm Oct 20, 2018 12:21pm
Quoting hilmy83
Problem I have with video journal is that sometimes I do trade at work. This is of course on days I know I will be not distracted. But I cannot record at work, xsplit slows my work computer so much. I can for sure do recordings for Asian and euro session. But not capturing the US session every time sucks because that's the tilt session so far lol. Another option I have is inviting a mentor to my tradervue journal. That person can access my trades I load up and provide feedback. If that's the case, who's the pro who wants to help monitor? Divergence?...
not a good idea.
would be a lag in monitoring, as well as no real physical ability to lock you out/protect from yourself when needed.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #838
  • Oct 20, 2018 12:28pm Oct 20, 2018 12:28pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} not a good idea. would be a lag in monitoring, as well as no real physical ability to lock you out/protect from yourself when needed.
yea. no point of doing that. it really boils down to emotional intelligence. starting to realize i'm emotionally retarded maybe

need to work out more, meditate, maybe play more fifa :-) somethign to just let loose and not get bogged down with trading

This is of course after having a solid method. no amount of chakra meditation can help with negative expectancy strategy. so this is what i want to enforce the belief myself, that I DO have a solid method, and that my issue is purely mental.

will be sharing daily performance (via tradervue screenshot and occasional videos) till end of this year. I'll include all trades entries and exits. i think feedback in that respect would be appreciated (especially detect my tilt moments or maybe constructive criticisms on entry/exit efficiency like vee said). If i can net positive, without tilting, then i can focus more effort on emotional intelligence improvement activities.
  • #839
  • Oct 20, 2018 1:51pm Oct 20, 2018 1:51pm
Quoting hilmy83
{quote} yea. no point of doing that. it really boils down to emotional intelligence. starting to realize i'm emotionally retarded maybe need to work out more, meditate, maybe play more fifa :-) somethign to just let loose and not get bogged down with trading This is of course after having a solid method. no amount of chakra meditation can help with negative expectancy strategy. so this is what i want to enforce the belief myself, that I DO have a solid method, and that my issue is purely mental. will be sharing daily performance (via tradervue screenshot...
emotionally retarded? NOT.

but we are just human.
can do 100-200-300 days the same disciplined ways, then hit one when for one reason or another emotions take a twisted move.
little consolation that machines also break down.
nothing is 100% foolproof.

i think your only viable option is full time trading monitoring, and given your trading, i think that is possible to be done, too.
but the answer it isnt mentor, or meditation...but money.

probably just my view, but i really believe that unless your "tilt" and slipping away real time detected and dealt with, there is no solution.
sharing trade history, is like looking back fatal car accidents; may learn something but that wont change the fate of those dead. ie. your trading is done, and that dent is done to the account.
i am also a believer, that these emotional flows evolve some, too.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #840
  • Oct 20, 2018 4:18pm Oct 20, 2018 4:18pm
pro gamers and poker players. the only people we can relate to. fyi, i also tilt on fifa sometimes. few broken controllers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAI9LZHMoZA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXqFxHiajuI

i'm actually just absorbing this.

again, i emphasize that, all this psycho management is useless, without positive EV method in place. So that's the reason to share, i'm gonna share my entries/exits, size, hours trading etc. This is to again emphasize the method is sound (imo) if tilt is not there.

So once the method is settled, the emotional work (harder part) will take place.
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