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Delayed Gratification

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 4, 2018 12:37am Oct 4, 2018 12:37am
I saw on the rookie thread that many beginners complain and wish that they get only 5 or 10 pips. They'll be happy.

I myself have problem holding on to 100 to 200 pips a week. The feeling of losing so much money isn't going to cut it for me.

How do you guys handle such delayed gratification.

There is an experiment conducted on the marshmallow test. And what they found out is those participants who manage to get 2 marshmallow actually do pretty well in their later part of life.

Their success attribute to ignoring the obvious.

So what do you guys do to let profits run?
You're going to pay a price for every bloody thing you do and don't do
  • #2
  • Oct 4, 2018 1:44am Oct 4, 2018 1:44am
Quoting newbietofx
I saw on the rookie thread that many beginners complain and wish that they get only 5 or 10 pips. They'll be happy. I myself have problem holding on to 100 to 200 pips a week. The feeling of losing so much money isn't going to cut it for me. How do you guys handle such delayed gratification. There is an experiment conducted on the marshmallow test. And what they found out is those participants who manage to get 2 marshmallow actually do pretty well in their later part of life. Their success attribute to ignoring the obvious. So what do you guys...
For those of us who do actually let trades run, you have to learn to do it. Learn to accept that a virtual, "potential" profit is nothing. Like mentally re-investing your trade profit back into that trade to see if it will grow further. Once you see 500 or 600 pips fade back down to 300 or so, it is a bit depressing, unless you're able to accept the the fact you were willing to take a guaranteed X amount (200 - 300 pips) for the chance to get it much higher. Picking tops isn't a valid option, but to get the increased pips you have to let trades back and forth, with sometimes fairly large changes in your potential profit. You have to ignore that.

At some point, you will need to factor in some process for taking off a trade. Whether it be maximum pullback of XX% or a signal that a major reversal is occurring (or could be).

---
Statistically, it's been proven that the majority of traders take trades off too soon and are bitten by losses that do slide a bit further than desired. So overall, they end up coming out with a loss, rather than a profit.

So asking here what people do (to let trades run), is incorrect. Basically, they don't.
  • #3
  • Oct 4, 2018 2:33am Oct 4, 2018 2:33am
Lol. True enough.

I've found a way to make up to 200 pips on a good week. The problem is. I don't hold on to the full position. It usually becomes like 1/10 of the lot size when I'm done with it.

Depressing.
You're going to pay a price for every bloody thing you do and don't do
  • #4
  • Oct 4, 2018 2:40am Oct 4, 2018 2:40am
The best I've come up with is to set SL and TP levels and then walk away. Seriously, I have to walk away from the trade and do something completely different or else I tie myself in knots wondering what to do. I decide on the levels before I place the trade and only close manually for specific reasons e.g. before big news or before the weekend.
It's hard but it works over a series of many trades. That also helps, seeing each trade as just one over many trades.
  • #5
  • Oct 4, 2018 2:41am Oct 4, 2018 2:41am
I don't let profits run. There are too many risk events driving sentiment shifts that results in few trades making it to a desired target level. I take what I can given the average daily range, scope of opportunity based in the underlying reason for the move, and time and price. To put this into perspective. If you take 10 trades maybe 1 of them has potential to do a runner but the remaining 9 not, so would you opt for a hold strategy overall to catch that 1 trade but lose or exit with hardly any profit on the 9, or do you opt for a strategy that takes a portion of every trade and thereby boosting profits overall.
  • #6
  • Oct 4, 2018 2:53am Oct 4, 2018 2:53am
Quoting EcoTrader
I don't let profits run. There are too many risk events driving sentiment shifts that results in few trades making it to a desired target level. I take what I can given the average daily range, scope of opportunity based in the underlying reason for the move, and time and price. To put this into perspective. If you take 10 trades maybe 1 of them has potential to do a runner but the remaining 9 not, so would you opt for a hold strategy overall to catch that 1 trade but lose or exit with hardly any profit on the 9, or do you opt for a strategy that...
But your trading plan seems to be exactly not to let profits run, e.g., almost scalping, news trading and intra-day trading.

So, in that sense, the discussion doesn't really apply. For the fact that there has been analysis of trades put on by traders where there was very good potential for far more upside, it seems to make sense that for many traders, letting the trade run would make sense.
  • #7
  • Oct 4, 2018 3:14am Oct 4, 2018 3:14am
Quoting Nefser
{quote} But your trading plan seems to be exactly not to let profits run, e.g., almost scalping, news trading and intra-day trading. So, in that sense, the discussion doesn't really apply. For the fact that there has been analysis of trades put on by traders where there was very good potential for far more upside, it seems to make sense that for many traders, letting the trade run would make sense.

It does apply and I don't scalp. How do you accurately measure how much potential a trade has especially if you haven't a clue what the underlying reason is for the move onwhich you are placing a trade? It's guess work and we all know how that ends up.

Would you choose 9 losers or break even trades while holding for runners and a 1*100 pip winner or, would you choose 10* 20 pip trades.

I might trade news but the same principles apply. Nobody has a crystal ball that tells them when and where you will get a runner or how much potential that runner has. By holding you are assuming more risk and by not knowing when to take profits you will never really achieve the right balance.
  • #8
  • Oct 5, 2018 11:32am Oct 5, 2018 11:32am
If you are confident that your position is properly placed then keep reminding yourself that the more you wait, the bigger your profit will be.
  • #9
  • Oct 5, 2018 12:47pm Oct 5, 2018 12:47pm
Quoting EcoTrader
{quote} How do you accurately measure how much potential a trade has especially if you haven't a clue what the underlying reason is for the move onwhich you are placing a trade? It's guess work ...
Exactly. You don't trade on information, you trade on information that you "think" will be a factor for a move.

I can't trade on how much movement the potential trade has going forward...because no one bloody knows, not even the price! Funny how I can still put on trades that get into profit and keep that profit, even being a completely...FUNDAMENTALLY...ignorant trader.

Why? Because it really doesn't matter. You trade on what you think works. Fine.

It certainly isn't the only way to trade. In fact, I think your method is flawed as you presume so much about what you think you KNOW about where the market is going to move. I make ZERO guesses about it. I just take advantage of it when it does go in my direction by adding on and letting the profits run.
  • #10
  • Oct 5, 2018 12:49pm Oct 5, 2018 12:49pm
Quoting james1254
If you are confident that your position is properly placed then keep reminding yourself that the more you wait, the bigger your profit will be.
Also, you need to be willing to accept the level of your SL (hopefully moved up to +5-10 pips or greater) if the price falls back.
  • #11
  • Oct 5, 2018 5:59pm Oct 5, 2018 5:59pm
Quoting Nefser
{quote} Exactly. You don't trade on information, you trade on information that you "think" will be a factor for a move. I can't trade on how much movement the potential trade has going forward...because no one bloody knows, not even the price! Funny how I can still put on trades that get into profit and keep that profit, even being a completely...FUNDAMENTALLY...ignorant trader. Why? Because it really doesn't matter. You trade on what you think works. Fine. It certainly isn't the only way to trade. In fact, I think your method is flawed as you presume...
You don't know how I trade and you definitely don't make any sense with this "you don't trade on information, you trade on information..."
I could step down to your level of arrogance on that but you're not worth the effort. My method holding an 80 percent win rate must be real flawed. Shall I bin it and start looking at Xmas lights and finger in the air guesswork? Before we continue this conversation, can you show an explorer. I really don't have time to waste on wannabe traders who pretend they know what they are doing and feel it necessary to attack and criticise. If you can't prove it then take a hike.
  • #12
  • Oct 5, 2018 6:18pm Oct 5, 2018 6:18pm
Quoting EcoTrader
{quote} You don't know how I trade and you definitely don't make any sense with this "you don't trade on information, you trade on information..." I could step down to your level of arrogance on that but you're not worth the effort. My method holding an 80 percent win rate must be real flawed. Shall I bin it and start looking at Xmas lights and finger in the air guesswork? Before we continue this conversation, can you show an explorer. I really don't have time to waste on wannabe traders who pretend they know what they are doing and feel it necessary...
I can only talk about how I think about how you trade based on what you say here. If you don't explain it very specifically or clearly, isn't necessarily completely my fault that "I don't know how you trade". (In any case, it doesn't matter to me one bit if you read tea leaves along with the local paper to decide how to trade.)

---

From what I stated, I do make sense.

You aren't trading on specific, clear, defined information that will do X in the market. Why aren't you doing that? Because that level of accuracy and definitive market impact doesn't exist. Therefore, to me it sounds as though (as you said, I don't definitively know how you trade - no kidding, Mr. Cryptic) you are making trades based on an interpretation of some combination 'major' news, report, etc., details that you have "decided", i.e., you "think" will have the market move in a particular direction. That's fine. But it isn't anything about Fundamentals that gives you some actually true clarity of how the market 'will' move. Exactly as you said, there's no crystal ball and no one can know how it will move.

I'm not a "wanna be" trader, so please don't stoop to insulting me. I know what I've found to work. Watching for trends and letting trades run, while adding to a position. No cryptic clues about 'extensive knowledge' of price patterns, technical's or any bollocks like that. Just get a signal of where a move might be occurring and put a trade on. That's it. It really isn't so bloody difficult.

In any case, this just comes down to the fact that you're arguing about a detail that has been statistically proven...traders take most profitable trades off too soon. Far. Too. Soon. There is very often far, far more potential movement and length for trades than what people actually achieve.


Lastly, why should I take a hike? I'm clarifying a very well known statement, referring to "Let trades run and cut losses short." Period. Simple. But you'd rather discount it because you happen to trade in some very specific (and somewhat cryptic) Fundamental based fashion. Oh, but then you use charts to review the current price, see where it is against previous price and then you track the trade on a chart to get out of the trade. But other than that, you are Fundamentals.

I have no idea why you decided to wade in here and basically discount the rather smart (and profitable) option available to all traders to let good trades run.

Trends...they do exist and they can be very profitable, IF people are willing to take advantage of them. Why don't you stop being so arrogant and dismissive, and instead, consider that perhaps that what I'm talking about makes complete sense.


P.S. Perhaps stop crowing about your account growth as well. It isn't nearly as impressive as you think it is. Just put it away.
  • #13
  • Edited 3:08am Oct 6, 2018 2:41am | Edited 3:08am
Quoting Nefser
{quote} I can only talk about how I think about how you trade based on what you say here. If you don't explain it very specifically or clearly, isn't necessarily completely my fault that "I don't know how you trade". (In any case, it doesn't matter to me one bit if you read tea leaves along with the local paper to decide how to trade.) --- From what I stated, I do make sense. You aren't trading on specific, clear, defined information that will do X in the market. Why aren't you doing that? Because that level of accuracy and definitive market impact...
So no explorer then just more waffle. My first post on this thread was a reflection of my own trading. You were the one that decided to tell me that my opinion doesn't apply followed by telling me how I trade is flawed. Who is the one with the ego? Who is the one wading in and interfering with the thread? Look in the mirror pin head. Did I start attacking your opinion, all I could do is defend myself from an arrogant know it all who can't back his claims but sure can back his massive ego. In any case you can't prove you know what you're talking about so everything you say is BS. Don't bother replying because I am done talking to wannabe traders like you with big attitudes and nothing to show. Having respect for fellow traders is forum etiquette but clearly those rules don't apply to you.

My account isn't impressive, I have made over 130 percent in 12 months, how much have you made pin head!
  • #14
  • Oct 6, 2018 4:11am Oct 6, 2018 4:11am
Said a lot more elegantly than I had patience for dkrock.
  • #15
  • Oct 6, 2018 4:14am Oct 6, 2018 4:14am
Here is a simple idea that lowers the DD.

When selling, open your sells ON or ABOVE the D1 Median Price (MA1 or MA2).

When buying, open your buys ON or BELOW the D1 Median Price (MA1 or MA2).

When the price goes against you, you will get smaller DD figures.

For holding profitable sells longer, close them BELOW the W1 Median Price (MA2) or ideally ON or BELOW the W1 Lower Price (MA2).

For holding profitable buys longer, close them ABOVE the W1 Median Price (MA2) or ideally ON or ABOVE the W1 Higher Price (MA2).
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #16
  • Edited 1:25pm Oct 9, 2018 1:10pm | Edited 1:25pm
Quoting Nefser
{quote} Also, you need to be willing to accept the level of your SL (hopefully moved up to +5-10 pips or greater) if the price falls back.
I agree. If you were following your trading plan your SL was placed where it was placed for a reason. Don't be impatient and close positions too early.
  • #17
  • Oct 9, 2018 1:25pm Oct 9, 2018 1:25pm
Quoting newbietofx
I saw on the rookie thread that many beginners complain and wish that they get only 5 or 10 pips.

They'll be happy. I myself have problem holding on to 100 to 200 pips a week. The feeling of losing so much money isn't going to cut it for me.
How do you guys handle such delayed gratification.

Is this an ironic post?

You say you aim for 100s of pips. If you are not chasing 5 to 10 pips, then you are doing a hell lot better in delaying instant gratification than most traders.
  • #18
  • Oct 9, 2018 11:14pm Oct 9, 2018 11:14pm
Quoting patterncode
{quote} Is this an ironic post? You say you aim for 100s of pips. If you are not chasing 5 to 10 pips, then you are doing a hell lot better in delaying instant gratification than most traders.
No. I'm just being honest. My strategy never change. Just the timeframe and money management. I still couldn't get my hands off once it hit 50 pips. I had to take the profits.

Then it went 100 pips.
You're going to pay a price for every bloody thing you do and don't do
  • #19
  • Oct 9, 2018 11:59pm Oct 9, 2018 11:59pm
Quoting newbietofx
{quote} No. I'm just being honest. My strategy never change. Just the timeframe and money management. I still couldn't get my hands off once it hit 50 pips. I had to take the profits. Then it went 100 pips.
Imo the issue is not how many pips you can make but how many pips sl or risks you use to make those pip. If every trade you used 10~15 pips to make 50 pips then you will make buku money in no time becos of this sound mm and your robust trading method. At this rate you don't even need to be right always but 60% win rate is good enough to pull in some serious breads.

Cheers
  • #20
  • Oct 10, 2018 12:36am Oct 10, 2018 12:36am
Quoting genghistar
{quote} Imo the issue is not how many pips you can make but how many pips sl or risks you use to make those pip. If every trade you used 10~15 pips to make 50 pips then you will make buku money in no time becos of this sound mm and your robust trading method. At this rate you don't even need to be right always but 60% win rate is good enough to pull in some serious breads. Cheers
Did I mention. It's once a week?
You're going to pay a price for every bloody thing you do and don't do
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