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Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #43,221
  • Sep 20, 2018 4:03pm Sep 20, 2018 4:03pm
Quoting PeterT
I've been a little bit undisciplined today. Lost about 30 points. Nothing to show today except "how not to trade".
Shake it off Peter. Back at it tomorrow
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #43,222
  • Sep 21, 2018 1:47am Sep 21, 2018 1:47am
Quoting Mr. Pip
{quote} Shake it off Peter. Back at it tomorrow
I lost even more in a trade that was running at time of post

I am always amazed how some days discipline can slowly leak out of me.
Before I know it I'm rushing into trades to make up the previous loser.
The strange thing is that I know I'm doing wrong stuff.
But I'm stuck in a mental state, hoping for a winner that erases these mistakes, so I can "start being disciplined again".

It's when the loss has become large enough, that I wake up from the nightmare and I have to lick my wounds.
I'm sure it's recognizable for many

Positive thing is, I'm doing this less and less often. I guess it gets better with experience.

Well, new day, new opportunities, good luck to everyone, and stay disciplined!
  • #43,223
  • Sep 21, 2018 5:02am Sep 21, 2018 5:02am
Quoting PeterT
{quote} I lost even more in a trade that was running at time of post I am always amazed how some days discipline can slowly leak out of me. Before I know it I'm rushing into trades to make up the previous loser. The strange thing is that I know I'm doing wrong stuff. But I'm stuck in a mental state, hoping for a winner that erases these mistakes, so I can "start being disciplined again". It's when the loss has become large enough, that I wake up from the nightmare and I have to lick my wounds. I'm sure it's recognizable...
You have to work on it, and make it a priority!

As you know very well I was in a similar situation. I worked on it for months and months. The thing is, you don't have to work on your "rational" mind, because that already knows that "its doing wrong stuff", you have to work in your habbits and emotions. Unfortunately that takes time, but good thing is that your "self destruct" mode will disappear, not only in trading, but in life ( at least it did for me ).

Make it a priority, work hard in being aware of what you are doing and why. Train yourself to relax after losses, to don't care. When I was able to finally "trust myself", it was a game changer for me. I believe in all Mr. PIP is teaching, but before that was pointless because I didn't trusted myself and knew that all the hard work and gains could be wiped at any day by rage trading. I don't know if I am gonna win the next or the next 5 trades. But I know I have a very positive expectancy. I don't really care about it anymore, because I trust myself

Good luck, work on it !!!
  • #43,224
  • Sep 21, 2018 6:28am Sep 21, 2018 6:28am
Quoting PeterT
{quote} I lost even more in a trade that was running at time of post I am always amazed how some days discipline can slowly leak out of me. Before I know it I'm rushing into trades to make up the previous loser. The strange thing is that I know I'm doing wrong stuff. But I'm stuck in a mental state, hoping for a winner that erases these mistakes, so I can "start being disciplined again". It's when the loss has become large enough, that I wake up from the nightmare and I have to lick my wounds. I'm sure it's recognizable...
I'm in a similar situation. Unfortunately my account is pretty down and i'm overcautious now, means i filter out too much, which leads probably to an unfavorable outcome of probabilities. As you mentioned - i know i'm doing wrong by filtering - but i don't know how to overcome this pseudo-protective behaviour.
I also can't simply refund my account.
It's pretty hard to take the signals no matter if the expectation appears weak or strong, when you know you are 3 trades away from the abyss.
  • #43,225
  • Sep 21, 2018 7:03am Sep 21, 2018 7:03am
Quoting pereiraalex
{quote} You have to work on it, and make it a priority! As you know very well I was in a similar situation. I worked on it for months and months. The thing is, you don't have to work on your "rational" mind, because that already knows that "its doing wrong stuff", you have to work in your habbits and emotions. Unfortunately that takes time, but good thing is that your "self destruct" mode will disappear, not only in trading, but in life ( at least it did for me ). Make it a priority, work hard in being aware of what...
Thanks Alex. I'm glad you got rid of this burden
How do I "work" on that exactly? How do you train this? Any tips?
  • #43,226
  • Sep 21, 2018 7:12am Sep 21, 2018 7:12am
Quoting MarkStan
{quote} I'm in a similar situation. Unfortunately my account is pretty down and i'm overcautious now, means i filter out too much, which leads probably to an unfavorable outcome of probabilities. As you mentioned - i know i'm doing wrong by filtering - but i don't know how to overcome this pseudo-protective behaviour. I also can't simply refund my account. It's pretty hard to take the signals no matter if the expectation appears weak or strong, when you know you are 3 trades away from the abyss.
Sorry to hear that man.
I'm probably not in the best position to give you advice.
Are you trading US30? Can't you trade smaller positions with the remainder of your account? So you can slowly build it again?

And to regain confidence in your trading, you can maybe switch to demo temporarily, until you are convinced that you are profitable by just strictly following your rules?
  • #43,227
  • Sep 21, 2018 7:29am Sep 21, 2018 7:29am
Quoting PeterT
{quote} Sorry to hear that man. I'm probably not in the best position to give you advice. Are you trading US30? Can't you trade smaller positions with the remainder of your account? So you can slowly build it again? And to regain confidence in your trading, you can maybe switch to demo temporarily, until you are convinced that you are profitable by just strictly following your rules?
I'm trading futures, yes YM and NQ, so no chance to trade smaller positions.
Sometimes i switch back to demo but then everything works like a charm, when the fear is gone.
It's really twisted.
I think i have to face i can't run away from my shadow and i just have to take the goddam trades according to the trade plan.
If i have the bad luck an catch three failed ones, there's anyway nothing i can change by filtering out.
  • #43,228
  • Sep 21, 2018 7:46am Sep 21, 2018 7:46am
Quoting MarkStan
{quote} I'm trading futures, yes YM and NQ, so no chance to trade smaller positions. Sometimes i switch back to demo but then everything works like a charm, when the fear is gone. It's really twisted. I think i have to face i can't run away from my shadow and i just have to take the goddam trades according to the trade plan. If i have the bad luck an catch three failed ones, there's anyway nothing i can change by filtering out.
If that's the only thing you can do, better wait for SOS3 signals then on those 3 trades.
Even if you have to wait for two days, don't rush into a trade. Wait for the SOS3.

Prepare yourself mentally and focus.
On SOS3 and good rotation, enter, put SL and try to completely accept the outcome, no matter what happens.
If the trade goes against you, don't panic, wait it out.
If you are a few points in profit, don't exit, wait it out.
Follow the rules for BE and trailing.
I know it's difficult.
Remember, you're giving yourself a much better chance of survival when you follow the rules than when you manually stop it for a few points profit.

The probability of three losers in a row is not very high.
You still have a good chance to survive.
Just don't trade like you have only 3 trades left.
Make the best of that one trade that you are trading.
Even if you have 2 losers, trade the last trade with the best you can give.

And if you do all that, and you still lose 3 trades in a row, then you know you have done all you could.
And you will have no reason to blame yourself.

Be strong and good luck
  • #43,229
  • Sep 21, 2018 8:01am Sep 21, 2018 8:01am
Quoting MarkStan
{quote} I'm trading futures, yes YM and NQ, so no chance to trade smaller positions. Sometimes i switch back to demo but then everything works like a charm, when the fear is gone. It's really twisted. I think i have to face i can't run away from my shadow and i just have to take the goddam trades according to the trade plan. If i have the bad luck an catch three failed ones, there's anyway nothing i can change by filtering out.
I recognize what you say, I am the king of demo trading and backtesting and as soon as I go with my real account, I got stopped out by 1 point to see target gets reached or miss setups. Not that I make big mistakes but a lot of the time it is just close but not close enough so I ended with a loss.

Did you saw Damians last livestream? It's a perfect lesson of continue with follow your rules and you will come out on top after a loss
  • #43,230
  • Sep 21, 2018 8:14am Sep 21, 2018 8:14am
Quoting PeterT
{quote} If that's the only thing you can do, better wait for SOS3 signals then on those 3 trades. Even if you have to wait for two days, don't rush into a trade. Wait for the SOS3. Prepare yourself mentally and focus. On SOS3 and good rotation, enter, put SL and try to completely accept the outcome, no matter what happens. If the trade goes against you, don't panic, wait it out. If you are a few points in profit, don't exit, wait it out. Follow the rules for BE and trailing. I know it's difficult. Remember, you're giving yourself a much better chance...
yes you're right!
I was thinking in the same direction.
SOS-3 is ratio, structure confluence and pattern completion, right?

I had also very good results with SOS-2 + double top / double bottom
  • #43,231
  • Sep 21, 2018 8:17am Sep 21, 2018 8:17am
Quoting Nikster
{quote} I recognize what you say, I am the king of demo trading and backtesting and as soon as I go with my real account, I got stopped out by 1 point to see target gets reached or miss setups. Not that I make big mistakes but a lot of the time it is just close but not close enough so I ended with a loss. Did you saw Damians last livestream? It's a perfect lesson of continue with follow your rules and you will come out on top after a loss
Yes i've watched damian's last live stream, it's a textbook example
  • #43,232
  • Sep 21, 2018 8:39am Sep 21, 2018 8:39am
Quoting MarkStan
{quote} I'm trading futures, yes YM and NQ, so no chance to trade smaller positions. Sometimes i switch back to demo but then everything works like a charm, when the fear is gone. It's really twisted. I think i have to face i can't run away from my shadow and i just have to take the goddam trades according to the trade plan. If i have the bad luck an catch three failed ones, there's anyway nothing i can change by filtering out.
Maybe a solution if you think you have a positive edge is to try topsteptrader or Earn2Trade. I think Earn2Trade would be a better fit for Damian's strategy since you can define your own rules.
  • #43,233
  • Sep 21, 2018 9:03am Sep 21, 2018 9:03am
First trade
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (144 Tick) 2018_09_21 (10_02_55 AM).png Size: 58 KB
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #43,234
  • Sep 21, 2018 9:15am Sep 21, 2018 9:15am
I've had better days. Many small losses with a couple of good wins. I am down a bit for the day.

....I should have chosen a better chart to trade. The 144Tick is a bit better, but not much
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EA #3.png Size: 71 KB
As the lights go by so too do the shadows move
  • #43,235
  • Sep 21, 2018 9:22am Sep 21, 2018 9:22am
Here is what I mean, stopped out to see target got reached. I was planning to trail it once the 61.8 was reached because it also was a good setup for a C-trade in line with the OF
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (144 Tick) 2018_09_21 (16_20_43).png Size: 47 KB
  • #43,236
  • Sep 21, 2018 9:36am Sep 21, 2018 9:36am
Quoting PeterT
{quote} Thanks Alex. I'm glad you got rid of this burden How do I "work" on that exactly? How do you train this? Any tips?
try taking the same trade simultaneously live and with a demo account. Use absolutely strict rules on the demo account, absolutely no exceptions. Compare results after 6 months. You may find your rule breaking tendencies outperform your rule keeping system, or not. But after 6 months of never breaking a rule, you’ll have a good comparison statistically.
  • #43,237
  • Sep 21, 2018 9:49am Sep 21, 2018 9:49am
Quoting PeterT
{quote} I lost even more in a trade that was running at time of post I am always amazed how some days discipline can slowly leak out of me. Before I know it I'm rushing into trades to make up the previous loser. The strange thing is that I know I'm doing wrong stuff. But I'm stuck in a mental state, hoping for a winner that erases these mistakes, so I can "start being disciplined again". It's when the loss has become large enough, that I wake up from the nightmare and I have to lick my wounds. I'm sure it's recognizable...
Well said my trading brother!!
Luck has no place in trading. Leave that for the poker table.
  • #43,238
  • Sep 21, 2018 10:00am Sep 21, 2018 10:00am
Just got back from the movies about 20 minutes ago. We watched "Alpha" It is one of those long movies that go by super fast.

First trade of the night. By the way.. I entered this trade based on a bat pattern I noticed on the 1597 tick. I used structure analysis from Mr. Pip's videos to enter on the 233tick chart.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (233 Tick).png Size: 46 KB
Luck has no place in trading. Leave that for the poker table.
  • #43,239
  • Sep 21, 2018 10:09am Sep 21, 2018 10:09am
After double checking.. I realized that I drew that bat pattern incorrectly. So, lets see if I got the structure analysis correct.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (233 Tick).png Size: 47 KB
Luck has no place in trading. Leave that for the poker table.
  • #43,240
  • Sep 21, 2018 10:16am Sep 21, 2018 10:16am
Here is a view from the 1597 tick chart.

That last two days I have gotten killed on the YM.. But made hundreds of points on the 6E. I also was getting killed by a head cold as well. Feeling better now and less brain fog. Now come on 70% probability! Do me proud!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: YM 12-18 (1597 Tick).png Size: 58 KB
Luck has no place in trading. Leave that for the poker table.
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