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Pinpars Rock

  • #41
  • Aug 24, 2018 1:06am Aug 24, 2018 1:06am
Quoting Erebus
Definitely Pin Bar of the week goes to AUDUSD, well done anyone that got some of those awesome pips! {image}

Very often, price will come back to the close or hi/lo of the pinbar before rocketing off again.

This is because many pinbar traders enter on a break of the hi or lo and go to break even very quickly.

Your Aussie is a perfect example:

Pinbar-> price moves up as anticipated, but then comes right back back to hit the pinbar break even traders' stops. Now comes the real move...............

Lots of ways to play this if you have a good think about it..............
  • #42
  • Aug 24, 2018 9:14am Aug 24, 2018 9:14am
Thanks to Feds Powell the remaining half of my gold trade was stopped out for a net 0.4% gain.
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Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
  • #43
  • Aug 24, 2018 11:38am Aug 24, 2018 11:38am
Fed's Powell speech resulted in some volatility and on Audjpy a high volume H1 candle with big wick. This was followed by an inside bar with another longish wick at a confluence of resistance (fib level, DR2 and WM4 pivots) Banking on the upmove being exhausted on a Friday afternoon. Will probably move SL to BE very quickly.
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Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
  • #44
  • Aug 24, 2018 1:18pm Aug 24, 2018 1:18pm
As it's getting late in the day I moved my SL to BE and reduced the target to support level MS1. Will close it manually if still open in 1.5 hours. Definitely don't want to hold it over the weekend.
Attached Image
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
  • #45
  • Aug 24, 2018 2:46pm Aug 24, 2018 2:46pm
Closed for 8 pips (0.7%) profit
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
  • #46
  • Aug 25, 2018 12:48am Aug 25, 2018 12:48am
Quoting theras2000
Fed's Powell speech resulted in some volatility and on Audjpy a high volume H1 candle with big wick. This was followed by an inside bar with another longish wick at a confluence of resistance (fib level, DR2 and WM4 pivots) Banking on the upmove being exhausted on a Friday afternoon. Will probably move SL to BE very quickly.{image}
That's not a pinbar. It's far from it actually. It's just an exhausting looking candlestick that worked in your favor.
  • #47
  • Aug 25, 2018 12:50pm Aug 25, 2018 12:50pm
Quoting CrocodileRex
{quote} That's not a pinbar. It's far from it actually. It's just an exhausting looking candlestick that worked in your favor.
You're absolutely right, but I often go by the wick itself, a pair of decent wicks, especially on the 2hr chart in the right place is a trading setup for me.

If you look at the move up, there's is one big massive candle from the bottom swing, with no wick, that tells us the market is well bullish, then a pause, looks like a high risk long maybe, but look, the first candle is bullish, then before the next move up, another bearish rejection, now if I was looking at this chart in real time, I would start to get very interested, and I would probably be looking at a shorter time frame for an entry. Then the last candle gives another bearish rejection, so we have 3 tests on the same level so up it goes. None of them exactly a pinbar but there's enough wicks there to show the market is going to continue.

Also notice that the wick itself on the 'pin' before the up move is bigger than the body of the previous candle and it's a higher high and the close is higher than previous close.
  • #48
  • Aug 25, 2018 2:08pm Aug 25, 2018 2:08pm
Quoting CrocodileRex
{quote} That's not a pinbar. It's far from it actually. It's just an exhausting looking candlestick that worked in your favor.
you're quite right there

it's not a real pinbar , but those bars are almost pinbars and most of the time work fine as well

it's up to the individual judgement of the trader to use them or skip them

but agree with you that they are not true pinbars
  • #49
  • Aug 25, 2018 3:48pm Aug 25, 2018 3:48pm
Quoting Gt3rs
{quote} Very often, price will come back to the close or hi/lo of the pinbar before rocketing off again. This is because many pinbar traders enter on a break of the hi or lo and go to break even very quickly. Your Aussie is a perfect example: Pinbar-> price moves up as anticipated, but then comes right back back to hit the pinbar break even traders' stops. Now comes the real move............... Lots of ways to play this if you have a good think about it..............

Hate to say I told you so.......................
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  • #50
  • Aug 25, 2018 4:21pm Aug 25, 2018 4:21pm
Quoting Gt3rs
{quote} Very often, price will come back to the close or hi/lo of the pinbar before rocketing off again. This is because many pinbar traders enter on a break of the hi or lo and go to break even very quickly. Your Aussie is a perfect example: Pinbar-> price moves up as anticipated, but then comes right back back to hit the pinbar break even traders' stops. Now comes the real move............... Lots of ways to play this if you have a good think about it..............
For sure, some do, some don't, and probably the one you don't trade will keep going, so what are you going to do?

Keep risk under control is the main thing



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It takes a lot for me to IGNORE you, but you can try.
  • #51
  • Aug 26, 2018 2:13pm Aug 26, 2018 2:13pm
Quoting CrocodileRex
{quote} That's not a pinbar. It's far from it actually. It's just an exhausting looking candlestick that worked in your favor.
Yes technically you are correct, but I can’t see anywhere where I called it a Pin Bar!

In the first post Londoniii mentions “hammer”s “Shooting Stars and Inverted Hammer”s so obviously his definition for this thread is not as strict as yours.

But feel free to continue your pedantry, it’s no skin off my nose.
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
  • #52
  • Aug 26, 2018 3:40pm Aug 26, 2018 3:40pm
Quoting Erebus
{quote} For sure, some do, some don't, and probably the one you don't trade will keep going, so what are you going to do? Keep risk under control is the main thing {image}
Indeed! Keep your risk under control.

But the answer to whether you trade the pinbar or you wait for the retest of the pinbar/stop hunt, call it what you will, is dependent upon your statistics that you are [should be] logging religiously.

If you prove [to yourself] that trading the retest is more profitable, ACCORDING TO YOUR RULES AND EXTENSIVE STATISTICS ON WHAT HAPPENS, then you trade the retest.

Otherwise, you just trade the pinbar.

And when I say more profitable, I don't just mean the percentage of winners, I mean, how much you profit in terms of R.

Let's say trading the pinbar straight off gives you a reliable 2R, but trading the retest gives you a reliable 6R.

BUT, trading the retest strategy, you only get a fill 50% of the time, so you miss LOTS of "straight" pinbar deals.

Which is more profitable...............................?
  • #53
  • Aug 26, 2018 10:06pm Aug 26, 2018 10:06pm
Quoting Gt3rs
{quote} Indeed! Keep your risk under control. But the answer to whether you trade the pinbar or you wait for the retest of the pinbar/stop hunt, call it what you will, is dependent upon your statistics that you are [should be] logging religiously. If you prove [to yourself] that trading the retest is more profitable, ACCORDING TO YOUR RULES AND EXTENSIVE STATISTICS ON WHAT HAPPENS, then you trade the retest. Otherwise, you just trade the pinbar. And when I say more profitable, I don't just mean the percentage of winners, I mean, how much you profit...
Blah,blah,blah,blah........a new bunch of headless chickens have discovered "Pinbars",a little research will show that the greatest fraudster on the FF, J16, hung his hat on Pinbars and look what happened to him.History repeating it's self.
  • #54
  • Aug 26, 2018 11:20pm Aug 26, 2018 11:20pm
Quoting theras2000
{quote} Yes technically you are correct, but I can’t see anywhere where I called it a Pin Bar! In the first post Londoniii mentions “hammer”s “Shooting Stars and Inverted Hammer”s so obviously his definition for this thread is not as strict as yours. But feel free to continue your pedantry, it’s no skin off my nose.
just trying to help here. The most basic definition of a pin bar is:-

1. open and close are inside the previous candle.
2. open and close are in the bottom third of the candle range.

There are many other small details that each trader varies but the open and close MUST be inside the previous candle. Your AJ chart is definitely not. I just hope you know that all these small details will determine your definition of taking potential setups next time. You will wonder why this AJ worked and the others did not.

You can download the indicator that Erebus posted here. It's very awesome and helps you find out which one is pin and not.

Here's a trade i am currently in for EA. Let's see how it goes. Trust me, the indicator is awesome although i am manually searching for the pins and use that for alert.
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  • #55
  • Aug 27, 2018 6:14am Aug 27, 2018 6:14am
Quoting CrocodileRex
{quote} just trying to help here. The most basic definition of a pin bar is:- 1. open and close are inside the previous candle. 2. open and close are in the bottom third of the candle range. There are many other small details that each trader varies but the open and close MUST be inside the previous candle. Your AJ chart is definitely not. I just hope you know that all these small details will determine your definition of taking potential setups next time. You will wonder why this AJ worked and the others did not. You can download the indicator...
Fair enough but I believe you are putting too much emphasis on how perfectly shaped the pin bar/ reversal bar is.

On my quick perusal of the indicator you mentioned it clearly shows that if you traded each “perfect” pin bar you would be losing most of the time. If you could extract the maximum profit from the successful trades then maybe it would be profitable but who can do that consistently.

Obviously there is a lot more to trading successfully than sticking an indicator on a chart and buying and selling when it gives a signal.

In this type of reversal trading Support/resistance, fundamentals (especially for longer term trades) market sentiment, trend, timing (time of day/week for shorter term trades), knowing where to exit trade or scale out, risk management etc, are all equally as important (on their own) as is the shape of the reversal bar and whether or not it complies with some strict definition. I think a lot of new traders get hung up on small things like this and miss the important aspects of trading or at least don’t give them due consideration.

But in the interests of peace and harmony if I post any other charts to this thread I will ensure that the reversal/Pin Bar conforms to the strict requirements of it’s definition (or is a hammer, shooting star or inverted hammer as mentioned by Londoniii in the first post). But if I see other posters posting non “perfect" Pin Bar reversals all bets are off, lol.
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
  • #56
  • Aug 27, 2018 7:29am Aug 27, 2018 7:29am
Quoting edge540
{quote} Blah,blah,blah,blah........a new bunch of headless chickens have discovered "Pinbars",a little research will show that the greatest fraudster on the FF, J16, hung his hat on Pinbars and look what happened to him.History repeating it's self.
It's just exactly that.Traders 'knowing' something that just isn't so.They see the J16 thread and its methods(not just pinbars) implode right before their very eyes but they still believe it works just like the 99%.The mere fact that they can't agree on what is or isn't a pinbar is a bright red flashing sign that should at least make them sit up and think. How can something which everybody sees differently possibly work in the market?

Let me offer some friendly advice. The phenomena that work in the market work because they are robust i.e objectively definable and repeatable. If they are objectively definable every trader in the world will be looking at the same setups. When they see the setups they place their entry orders at almost the exact same place(not either the break of the pinbar or the 50% retrace or at the market orders)and their large amounts of orders move the market past the entry point in the desired direction,not every time but enough times over a large enough sample of trades to give them an edge which they can wield in the market.

As an example the turtle method worked because that entry method is robust. Every person in the world who traded/trades the turtle method knows exactly where to put the entry orders when they see the setup occur and they all put them around the same place. That is what a robust method looks like.

Just my 0.02c worth.
  • #57
  • Aug 27, 2018 1:10pm Aug 27, 2018 1:10pm
Quoting edge540
Blah,blah,blah,blah........a new bunch of headless chickens have discovered "Pinbars",a little research will show that the greatest fraudster on the FF, J16, hung his hat on Pinbars and look what happened to him.History repeating it's self.
Just wanted to thank you for taking a huge dump on people's enthusiasm. Whether its new to you was irrelevant. It was new to these people and they are enthusiastically pursuing what each one considers relevant. Instead of telling people what doesn't work...why can you "trolls" chime in with something constructive. "pin bars" CAN work if you use this formation correctly. I've already stated what works for me. People here will eventually find out for themselves what works for them and what doesn't. Who are you to come in with a block of ice and cool people's enthusiasm for something that may in the end help them become consistently successful. Simply because it doesn't work for you...doesn't mean it can't work for others here...

Say something positive or don't say anything...we will all learn the negative aspects all by ourselves...we don't need your help on that.
@xxxx§|[::::::::::::::::>
  • #58
  • Aug 27, 2018 5:34pm Aug 27, 2018 5:34pm
Quoting DonPato
{quote} Just wanted to thank you for taking a huge dump on people's enthusiasm. Whether its new to you was irrelevant. It was new to these people and they are enthusiastically pursuing what each one considers relevant. Instead of telling people what doesn't work...why can you "trolls" chime in with something constructive. "pin bars" CAN work if you use this formation correctly. I've already stated what works for me. People here will eventually find out for themselves what works for them and what doesn't. Who are you to come in with a block of ice...
Sorry to deflate your tyres but holding hands and singing kumbaya won't work in this game....FX is littered with failures,BS artists,conmen/women,charlatans,snake oil sales people and losers.The old cliches of "make it work for yourself","positive thinking" etc are irrelevant in this game.....Oh have you watched "The Secret"?
  • #59
  • Aug 27, 2018 10:51pm Aug 27, 2018 10:51pm
Quoting edge540
{quote} Sorry to deflate your tyres but holding hands and singing kumbaya won't work in this game....FX is littered with failures,BS artists,conmen/women,charlatans,snake oil sales people and losers.The old cliches of "make it work for yourself","positive thinking" etc are irrelevant in this game.....Oh have you watched "The Secret"?
I understand what your point is and I agree there are a lot of bad /fake information in this forum. But by saying that pin bars don't work, it would be better if you can prove why it doesn't work?

It's like saying moving average don't work. Well they work pretty well during trending markets but failed horribly during ranging periods. So you cannot say that MA don't work at all.

If every methods don't work, which does? And most of all, why are you still here in the trading system forum reading / learning any new things? It doesn't make sense.

It would be a better argument if you have some solid points to prove that pin bars don't work when, where and which pair etc. Hope you get my point.
  • #60
  • Aug 27, 2018 11:48pm Aug 27, 2018 11:48pm
Quoting CrocodileRex
{quote} I understand what your point is and I agree there are a lot of bad /fake information in this forum. But by saying that pin bars don't work, it would be better if you can prove why it doesn't work? It's like saying moving average don't work. Well they work pretty well during trending markets but failed horribly during ranging periods. So you cannot say that MA don't work at all. If every methods don't work, which does? And most of all, why are you still here in the trading system forum reading / learning any new things? It doesn't make sense....
To prove my point all you have to do is start trading them with real money and I will guarantee that you will go broke doing so.Past performance of any technique is irrelevant....so take the challenge and start documenting your real time "pinbar" trades on this forum.Wishful thinking,hope and holding hands will not make you a successful trader.
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