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"Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade." Summary 37 replies

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Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #41,741
  • Edited Jul 11, 2018 7:30am Jul 10, 2018 12:42pm | Edited Jul 11, 2018 7:30am
Afternoon All
Didn't get a chance to trade this morning so traded the 89tick Short Term OF this afternoon for +60
Do not know posting rules so if posting this shorter term trading is a no no, I wont do it anymore
Hope you all had a Great Trading Day
Take Care
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Always Learning
  • #41,742
  • Jul 10, 2018 12:45pm Jul 10, 2018 12:45pm
Go Short on long term
miss out the short term long , price came down strong and before this the swing going up although momentum were strong but a lot of resistance as candle were small.

i going read you guy reply now , thanks a lot
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  • #41,743
  • Edited 1:23pm Jul 10, 2018 12:52pm | Edited 1:23pm
Quoting Bruin813
{quote} Okay, I will give it a try. Assuming I read your entry arrows correctly. By all means, I am not an expert but still in the process of learning. Thought this might be a good exercise. Mr. Pip, please correct me if I'm wrong here. {image}
For the first one , I am re-enter for the rotation before this , and I am trying to entry at 50% , I know this might not following the rule , but I prefer to get a better rr trade , and rotation do occur before this , and expectation still nsh.

The second one. I do notice it was a strong bull up , but the rr were good with a rotation candle .
  • #41,744
  • Jul 10, 2018 1:19pm Jul 10, 2018 1:19pm
Quoting pereiraalex
{quote} so , lets see if i can explain my reasoning, i don't really post here often, i do it more on the discord chart, where i usually talk with @chris every day. So, the red arrow was the move i was trying to play, its my short term orderflow. the red area inside that red arrow was the area i was going to attack to the short. I entered there and got some going my way but eventually, BE hit. The big red dashed arrow is my daily Order Flow... i don't trade this ( directly i mean, i don't trade huge swings/stops ), just put it there to show that...
thanks first pereiraalex

1. I understands why you going short , but dint get the answer why you dint re-entry after the BE
2. What was flexrenko chart
3. From my chart , I do have a missed trade to go long the short term which on my last post 41744( rectangle)
4. For your second reply , I not sure I been drawing the wrong order flow or not , but from a simple eyesight view it look that way was the right swing , ABCD , and CD was abit extended . I know from previous UPswing that failed , this down swing seem to be a complete swing with no correction yet , but it also depend on how you define previous UPswing, it has break 3 level of swing before we/ I confirm it was now a down swing trend .
i understand what you mean , even that swing I draw been taken out the expectations was still NSL, but Mr.Pip do mention before we can trade whichever orderflow we chose and understand what we are trading.
but I won't take that large a swing for short term trading. Thus I choose the shorter range one.
let say if the swing I trade failed , I will still wait for another ABCD( as a base/confirmation) to complete before taking any trade. but that was just my talking , I might take it the large swing latter lols ( not follow self rule , nevertheless that was still a valid trade , I believe any swing with a ABCD completed can be consider a swing that valid to be traded, just my own view to define swing )
  • #41,745
  • Jul 10, 2018 2:11pm Jul 10, 2018 2:11pm
your welcome. If you want to chat directly, i usually hang at the discord chat server. As a programmer, i feel much better in an IRC kind of chat. But notice, I am as you, a learner from Mr. PIP.

1. Didn't reenter BE because the bears failed, at least in that attempt , to do any damage. Instead the bulls could stop bears and trigger my BE. That is very strong message. ( If bears managed to get below previous IOF swing, i would have reentered, even at worse price ).

2. Flexrenko is a special kind of Renko, not important, you can see it as renko.

3. If you do, then it meant that your stop was a stop of "If this gets triggered, then something is wrong with my analysis". In this case you are bull then, and you should not change bear just because Long term is still bearish. UNLESS you are used to trading two timeframes. Mr. PIP does this .... but it requires its mastery.

4. At first glance, I would too put stop and analyse that way. But that is an ABCD, and you don't put your stop in CD ( at least i think you don't ). you put it on A. in an ABCD, it usually does a retreacement of 0.618 of ABCD.

You can choose your order flow like you want .... maybe I am seeing wrong, but if you go short term, its those little swings and you are bull now , if its long term you are bear but stop on TOP. What you cannot is do short swings but then "join 2 swings together" to justify the still short bias ( or for elliot waves followers you can, and then join 3 ).

You have to notice that an ABCD is a reversal pattern. If D is completed, then you are bull ( in theory ).
Also, the trade with the retreacement you had before looks like a nice one ( good RR tradeoff ), but you have to admit to yourself that you are exposed to being stopped out. What you cannot do is put that trade, and if its stopped out count as expectation failure, or system doesn't work.

I myself am looking for that area, but I am not going to enter like i did on the previous swing that I traded like you ( where it entered area, noticed candle reversal and entered ). Right now in that area, i need an orderflow change, not only a candle reversal.
  • #41,746
  • Jul 10, 2018 4:45pm Jul 10, 2018 4:45pm
I ended up with +232 on the big move on a carry over trade from yesterday.
I also went long picking the top today and had to add to the position on a rescue attempt, got out of the 2 trades, -4 and +25.
So I guess I ended up with +252 on that move.
I should run one of those trading rooms where all I do is pick the top of big moves, seems like I'm good at it, in a bad way.

Mr. Pip for the live session will you discuss how you'll be dealing with our 950+ point swing in terms of your long term trading. I'm interested to see how you approach those long term trades over the coming weeks. Whether you will work with this large swing or allow another smaller order flow to establish on the 1597T. It may not apply to most of us on the YM because we can't afford it, but we can certainly afford to trade similar moves on FX and the approach would be the same.
  • #41,747
  • Jul 10, 2018 5:16pm Jul 10, 2018 5:16pm
Quoting 6288monkey
{quote} Yellow line were good trade, but blue line already NSH for your order flow? and this small swing imo not worth to trade because the spread already took a lot , consider your yellow line were perfect entry and exit with 7pips , 0.7pips already would be 10% of your profit. but the idea of trading the short term following the long term expectation were good now seem like I might miss the short term long trade again
I used the blue line to find an entry long since there was a break of structure. I was looking to enter long in the red circle with the blue harmonics just as confluence.

I tend to trade both the intraday and immediate (if the immediate has clear swings) mainly just to practice my decision making and chart reading skills. Although the immediate doesn't have a large return, it's just fun to trade if the expectations are clear and offer good R:R.
  • #41,748
  • Edited 10:37pm Jul 10, 2018 10:15pm | Edited 10:37pm
Quoting pereiraalex
your welcome. If you want to chat directly, i usually hang at the discord chat server. As a programmer, i feel much better in an IRC kind of chat. But notice, I am as you, a learner from Mr. PIP. 1. Didn't reenter BE because the bears failed, at least in that attempt , to do any damage. Instead the bulls could stop bears and trigger my BE. That is very strong message. ( If bears managed to get below previous IOF swing, i would have reentered, even at worse price ). 2. Flexrenko is a special kind of Renko, not important, you can see it as renko....
Can you post a chart to explain the last line ? " I need an orderflow change , not only a candle reversal"
i would like to see what was orderflow change , I must admit that I dint read the chart very deep( or even to say I don't know how, sometime you can read wrong and win, read right and lose , I can't tell whether I am right or not , but I lose more than win ) , just simply saw a rotation on good resistance area I normally would take.

i have taken short on the swing I draw that you said wrong , and another long on short term

edit: just think of a word Mr.Pip use to say " which was the order flow market working toward " < I think that was my way to find which swing to trade.
  • #41,749
  • Jul 11, 2018 12:27am Jul 11, 2018 12:27am
After some thinking , I find that the root problem was those trade that I took has more expectation failure than it should , and the problem was I join the total swing late or atleast not the earliest few

example I would be join the trade after 3-4-5 success swing completed and I get into the losing one.

my solution was to join an completed ABCD( 2 completed swing ) as early as possible or to say my next entry trade was on point E shall everything look good.

the losing was not causes by my entry prices because if a expectation has fulfilled I would has atleast BE results.
Now my focus was to fix that swing choosing instead of price choosing.

let see what can this change to my score.
  • #41,750
  • Jul 11, 2018 2:35am Jul 11, 2018 2:35am
Quoting 6288monkey
i have taken short on the swing I draw that you said wrong
I didn't said it was wrong, ( at least I don't think I did ), Its just that if its the middle of an ABCD, ( the top of CD ), I think stop has to be at A.

But stop placement is not necessarily bad at that place, although you have to admit to yourself that its in an "unsafe" place.

As an orderflow change, I mean the order flow that changed into bullish, turn into bearish, that same orderflow, because that one is the one I trade.
  • #41,751
  • Jul 11, 2018 4:13am Jul 11, 2018 4:13am
Any trade on 6E anyone?

would like to see those who trading smaller tick/timeframe, seem very slow on 233tick today

long term short BE

now waiting shorter term correction , it seem like buyer failed to correct , and seller were very strong. If it correct to just 38.20 , I might trade smaller swing shall the continuation occur completed ABCD swing.

i was thinking to go short before this NSL , but for that orderflow the swing are not broken yet but highly possible , still I stick to the expectation. ( it was a wrong move to go long at near 50% , should have waited deeper correction consider the projection and momentum were weaker )

i think now I read the price better after relook at Mr.Pip bar by bar and order flow analaysis , also the putting all togetherness video. THANKS
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  • #41,752
  • Jul 11, 2018 4:49am Jul 11, 2018 4:49am
Quoting 6288monkey
Any trade on 6E anyone? would like to see those who trading smaller tick/timeframe, seem very slow on 233tick today long term short BE now waiting shorter term correction , it seem like buyer failed to correct , and seller were very strong. If it correct to just 38.20 , I might trade smaller swing shall the continuation occur completed ABCD swing. i was thinking to go short before this NSL , but for that orderflow the swing are not broken yet but highly possible , still I stick to the expectation. ( it was a wrong move to go long at near 50% , should...
This was kinda what I was talking about in terms of order flow change. It actually didn't broke it ... but it did a 100% retreacement, which shows power to the bears. Adds confluence to the zone.

Like I mentioned in first replies, this area was a very good area ( I also had it highlighted in my first chart ). But I would not go short "blindly/just rotation bar" in this area. Would need orderflow to show bear power first, and then enter in the retreacement of that "power show swing".

I hope I am helping you and not confusing you. I have seen many times it break a good area like that and then continue on its merry way of long term orderflow. ( the case of M and W patterns ). If something that helped me extremely, was that I was using and abusing fibs alot. It helped to first mark areas of interest ( Mr. PIP has a video about that ) and only then mark fibs. ( Areas Of Interest being much more important than fibs, i was letting fibs get way too much important ).
  • #41,753
  • Jul 11, 2018 5:02am Jul 11, 2018 5:02am
Quoting pereiraalex
{quote} This was kinda what I was talking about in terms of order flow change. It actually didn't broke it ... but it did a 100% retreacement, which shows power to the bears. Adds confluence to the zone. Like I mentioned in first replies, this area was a very good area ( I also had it highlighted in my first chart ). But I would not go short "blindly/just rotation bar" in this area. Would need orderflow to show bear power first, and then enter in the retreacement of that "power show swing". I hope I am helping you and not confusing you. I have seen...
Ya , I understand better what you mean now haha

for area of interest, i dint draw out and also dint put much strength on it , I look at area of interest by finding V shape or ^ shape on candle formation. Fibo also just a level or measurement only , the most useful of fibo was 38.20/127.20 , maybe 50% also for better rr entry , else it provide no better benefit than area of interest.
  • #41,754
  • Jul 11, 2018 5:26am Jul 11, 2018 5:26am
Quoting 6288monkey
{quote} Ya , I understand better what you mean now haha for area of interest, i dint draw out and also dint put much strength on it , I look at area of interest by finding V shape or ^ shape on candle formation. Fibo also just a level or measurement only , the most useful of fibo was 38.20/127.20 , maybe 50% also for better rr entry , else it provide no better benefit than area of interest.
V and inverse shape areas are important, especially if it was where big decisions were made, and not just a pull back, but I also look alot at ranges. Ranges are fight areas, and as you also use tick charts, means lots and lots of volume/trades in those areas
  • #41,755
  • Jul 11, 2018 7:17am Jul 11, 2018 7:17am
Quoting bmdenton23
I ended up with +232 on the big move on a carry over trade from yesterday. I also went long picking the top today and had to add to the position on a rescue attempt, got out of the 2 trades, -4 and +25. So I guess I ended up with +252 on that move. I should run one of those trading rooms where all I do is pick the top of big moves, seems like I'm good at it, in a bad way. Mr. Pip for the live session will you discuss how you'll be dealing with our 950+ point swing in terms of your long term trading. I'm interested to see how you approach those long...
Where did you enter for the 232? Seems like you most of held over night as well.
  • #41,756
  • Jul 11, 2018 7:27am Jul 11, 2018 7:27am
Quoting 6288monkey
{quote} Update : Taken out now wait a correction to go long 2 lose , 1 BE for today {image}
What broker do you use?
"Luck is when opportunity meets preparation"
  • #41,757
  • Jul 11, 2018 8:30am Jul 11, 2018 8:30am
Quoting Sheeep44
{quote} What broker do you use?
It was thinkorswim platform , broker I don't know , but it only work on mobile device ( live data ) I will then place trade at mt4
  • #41,758
  • Jul 11, 2018 8:32am Jul 11, 2018 8:32am
Quoting pereiraalex
{quote} V and inverse shape areas are important, especially if it was where big decisions were made, and not just a pull back, but I also look alot at ranges. Ranges are fight areas, and as you also use tick charts, means lots and lots of volume/trades in those areas
Can further explain what range do? , I note that sometime range create a strong resistance and once it broke it can go one way very fast
  • #41,759
  • Jul 11, 2018 8:35am Jul 11, 2018 8:35am
Sorry guys, I have to change the live stream to Friday. Sorry for the change some things have come up that I cannot change. So we are on for Friday at 9 am. We will start early as I wanted to cover the two charts prior to the open. We we will look to start around slightly past 9 am
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
  • #41,760
  • Jul 11, 2018 8:39am Jul 11, 2018 8:39am
Good evening traders.


My first trade was -20.... I was in profit, but didn't lock it in when I could and got distracted with my job. I am now distraction free and I have my 2nd one locked in.
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Luck has no place in trading. Leave that for the poker table.
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