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  • #41
  • Jun 15, 2018 6:03am Jun 15, 2018 6:03am
Quoting OneOracle
Question is are you making money in Forex?? If you are than it doesn't matter how many are losing. Why would you care? On the other hand, if you are not making money you are part of the majority. All you have do is NOT DO what the majority is doing. How many are losing is still not relevant. Who cares??
It does care . Markets are rigged as you can see. 0,01% is the cheater.
POSTMASTER
  • #42
  • Jun 15, 2018 6:18am Jun 15, 2018 6:18am
Maybe look at adjusting your view, most people actually do make pips, most people loose pips we all do but some loose pips more than others which takes them back to point zero again or they just walk away. Personally i learnt the secret is not making pips or loosing pips its actually keeping pips which sounds simple so asking how many people manage to keep their pips seems a fair comment or how many people manage to keep their pips its the same ideology just a different view to adjust too.
  • #43
  • Jun 15, 2018 6:31am Jun 15, 2018 6:31am
If you ask why 99.99999% lose money, that's because 99.99999% of them are copying with 99.99999% others. Now that makes sense.
  • #44
  • Jun 15, 2018 6:48am Jun 15, 2018 6:48am
Quoting dean1star
Maybe look at adjusting your view, most people actually do make pips, most people loose pips we all do but some loose pips more than others which takes them back to point zero again or they just walk away. Personally i learnt the secret is not making pips or loosing pips its actually keeping pips which sounds simple so asking how many people manage to keep their pips seems a fair comment or how many people manage to keep their pips its the same ideology just a different view to adjust too.
Markets can be manipulated 99% of the time. As humans we believe what we want to believe and therefore 99% of people who read this post will I not agree because people live on hope. I will explain: We are all positioned and yet the big guy can see our positions(image playing poker where one of the gamblers can see everybody round and on top of that he´s got piles of money to push his way). Now, because this is mathematics, 5 + 5 = 10. What you don´t know is the formula to enter at a top or a bottom or what we call "sopport and resistence", I call it natural law where nobody can break through nor the big guy(these positions are the number 10 as a result of 5+5). You must understand that the holy grail is to come up with a mathematical formula that also consider time (hours, days, months or years). Forget about indicators as they all lag. The big guy doesn´t know the formula either but he has all the information plus the money supply so at a certain point(the big guy´s robot artificial intellenge) will corner some traders at number 10 thinking he can break through but he can´t and therefore he will also be trapped with some losses. This is when markets go crazy and then the media will say " a broker pressed a button by mistake", nonsense. So, if you don´t spend all your energy finding a mathematical formula capable of predicting forget about beating the markets and still you might never find it in your whole live. I read everyone giving advise how to win but i don´t see anybody with proof of consistant profits. "We believe what we want to believe" The market has its way if you understand it.
POSTMASTER
  • #45
  • Jun 16, 2018 1:11am Jun 16, 2018 1:11am
French official stats give 89% looser after 4 years of trading

https://www.centralcharts.com/fr/for...ques-forex-cfd

Another one
Quote
90 % des traders perdent de l’argent selon les études
Sommaire [Cacher]

  1. 90 % des traders perdent de l’argent selon les études
  2. Il y a trader et trader
  3. Il y a broker et broker
  4. Tout le monde ne peut pas être trader
  5. Combien de traders gagnent de l’argent ?

L'étude de l'AMF repose sur les années 2009 à 2013 auprès de 14 779 traders français. Il en résulte que 89 % des traders ont été perdants durant ces années. Ce chiffre peut paraître très élevé mais il est conforme à toutes les autres données connues déjà notamment auprès des brokers américains sur actions, Etfs et futures qui ont l'obligation de publier chaque année le ratio de clients gagnants et perdants. Ce ratio tourne toujours aux alentours de 85 % à 90 % de traders perdants depuis des dizaines d’années. D’autres études dans différents pays (Pologne…) vont toujours dans le même sens.


https://www.andlil.com/pourquoi-90-d...nt-187697.html
  • #46
  • Jun 16, 2018 7:03am Jun 16, 2018 7:03am
Quoting MatthewRoy
If you ask why 99.99999% lose money, that's because 99.99999% of them are copying with 99.99999% others. Now that makes sense.
Lol; actually following others is not a proper way; unfortunately most of the scammers offers this knd of automatic service. So, new traders should careful on it and try for only manual trading.
  • #47
  • Jun 16, 2018 8:59am Jun 16, 2018 8:59am
Quoting MariaEduard
{quote} Lol; actually following others is not a proper way; unfortunately most of the scammers offers this knd of automatic service. So, new traders should careful on it and try for only manual trading.
Lol you should care too....
Trade fearless not careless...
Syed Mohsin Ali Profit This Month: -299
  • #48
  • Jun 16, 2018 11:33am Jun 16, 2018 11:33am
Quoting mohsinali
{quote} Lol you should care too....
Thank you, but I have no problem since I trade manually based on my technical & fundamental knowledge.
  • #49
  • Jun 17, 2018 5:04am Jun 17, 2018 5:04am
Quoting Robinhood1
{quote} It does care . Markets are rigged as you can see. 0,01% is the cheater.
Well you will experience what you believe. Your focus creates your reality.
  • #50
  • Jun 17, 2018 5:20am Jun 17, 2018 5:20am
Quoting Robinhood1
{quote} Markets can be manipulated 99% of the time. As humans we believe what we want to believe and therefore 99% of people who read this post will I not agree because people live on hope. I will explain: We are all positioned and yet the big guy can see our positions(image playing poker where one of the gamblers can see everybody round and on top of that he´s got piles of money to push his way). Now, because this is mathematics, 5 + 5 = 10. What you don´t know is the formula to enter at a top or a bottom or what we call "sopport and resistence",...
Totally Understand and that is a great point of view to take also, for sure the players know on a low point at a given time people will try and enter same on a high point but its more than that it has to be - i respect the players after all it is their game not ours we just go along for the ride but honestly you can make a regular living out of this if you work at it and just spend some time watching the charts with no trades, that way you will see repeat moves all the time, and then not join em but you get to follow em part of the way .. 50 pips each day is more than enough for me ok last week was 370 pips things got busy on two pairs only and remember some people go for lots of pips some people set a target as they know what its worth - get 20 pips a day and u can make a million for sure and why as this way you get in you get out as soon as and then you come back the next day .. never go back in on the same day you hit target - like once the routlette table has paid you your winnings walk away to the bar and comeback tomorrow - that's my take hope it helps others to change their way of looking at the market
  • #51
  • Jun 17, 2018 6:42am Jun 17, 2018 6:42am
Quoting synicz
{quote} I apparently have related paper, but on stock daytraders in taiwan. Apparently their stats shows that less than 1% are consistently profitable over a 12-year period. But in any year, we have about 20% profitable (If i recall correctly). I will try to dig up the paper when I have the time. It is quite an interesting read!
So, you're saying that less than 1% hold their trades for 12 years?
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #52
  • Jun 17, 2018 6:48am Jun 17, 2018 6:48am
Unless you are the greatest trader @ about 55 percent winning trades plus you have the money management skills of a monk.....
The only way to be truly profitable is by scaling into trades over a long period of time. All trades become profitable eventually.
Back from the dead * ding fries are done *
  • #53
  • Jun 17, 2018 7:29am Jun 17, 2018 7:29am
You don't understand how random numbers work! (The law of large numbers)

The statistics are meaningless without the details.
1. How many trades. (sample size)
2. For what period of time. (time frame)
3. What is the percentage of profitable trades.
4. What is the Profit Factor.

For example a trader can make only 10 trades for the year. You cannot make any reliable statistics with this. He may get lucky and just strike 10 winners.
This type of "winning" traders which are counted profitable are in fact significant portion of the stats. Yet they are probably just lucky. They will lose everything in the next few trades. "Today's winners become tomorrow's losers"

The general rule is that as you stretch the time frame the percentage of winning traders gets smaller. In period of 1-3 months you may have 30% even 40% profitable traders. But, almost nobody makes money in the very long run. Over 10-15 years.

How to spot a real winning trader?
Or if YOU are profitable, how do you know that your personal result is not caused by pure luck?

The truth is you never know for sure. UNLESS......

Unless you make A LOT of trades. Thousands.
For example, if you make on average 1000 trades per month and after 12 months your profit factor is above 1.1 then congratulations! You are a REAL winner. Proven. Such result CANNOT be achieved with luck.
  • #54
  • Jun 17, 2018 12:04pm Jun 17, 2018 12:04pm
Quoting MariaEduard
{quote} Thank you, but I have no problem since I trade manually based on my technical & fundamental knowledge.
Both r disasters too....
Trade fearless not careless...
Syed Mohsin Ali Profit This Month: -299
  • #55
  • Jun 17, 2018 3:28pm Jun 17, 2018 3:28pm
Quoting zghnno
Seriously, where this repeated stats came from? According to IG "The actual proportion of profitable accounts across IG’s European clients for the calendar year 2017 was 24 percent. This is from IG response to ESMA call. Source attached. {image}
this stat is puzzling me; CFDs are relatively new products; yet IG claims it provided it for 44 years; literally since the 1970s.
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  • #56
  • Jun 17, 2018 3:33pm Jun 17, 2018 3:33pm
Quoting alphadude
{quote} this stat is puzzling me; CFDs are relatively new products; yet IG claims it provided it for 44 years; literally since the 1970s.
Lol, some brokers have NO limit to how much BS they can peddle It reminds me of Oanda and all their advertisements about how great they have been in the SNB incident and how they did the "right thing" for their customers (when the reality is that they screwed them over).

Maybe it's just a typo and they meant "24 years" !? CFDs are around since the early 90s and available to retail customers since the late 90s.

EDIT: After verification, IG is indeed around since 1974, and in their early days, they were proposing an "index" to trade gold. So you can argue it was a form of CFD, even if "CFDs" didn't really exist at that time (especially not under that denomination)
  • #57
  • Edited 6:43pm Jun 17, 2018 6:33pm | Edited 6:43pm
Quoting Mevo
{quote} Lol, some brokers have NO limit to how much BS they can peddle It reminds me of Oanda and all their advertisements about how great they have been in the SNB incident and how they did the "right thing" for their customers (when the reality is that they screwed them over). Maybe it's just a typo and they meant "24 years" !? CFDs are around since the early 90s and available to retail customers since the late 90s. EDIT: After verification, IG is indeed around since 1974, and in their early days, they were proposing an "index" to trade...
The CFD market is almost as old as the stock market. People started trading with CFD contracts more than 150 years ago.
You can read about this in many of the old books about trading and speculation. One of the more popular is the book about Jesse Livermore. And also the book which he wrote himself. (How to trade in stocks)

Here you can see how they describe the trading with "bucket shops".

In the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, the little guy who wanted to trade stocks usually did it in a bucket shop rather than through a stockbroker.
Bucket shops were set up in all sorts of premises, such as drug stores, hotels, cafés, etc.
In bucket shops, “trades” were carried out instantly at the price quoted on the board. The prices came from Wall Street by a variety of means, including ticker-tape and telephone. The advantages of trading in a bucket shop were:
• Bucket shops were happy to deal in very small amounts of money.
• There was no delay in trading caused by the time taken to telephone the order to the trading floor on Wall Street.
• Each bucket shop was an internal market, trading on quotes from Wall Street but not on Wall Street itself.
Bucket shops, in truth, were little more than betting shops, where fools were quickly parted from their money. Although most bucket shops were not dishonest to the extent that they would refuse to pay a winner or that they would pretend prices had fallen when they had in fact risen, they were adept in employing more subtle ways of profiting from the greed of the would-be stock trader..................
https://jesse-livermore.com/bucket-shops.html
  • #58
  • Jun 17, 2018 10:25pm Jun 17, 2018 10:25pm
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} So, you're saying that less than 1% hold their trades for 12 years?
Nope! Im saying that at the end of 12 year period, less than 1% of day traders are net profitable. Even thou at any year, roughly 20% of day traders are profitable.

This just goes to show that even a 1 year horizon is fairly short. Traders shouldnt get over-confident and think they have "skill" just because they are profitable after 1 year. Conversely, one shouldnt simply get discouraged and quit after a bad year of trading.
I look for value wherever it can be found
  • #59
  • Jun 18, 2018 2:35am Jun 18, 2018 2:35am
Quoting alphaomega
{quote} The CFD market is almost as old as the stock market. People started trading with CFD contracts more than 150 years ago. You can read about this in many of the old books about trading and speculation. One of the more popular is the book about Jesse Livermore. And also the book which he wrote himself. (How to trade in stocks) Here you can see how they describe the trading with "bucket shops". In the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, the little guy who wanted to trade stocks usually did it in a bucket shop rather than through a stockbroker....
They look similar products; however CFDs as we know it now; were invented in the 1990s targeted at hedge funds first. and were introduced to retail traders in late 90s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_for_difference

IG markets came to the picture in 2000 (as indicated in wikipedia)
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  • #60
  • Jun 18, 2018 2:35am Jun 18, 2018 2:35am
You can't win a fight without art of war like that you must have art of wining to win..if you don't have no matter day trading or position trading it's same only matter of time.
Trade fearless not careless...
Syed Mohsin Ali Profit This Month: -299
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