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The Rabbit Hole

  • #14,161
  • Jun 14, 2018 3:36am Jun 14, 2018 3:36am
Quoting Wayne2401
{quote} Exactly that is the problem, there are some many of them.

I think you lack proper perspective and completely lost the point in which I am trying to convey to you, as it is obvious with your being purposely obtuse in your responses that you want justify your beliefs.

Here, try reading this to get what is that I am driving at. Not only have your sources been proven to be fake, but they have been caught making things up! They (as in MSM in general) are heavily biased against Trump since the day he took office! That is a fact! The poll of 62% of Americans deeming Trump as untrustworthy is proof positive that your quoted sources are hilarious! Didn't you know that that same poll was caught for being manipulated due to the small sample sized they used to conduct that poll? Sigh!

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/365393-how-quickly-ny-times-forgets-obamas-lies-and-frauds

The point is Obama told just as many if not more lies and what you allege Trump has told, so why haven't you called him out or why do you continue to give him a pass? Like I said, your point is opinionated which is fine, but don't try selling me this hogwash as being fact!
  • #14,162
  • Jun 14, 2018 4:21am Jun 14, 2018 4:21am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} I think you lack proper perspective and completely lost the point in which I am trying to convey to you, as it is obvious with your being purposely obtuse in your responses that you want justify your beliefs. Here, try reading this to get what is that I am driving at. Not only have your sources been proven to be fake, but they have been caught making things up! They (as in MSM in general) are heavily biased against Trump since the day he took office! That is a fact! The poll of 62% of Americans deeming Trump as untrustworthy is proof positive...
I do not think you understand the meaning of the word obtuse. You asked for examples. I provided you with some. There is nothing obtuse about that. You do not like the facts, so you decry the source- ad hominem.
I have listened to Trump on Stern and seen him on tv, where he states one one thing completely different from another , on numerous occasions, it is embarrassing to listen to.
You keep bringing up Obama, we were talking Trump. Just because other presidents have lied that does not absolve Trump or make him an honest man. Bill Clinton is not an honourable man, does that make it ok to be dishonourable. Because Nixon lied to the American people, is it now acceptable that every president thereafter lies, you proffer a very flawed argument , by merely pointing out others misdemeanors. If my Bentley keeps breaking down, it would be a rubbish car. If your BMW also, keeps breaking down, that does not make my car ok.
  • #14,163
  • Jun 14, 2018 5:53am Jun 14, 2018 5:53am
Quoting Wayne2401
{quote} As requested a few examples of many more-....
<Applause Icon>

You have way too much time on your hands.

I like Trump

Some of the things he has done are somewhat bewildering, time will tell.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #14,164
  • Jun 14, 2018 5:59am Jun 14, 2018 5:59am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} <Applause Icon> You have way too much time on your hands. I like Trump Some of the things he has done are somewhat bewildering, time will tell.
Imagine the shit storms if he was negotiating for us leaving the EU...
  • #14,165
  • Jun 14, 2018 6:00am Jun 14, 2018 6:00am
Come on Smikester, don't CoC hunt, join in!
  • #14,166
  • Jun 14, 2018 6:01am Jun 14, 2018 6:01am
Oh, he's gone. What did I say?
  • #14,167
  • Jun 14, 2018 6:08am Jun 14, 2018 6:08am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Imagine the shit storms if he was negotiating for us leaving the EU...
We would be out by now!
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #14,168
  • Jun 14, 2018 7:16am Jun 14, 2018 7:16am
Quoting Wayne2401
{quote} I do not think you understand the meaning of the word obtuse. You asked for examples. I provided you with some. There is nothing obtuse about that. You do not like the facts, so you decry the source- ad hominem. I have listened to Trump on Stern and seen him on tv, where he states one one thing completely different from another , on numerous occasions, it is embarrassing to listen to. You keep bringing up Obama, we were talking Trump. Just because other presidents have lied that does not absolve Trump or make him an honest man. Bill Clinton...

Well according to Oxford dictionary the definition of the word Obtuse is:

"Annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand."

IMO and the points I made thus far in response to some of the things you bring up in your arguments such as Tax returns, bankruptcy, were completely ignored by you. Just as I again will reiterate that it is not a requirement for Trump to make his tax returns public, nor the fact that he didn't break any laws by having his companies file for bankruptcy even though you stated that he did personally in which someone else here too pointed that out to you as being factually incorrect, as well as stating being given 30 million from his father, which is also incorrect in which I also pointed out to you, but you ignored that or failed to acknowledge that too. That to me is either purposely being obtuse or intellectually dishonest, take your pick!

Yes I keep bringing up Obama, and therein lies the point that you completely miss, no where in my statements previously have I stated that Trump has always told the truth, but in doing so proper context needs to be applied here such as in casual conversations of the past, in some cases dating back many years IE: Howard Stern, and various other media interviews, etc., where he mentions something off the top of his head that maybe half right, then later it is used against him as labeling him as a liar. Many people are guilty for doing the same, hell, I am sure you are too, and I think labels like "conman" Liar" are a bit extreme, unfair, and exaggerated on your part! The fact is he has never hurt anybody nor killed people by such exaggerations, nor has he broken any laws. I think you exaggerate much in trying to label him as embarrassing, con man, and an outright liar when other previous presidents have actually violated the law, lied repeatedly have done far worse was the point I was trying to get you to understand. To me you are preaching a double standard and do much to discredit your own statements using such labels. The fact that every president including politicians lie all the time, its why its called "being part of politics." The fact you can't or fail to see that perspective tells me again that you are either purposely obtuse or lack proper perspective to put this into a reasonable context.

Yes I do like facts just not when sources you cited are well established as fabrications of the truth to be peddled out and propped up to be credible sources that we should take as gospel or accepting as facts, its questionable at best. While yes you did give examples, it's hardly what I was expecting as being something I could consider as being worthy, and respectable in other words don't be surprised for being ridiculed for the many exaggerations that are already established by news outlets such as the Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, NBC that are well known to spin narratives that are not factual that are present which make up the majority of your ridiculously long post! A point I guess lost on you.

Finally, you trying to paint my points as a flawed argument is absurd at best, when it is obvious that you were completely glossing over facts, only to revert back to your dug in position of hating Trump and viewing him as an unsavory character. That is totally on you, but it seems rather hypocritical on your part to also not include other previous Presidents who have done far worse, such as starting wars, and committing debauchery on young interns or involved in corruption at epic proportions. You say we are talking about Trump and I say compare other presidents who have done far worse in order to get you to see how silly your premise is and that in essence seems to be missed on you entirely, as evidenced by your poor car analogy that really has nothing to do with what I am talking about. That is what being obtuse is, and you demonstrated it perfectly in your last statement! But go ahead deny it, as I will expect nothing else from you!
  • #14,169
  • Jun 14, 2018 7:16am Jun 14, 2018 7:16am
Quoting jen101
Come on Smikester, don't CoC hunt, join in!

I see what you did there! Clever!
  • #14,170
  • Jun 14, 2018 7:17am Jun 14, 2018 7:17am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} <Applause Icon> You have way too much time on your hands. .
Yeah! That is putting it mildly.
  • #14,171
  • Jun 14, 2018 7:25am Jun 14, 2018 7:25am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} NO! Not completely off the point! You just choose to be obtuse about it and pivot instead. If you are going to call someone a con man, a liar, then at least be man enough to admit that every politician who has served public office before Trump has been the same. Obama, with "You can keep your Doctor" Bush 43 with WMD's, To Clinton of "I did not have sexual relations with that girl" to Bush SR to "read my lips no more taxes" Essentially they all lied, so why hold Trump to a different standard? It seems to me you don't want to do that for...
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Defending Truth, Capitalism and the US Constitution
  • #14,172
  • Jun 14, 2018 7:28am Jun 14, 2018 7:28am
Quoting Wayne2401
{quote} As requested a few examples of many more- JAN. 21 “I wasn't a fan of Iraq. I didn't want to go into Iraq.” (He was for an (https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/in-2002-donald-trump-said-he-supported-invading-iraq-on-the)\
Wayne, not trying to be disrespectful - - but you seem to be unable to back off and see the big picture. Here it is.

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Defending Truth, Capitalism and the US Constitution
  • #14,173
  • Jun 14, 2018 7:35am Jun 14, 2018 7:35am
Quoting Wayne2401
{quote}
Had to look up where you live. While I love the Brits and French because of the intermingling of our history and yours it amazes me how so many non Americans are such experts on our politics and our choice of leaders. It can be noted that I rarely comment on non American politics. That being said, I wouldn't trade my president for any 5 of other countries leaders.
Defending Truth, Capitalism and the US Constitution
  • #14,174
  • Jun 14, 2018 7:43am Jun 14, 2018 7:43am
Quoting jarhead
{quote} Had to look up where you live. While I love the Brits and French because of the intermingling of our history and yours it amazes me how so many non Americans are such experts on our politics and our choice of leaders. It can be noted that I rarely comment on non American politics. That being said, I wouldn't trade my president for any 5 of other countries leaders.
Damn. We were hoping to give you Corbyn, Diane Abbott and McDonnell in exchange for Trump.
  • #14,175
  • Jun 14, 2018 8:38am Jun 14, 2018 8:38am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Damn. We were hoping to give you Corbyn, Diane Abbott and McDonnell in exchange for Trump.
Nice one Jen, I would drive them myself, to anywhere that would have them
  • #14,176
  • Jun 14, 2018 8:42am Jun 14, 2018 8:42am
Quoting jarhead
{quote} Had to look up where you live. While I love the Brits and French because of the intermingling of our history and yours it amazes me how so many non Americans are such experts on our politics and our choice of leaders. It can be noted that I rarely comment on non American politics. That being said, I wouldn't trade my president for any 5 of other countries leaders.
I do not claim to be an expert. I do take an interest in world affairs, not just the UK. We are not insular , we take an interest, American politics does effect us. I see no problem with, reading, taking a view and commenting, I should not be offended should you do so with our politics.
  • #14,177
  • Jun 14, 2018 8:47am Jun 14, 2018 8:47am
Quoting jarhead
{quote} Wayne, not trying to be disrespectful - - but you seem to be unable to back off and see the big picture. Here it is. {image}
I do see the bigger picture. I have already stated, that I agree with many of the policies , actions and views of Trump.Migration, tax, NATO contributions, Paris and Iran agreements, , all spot on, I believe. That does not make him honest, which is what started the whole discussion. I can agree with him and also see when he is lying or factually incorrect.
  • #14,178
  • Jun 14, 2018 9:09am Jun 14, 2018 9:09am
Quoting Wayne2401
{quote} I do see the bigger picture. I have already stated, that I agree with many of the policies , actions and views of Trump.Migration, tax, NATO contributions, Paris and Iran agreements, , all spot on, I believe. That does not make him honest, which is what started the whole discussion. I can agree with him and also see when he is lying or factually incorrect.
It doesn't really matter. Trump is probably also a lech and says derogatory things to and about women, but that's ok, I don't mind. It's all totally insignificant compared to what he has achieved and will achieve. He can lech all he likes if he saves the world. We need to keep him happy so he can do his job!
  • #14,179
  • Jun 14, 2018 9:33am Jun 14, 2018 9:33am
Quoting jen101
{quote} It doesn't really matter. Trump is probably also a lech and says derogatory things to and about women, but that's ok, I don't mind. It's all totally insignificant compared to what he has achieved and will achieve. He can lech all he likes if he saves the world. We need to keep him happy so he can do his job!
I would not go that far Jen.
  • #14,180
  • Jun 14, 2018 9:55am Jun 14, 2018 9:55am
Quoting jen101
{quote} It doesn't really matter. Trump is probably also a lech and says derogatory things to and about women, but that's ok, I don't mind. It's all totally insignificant compared to what he has achieved and will achieve. He can lech all he likes if he saves the world. We need to keep him happy so he can do his job!
If he acted, anything like he boasted to Bush in that TV tape, with any lady friend of mine, he would be taking his food through a straw for a year, no matter what job he does.
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