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How many pips is reasonable per day for a day trader 33 replies

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  • #41
  • May 22, 2018 10:09am May 22, 2018 10:09am
Quoting DwainUK
@samekhanok, I think 10% monthly return is a realistic profit. So if you are looking for $20 per day, you should deposit $ 6k. Or if you deposit $1000, you could make $ 3-4 per day. Of course if the monthly return is 10%
lol, DwainUK, i think you dished out of your example assuming that forex trading is a 30 days a month activity
also, there is not much provision for the losing days, but that is a different story, right?

Quoting AmmaBoss
I have not been trading for very long , only a few months actually but I have already notice that at Forex factory a large percentage of traders think that anything over a few percent a month if impossible. In your case 2% a day can be done quite easily depending on the time frame you decide to trade. Trading intra-day on the 15 min chart allows you find at least a few good opportunities everyday. To make 2% a day , find a trading system that has a 60% win rate with a signal common enough that appears 5 times a day. A system like that is extremely...
indeed, trading is very simple.
or not.
after all not too many get it right...

love the words, everything is possible, bla, bla.
then hardly ever there is anything to back those words, they stay empty.

as a sidenote: it is very easy to make or lose large % on a small account.
end of the day who cares losing ( or even making) 30% of a 20$ account....it is 6$...a grande latte+ tip?
are you ready to bet the price of your car, or even better your house, on the same trades to make or lose 6k or 60k on the same great idea?
most would not!
the cost of re-set and re-start is just too high price to pay, however tempting that 30% day looks like ( if and when it is a winner)

if that 2% a day (or 40% a month) consistently would be that easy to make, you would keep seeing those track records.
not only, but the prop firms and hedge funds...nah, the banks themselves...would line up looking to sign you up right now.
newsflash: they would do that even if you consistently (on a long track record with low drawdown) make "only" as little as 40% a year with some 5 digit account...only if you dig a little, you will find that even that not so many can do...hmm.
maybe it will take another few months to understand this, and appreciate the answer as it is?
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #42
  • May 22, 2018 10:14am May 22, 2018 10:14am
Quoting DwainUK
@samekhanok, I think 10% monthly return is a realistic profit. So if you are looking for $20 per day, you should deposit $ 6k. Or if you deposit $1000, you could make $ 3-4 per day. Of course if the monthly return is 10%
Can easily make 10% on most days if you are in control of your emotions.
someone making 10% a month betting 1% on there account per trade can easily bet 5% assuming their win rate is over 60% and risk to reward of 1.
The only barrier to this is most human can not handle the draw down.
  • #43
  • May 22, 2018 10:40am May 22, 2018 10:40am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} indeed, trading is very simple. or not. after all not too many get it right... love the words, everything is possible, bla, bla. then hardly ever there is anything to back those words, they stay empty. as a sidenote: it is very easy to make or lose large % on a small account. end of the day who cares losing ( or even making) 30% of a 20$ account....it is 6$...a grande latte+ tip? are you ready to bet the price of your car, or even better your house, on the same trades to make or lose 6k or 60k on the same great idea? most would not! the...
There are many reason why a retail 40% per month and a bank / hedge fund 40% per month is totally different.
First A hedge fund is trading with other individual money therefore they can not risk a large percentage because as we all do know anything can happen in Forex.
Secondly everyone forget the one advantage a retail has over any bank or hedge fund , we can trade a large percentage of our money on the smaller time frame as we do not have the problem of liquidity.
Do you not think the banks would jump at the opportunity to scalp 3 pip at 3000000000.000 lots. Trading is simple and yes 10% a day is possible for a period of time after a while you would be force to trade the higher time frame or trade a smaller position size which make the process longer.
That is the reason why a retail can make 10% a day and a bank or a hedge fund , retailers do not have the capital that forces bank and hedge fund to trade higher time frames or very very small positions on low time frames.
  • #44
  • May 22, 2018 11:36am May 22, 2018 11:36am
Quoting AmmaBoss
I have not been trading for very long , only a few months actually but I have already notice that at Forex factory a large percentage of traders think that anything over a few percent a month if impossible. In your case 2% a day can be done quite easily depending on the time frame you decide to trade. Trading intra-day on the 15 min chart allows you find at least a few good opportunities everyday. To make 2% a day , find a trading system that has a 60% win rate with a signal common enough that appears 5 times a day. A system like that is extremely...
Something to consider. http://compoundaily.com/ calculating $1000 as the initial amount with a daily interest rate of 2% with a length of 300 days and a daily reinvest rate of 100%.

300 days because I want to oversimplify this. Assuming that brokers are open 24/7/365 (they are not) and a 0% drawdown (which never happens). Yes, there are 365 days in a year but 65 days for vacation/sick days should be sufficient.

That $1000 would become 380,232.51 after 300 days.

That's a return of 37,923%

Let that sink in for a moment. A return of 37,923%

Jim Rogers, one of the world's best known performers once had a 4200% return when running the Quantum Fund with a nobody named George Soros.

Something isn't adding up here...
Not all sins are created equal
  • #45
  • May 22, 2018 12:09pm May 22, 2018 12:09pm
Quoting AmmaBoss
{quote} There are many reason why a retail 40% per month and a bank / hedge fund 40% per month is totally different. First A hedge fund is trading with other individual money therefore they can not risk a large percentage because as we all do know anything can happen in Forex. Secondly everyone forget the one advantage a retail has over any bank or hedge fund , we can trade a large percentage of our money on the smaller time frame as we do not have the problem of liquidity. Do you not think the banks would jump at the opportunity to scalp 3 pip...
sure, sure.
i believe you soon as you show me that 10% a day over a period of time ( say 6 months+) ?
everything is possible.
ppl falling out from the 15th floor can sometimes survive it.
ppl falling from a bump on the sidewalk sometimes not.
actually, you may be surprised how much risks hedge funds can take, especially if and because it is with other ppl's money
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #46
  • May 22, 2018 12:21pm May 22, 2018 12:21pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} sure, sure. i believe you soon as you show me that 10% a day over a period of time ( say 6 months+) ? everything is possible. ppl falling out from the 15th floor can sometimes survive it. ppl falling from a bump on the sidewalk sometimes not. actually, you may be surprised how much risks hedge funds can take, especially if and because it is with other ppl's money
I'd be prepared to pay for an independent audit and if it proved to hold water, would let anyone showing that kind of return trade for me
Not all sins are created equal
  • #47
  • May 22, 2018 1:51pm May 22, 2018 1:51pm
Quoting samekhanok
Hello experts gurus i have 1k$ left i want to earn 20$ per day for living is it possible please i am ready for as much hard work as possible can any one suggest me any consistent system from which i can earn 20$ per day please hope for the best help Thanks
forget and deleted the think to get xxx$/day or xxx$/month. forget and deleted targeting on NUMBER. just always remember DO THE RIGHT TRADE(SPECULATE). and right or wrong is bias for every person, but even bias there is several fundamental thing that on unity. 1. forex is speculation 2. speculation is about probability 3. tomorrow is mystery or even 5 minutes later
we don't predict, we only ride
  • #48
  • May 22, 2018 2:29pm May 22, 2018 2:29pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} sure, sure. i believe you soon as you show me that 10% a day over a period of time ( say 6 months+) ? everything is possible. ppl falling out from the 15th floor can sometimes survive it. ppl falling from a bump on the sidewalk sometimes not. actually, you may be surprised how much risks hedge funds can take, especially if and because it is with other ppl's money
Over a period of 6 months is not possible , as when your capital increase , it will become difficult to obtain the leverage needed, also the liquidity will become a issue.
In other words there's a diminishing returns effect and the more you increase your capital , the longer the process becomes.
  • #49
  • May 22, 2018 6:27pm May 22, 2018 6:27pm
last 7 days i earned 10 to 30$ per day lot size 0.01

but the problem is every time i earn like this when my losses are running so now my losses are running from last 1 month and i was watching them 20 hours a d ay from last month until last 7 days i decide to trade on it because i know more what it will do next maby be little bit support and resistance

how can i control this now my big problem is stop loss

i want to learn where my stop loss should be

i am trading on 0.01 lot so just every time i think market will come back to my posistion if it takes 1 month so i never close my order


sory for my bad english
  • #50
  • May 22, 2018 9:45pm May 22, 2018 9:45pm
Quoting AmmaBoss
{quote} Over a period of 6 months is not possible , as when your capital increase , it will become difficult to obtain the leverage needed, also the liquidity will become a issue. In other words there's a diminishing returns effect and the more you increase your capital , the longer the process becomes.
Over a 6 month period is not possible. Then it's possible over a period of how long?

Say your leverage is 100:1, how does it become more difficult to have 100:1 leverage on $1000 than it would be on say $20,000 or $200,000?

How does liquidity become an issue if you have more of it?

Perhaps I'm being dense?
Not all sins are created equal
  • #51
  • May 22, 2018 9:49pm May 22, 2018 9:49pm
Quoting samekhanok
last 7 days i earned 10 to 30$ per day lot size 0.01 but the problem is every time i earn like this when my losses are running so now my losses are running from last 1 month and i was watching them 20 hours a d ay from last month until last 7 days i decide to trade on it because i know more what it will do next maby be little bit support and resistance how can i control this now my big problem is stop loss i want to learn where my stop loss should be i am trading on 0.01 lot so just every time i think market will come back to my...
This is account suicide. I respect your persistence but why not demo trade and make trades, in demo, that don't keep you up 20 hours a day?
Not all sins are created equal
  • #52
  • May 22, 2018 10:46pm May 22, 2018 10:46pm
Quoting Jay Walker
{quote} Over a 6 month period is not possible. Then it's possible over a period of how long? Say your leverage is 100:1, how does it become more difficult to have 100:1 leverage on $1000 than it would be on say $20,000 or $200,000? How does liquidity become an issue if you have more of it? Perhaps I'm being dense?
The period of time that it is possible depends on the starting balance and the emotions of the trader.
it would take longer to for the diminishing return effect to set in with a $100 account compare to a 10,000 dollars account. As increasing 10k by 10% over a period of 2 months would give you 450k on a 10,000 dollars account compare that to $100 over a period of 4 months would be only 200k.
Therefore the more capital you have the faster you will hit the cap which is the main reason why hedge funds and banks don't do crazy percentage. In terms of the amount of money they will make more than a retail but in terms of percentage on return they can't complete with retailers.
Now the concept of the diminishing returns is simple and does exist, let me explain it.
Try to think of a trader risking 5 % of his capital with a win rate of 66% , now he need to trade the lower time frame ( 15 mins ) in order to find 6 opportunities everyday, if he can this would allow him to achieve 10% a daily. Lets assume this trade has a stop loss of 10 pips and a take profit of 10 pips.
As his capital grows his broker will reduce the amount of leverage that they are willing to give him thus he would no longer be able to increase the amount of money he can bet per pip. in other words 10 pip will not be able to equal 5% of the trader account anymore, So if the trader wanted to continue betting 5% of his account he would have to increase the size of his stop loss and take profit forcing him to trade a higher time frame = less opportunities = slower growth.
The liquidity problem is due to the fact that every action taken by an individual in the market there must be someone taking the opposite actions , so If you wanted to bet 3000000 lots there must be someone or a group willing to buy 30000000 lots, this is the primary reason market manipulation take place imo.
How I have only recently started trading compare to many of you guys but you simply can't compare what a retail make to what a hedge funds makes in terms of percentage.
  • #53
  • May 23, 2018 12:07am May 23, 2018 12:07am
Quoting AmmaBoss
{quote} The period of time that it is possible depends on the starting balance and the emotions of the trader.
I can't make sense out of this. A trading methodology is either sustainable or it isn't.

Quoting AmmaBoss
{quote} As increasing 10k by 10% over a period of 2 months would give you 450k on a 10,000 dollars account compare that to $100 over a period of 4 months would be only 200k.
Do you have the math to back this up?

Quoting AmmaBoss
{quote} Try to think of a trader risking 5 % of his capital with a win rate of 66% , now he need to trade the lower time frame ( 15 mins ) in order to find 6 opportunities everyday, if he can this would allow him to achieve 10% a daily.
You cannot guarantee that each and every day will have 6 opportunities.

Quoting AmmaBoss
{quote}Lets assume this trade has a stop loss of 10 pips and a take profit of 10 pips.
Why a 1:1 risk/reward ratio? It's the first time in my life that I hear of a 1:1 risk/reward ratio. That is definitely not a good return.

Quoting AmmaBoss
{quote} As his capital grows his broker will reduce the amount of leverage that they are willing to give him
Either I've been blind for 15 years or this is absolute nonsense. I have never seen leverage change based on account size. Let's look at the brokers listed on Forex Factory at https://www.forexfactory.com/brokers.php. You mean to tell me that their leverage advertised changes based on account size?
Not all sins are created equal
  • #54
  • May 23, 2018 4:05am May 23, 2018 4:05am
Quoting Jay Walker
{quote} I can't make sense out of this. A trading methodology is either sustainable or it isn't. {quote} Do you have the math to back this up? {quote} You cannot guarantee that each and every day will have 6 opportunities. {quote} Why a 1:1 risk/reward ratio? It's the first time in my life that I hear of a 1:1 risk/reward ratio. That is definitely not a good return. {quote} Either I've been blind for 15 years or this is absolute nonsense. I have never seen leverage change based on account size. Let's look at the brokers listed on Forex Factory at...
Firstly this have nothing do on the method used by the trader , I am just explain to you why a hedge fund only make 40% a year , A retailer can make 40% a week + for a given period of time as there's a diminishing returns effect in the market.
Secondly simple math 10,000 compounded by 10% , 40 times is 450 K , 100 compounded by 10% 80 times is 200k , just google it man.
thirdly it does not matter if the market give you 6 trades everyday that have nothing to do with what we were discussing, I was simply saying that you in order for you to get enough opportunities you need to trade the smaller time frames as if you were to trade the 4 hr chart you would never get 6 trades a day.
fourthly that 1:1 is just a example it could be 1:2 with 50% win rate at this point the trader would just need less trades to hit his target depending on his winrate.
lastly if you have been trading 15 years and you not not know, then you probably just don't have enough capital for it to matter , also a simple google search would prove my point.
https://www.activtrades.com/en/forex.../forex-margins
  • #55
  • May 23, 2018 8:50am May 23, 2018 8:50am
Quoting AmmaBoss
{quote} Firstly this have nothing do on the method used by the trader , I am just explain to you why a hedge fund only make 40% a year , A retailer can make 40% a week + for a given period of time as there's a diminishing returns effect in the market. Secondly simple math 10,000 compounded by 10% , 40 times is 450 K , 100 compounded by 10% 80 times is 200k , just google it man. thirdly it does not matter if the market give you 6 trades everyday that have nothing to do with what we were discussing, I was simply saying that you in order for you to...
I don't agree with everything you say but this has been a learning experience for me. Thank you!
Not all sins are created equal
  • #56
  • May 23, 2018 2:11pm May 23, 2018 2:11pm
Quoting Jay Walker
{quote} I don't agree with everything you say but this has been a learning experience for me. Thank you!
np , that's what we are hear for to learn from one another.
  • #57
  • May 26, 2018 1:43pm May 26, 2018 1:43pm
Quoting Bicarus
{quote} why stop at one. use em all. incrase your odds. you clearly deserve your margin calls and losses. looking at things, im pretty sure this is not gonna be your last redeposit. enjoy the ride down the rabbit hole.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Not enough indicators, I can still see the price.
F_ck your analysis, I know exactly where the market will go. To the right.
  • #58
  • Jun 17, 2018 9:21am Jun 17, 2018 9:21am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} 1k...20$/day.... that is 400$ a month, or 40%. Consistently.... Just forget about it! Not realistic, and those telling you that 40% a month can be done, month after month, simply lie!! Read you lost 4k, sorry for that, however it won't change that fact that now you are looking for something impossible and desperately...not a good combo if you still want to keep that 1k at least...
Profitfarmer,just because you cannot do it,it means it cannot be done?
check my post here

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...3#post11169703

with 1000$ ,he can do 1$ per pip risking only 3% of his account per trade he needs only 20 pips daily.
I know you don't count pips, but I think pips are essential.If you can make pips,you can make money,rest is only matter of capital and money management.
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't,you're right. H.F.
  • #59
  • Jun 21, 2018 12:18pm Jun 21, 2018 12:18pm
Hello ,,, I lost my job last week , I have been trying to fit trading in around my job , but now I have no job , I have to make trading work, I only have enough money to last until next weekend, so I must earn and transfer to my bank, initially on a weekly basis. I started with £129.00 and I have trebled my account this week. I am combining 5 pip Renko with my MT4 platform (EurUsd ), I intend to further double my account by Tuesday next week ( provided the price moves). When I have achieved this I will share my system with you, if you want, should I fail , look out for me hitch hiking down the M1 Motorway...
  • #60
  • Jun 21, 2018 12:51pm Jun 21, 2018 12:51pm
Quoting pgburty
Hello ,,, I lost my job last week , I have been trying to fit trading in around my job , but now I have no job , I have to make trading work, I only have enough money to last until next weekend, so I must earn and transfer to my bank, initially on a weekly basis. I started with £129.00 and I have trebled my account this week. I am combining 5 pip Renko with my MT4 platform (EurUsd ), I intend to further double my account by Tuesday next week ( provided the price moves). When I have achieved this I will share my system with you, if you want, should...

We are anxiously looking forward to see that.
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