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FX Trading in Europe under threat - act now

  • #401
  • Edited 11:34am Mar 28, 2018 10:36am | Edited 11:34am
Quoting redoktober
{quote} Well , probably I was wrong. Anyway , it's a fact of interpretation of words ,the euro-bureaucrats are masters in this... We'll see.
If this would be the case, then they should be ready for the massive capital flow from Europe to Australia.
  • #402
  • Mar 28, 2018 11:01am Mar 28, 2018 11:01am
Another idea from me:

We can invent new type of derivative market where the price action of the new derivative is 1:1 with the underlying market. Basically we need completely different legal definition. Just like the industry created spread betting in order to avoid taxes.

We can create a product which is legally defined as online game. The "trades" will be simple directional bets disguised as something else. And all profits and losses will be measured in points. The trades can be made with prepaid tokens.

The regulators can't touch this! It's just a game...
  • #403
  • Mar 28, 2018 12:08pm Mar 28, 2018 12:08pm
You're banging your head against a brick wall here mate. It’s fascinating to witness the cognitive dissonance, it’s actually a perfect example of two issues; the pig headedness of the average FX gambler and their refusal to believe anything, other than their own distorted perception of reality.

Quoting triphop
Red, sorry to say that's nonsense. It will apply to ALL speculative retail products in Europe. The ESMA in their infinite wisdom consider spot FX a type of CFD (don't blame me - they are regulators after all). I just called LMAX to see how the hell they were going to get away with it. Turns out they won't. They agreed that it WILL apply but are waiting for an official line to tell customers. https://www.esma.europa.eu/press-new...protect-retail "The European Securities and...
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #404
  • Mar 28, 2018 2:28pm Mar 28, 2018 2:28pm
Quoting alphaomega
Another idea from me: We can invent new type of derivative market where the price action of the new derivative is 1:1 with the underlying market. Basically we need completely different legal definition. Just like the industry created spread betting in order to avoid taxes. We can create a product which is legally defined as online game. The "trades" will be simple directional bets disguised as something else. And all profits and losses will be measured in points. The trades can be made with prepaid tokens. The regulators can't touch this! It's just...
Correct me if i missunderstood you, but there already is/was something like this, and that’s binary options.
  • #405
  • Mar 28, 2018 3:09pm Mar 28, 2018 3:09pm
Quoting Robertk
{quote} Correct me if i missunderstood you, but there already is/was something like this, and that’s binary options.
Yes, but Binary options are plain stupid. They have fixed odds with predetermined payout % (usually around 80%) This is pure gambling. No chance for profit in the long run.

I'm talking about a new type derivative which mathematically offers the exact same trading mechanics as spot Forex but with different appearance and completely different legal definition. As I said, this derivative can be classified as online game. Not financial product. But at the same time we can apply exactly the same strategies as we do now with spot.

I think that it's just a matter of time before someone with the right resources and capital decide to offer such product. Someone somewhere is already working on this! Guaranteed!

How many of you remember this game from 11 years ago:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eToroForexMarathon.jpg Size: 58 KB


or this:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eToro-forexmatch.gif Size: 127 KB


With the current technology we can take these concepts to completely new level! I know It sound and looks funny, but maybe this is the future.
  • #406
  • Mar 28, 2018 10:26pm Mar 28, 2018 10:26pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
You're banging your head against a brick wall here mate. It’s fascinating to witness the cognitive dissonance, it’s actually a perfect example of two issues; the pig headedness of the average FX gambler and their refusal to believe anything, other than their own distorted perception of reality. {quote}
Mad much as I enjoy irritating you , you are quite correct on the leverage required for consistent profits.

My statistics confirm that 30:1 leverage is still more than enough to make 60-70% annual growth.

My only concern here is that personally - I consider keeping excessive funds in a broker (whatever regulated or watchdogged) to be less safe as keeping those funds in a bank and use those when needed. Maybe this comes from my experience back in 2005 when I was involved in software projects with such financial organisations and have developed a true and sincere disrespect for all cheating and lying MFs that calls themselves professional traders or financial experts. I truly believe that 98% of the so called “pro”s are just dumbfucks that play with customers money and when they eventually loose them (and they do eventually) just say “well, there is risk in the markets”....
  • #407
  • Edited 3:07am Mar 29, 2018 1:44am | Edited 3:07am
M-Global and PFG Best are good examples , if you use two brokers, it wont save your money. some people got peanuts back from M-Global. It can happened like a swiss central bank event. Regulation don't help.

it is allways huge risk keeping money in brokers /banks investment accounts, financial industry is doing bribes and have old boy networks, and they can fly under radar and suck you dry.

I don't need to put pedal to the metal, if my car can go over 200 mph. I can drive it easy and wont mess my grandmothers hairstyle.

If some people want use max 100 leverage in they account let them use those, that doesn't mean they use such a leverage.

Some people don't want use lot of leverage and want believe they orders are process to the "markets"

Many almost ok, brokers don't give crazy leverage, if trading enough money. no need for nanny.
  • #408
  • Mar 29, 2018 3:10am Mar 29, 2018 3:10am
Delusional. Although in some respects it's non regulated globally and there's no central exchange, if you're trading with a regulated European or U.K. broker you get the exact same protection as you do in a bank. But I'm not aware of any bank that would have allowed you to position trade your savings on for example GBP/CHF and stay short since 2008, thereby compounding and increasing your profits over the last decade. Message; position trade your savings.

Quoting michaelpelly
{quote} My only concern here is that personally - I consider keeping excessive funds in a broker (whatever regulated or watchdogged) to be less safe as keeping those funds in a bank and use those when needed.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #409
  • Mar 29, 2018 3:24am Mar 29, 2018 3:24am
Ah, good old PFG Best... the closest I've ever been to losing my life savings. It was only speaking to this arrogant customer service douche that gave me second thought, right at the last minute as I was about to sign. And let's not forget about Refco.

I know FCA protect the £50k of funds in UK based brokers, same elsewhere in EU but even there, who wants their money tied up with bureaucracy if they go belly up. We should all treat all brokers with the absolute suspicion the industry deserves.

Anyway the end result *at the moment* isn't too onerous. It's on a 3 month trial, but no doubt it'll stay. If everyone could stop blowing up their accounts, it could remain like this for a while. Help the needy where you can
  • #410
  • Mar 29, 2018 3:32am Mar 29, 2018 3:32am
Quoting Spreadbetter
Delusional. Although in some respects it's non regulated globally and there's no central exchange, if you're trading with a regulated European or U.K. broker you get the exact same protection as you do in a bank. But I'm not aware of any bank that would have allowed you to position trade your savings on for example GBP/CHF and stay short since 2008, thereby compounding and increasing your profits over the last decade. Message; position trade your savings. {quote}
Hmm, I think the message I get from that is know your limits. A GBP/CHF multi-year fundamental call like that after the event is blindingly obvious but back in 2008? I salute anyone that did, but I couldn't. And didn't.

My days of fundamental reads were over during the Greek crisis when I along with tons of hedge funds it has to be said, positioned for Euro shorts, continually, which never came. I can trade interest rises, the JPY money printing saga was pretty good, but long term economic forecasts... tough game.
  • #411
  • Mar 29, 2018 4:02am Mar 29, 2018 4:02am
Quoting Spreadbetter
Delusional. Although in some respects it's non regulated globally and there's no central exchange, if you're trading with a regulated European or U.K. broker you get the exact same protection as you do in a bank. But I'm not aware of any bank that would have allowed you to position trade your savings on for example GBP/CHF and stay short since 2008, thereby compounding and increasing your profits over the last decade. Message; position trade your savings. {quote}
I do not disagree completely.

But delusional?! Come on - you can do better, Spreadbetter .

There are people here that actually now what hey are doing. These people use a whole database with statistics when trading - for strategy planning and scenario impact analysis. These people have not all liquidity poured into the brokers accounts. These people rarely have more than 15% drawdown on their brokers account equity, and rather more than 5-6% negative exposure to all liquidity at their disposal.

Just put some respect to such people, for the benefit of the doubt...
  • #412
  • Mar 29, 2018 5:23am Mar 29, 2018 5:23am
What genuinely makes me smile is folk taking money out of the FX markets but never thinking about where to park their gains/profits. I guess most don’t because they’re the typical FX retail punter; 2k account, 90%+ chance of losing it all, stays in the game for three months.

Quoting triphop
{quote} Hmm, I think the message I get from that is know your limits. A GBP/CHF multi-year fundamental call like that after the event is blindingly obvious but back in 2008? I salute anyone that did, but I couldn't. And didn't. My days of fundamental reads were over during the Greek crisis when I along with tons of hedge funds it has to be said, positioned for Euro shorts, continually, which never came. I can trade interest rises, the JPY money printing saga was pretty good, but long term economic forecasts... tough game.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #413
  • Mar 29, 2018 8:25am Mar 29, 2018 8:25am
I don't mind these new announced measures.
(I actually like the negative balance protection bit.)
Just wanted to point out is that if they really wanted to protect the end consumer, they would forbid averaging down.
Cheers,
k
  • #414
  • Mar 29, 2018 9:53am Mar 29, 2018 9:53am
Quoting kprsa
I don't mind these new announced measures. (I actually like the negative balance protection bit.) Just wanted to point out is that if they really wanted to protect the end consumer, they would forbid averaging down. Cheers, k

Civil servants put up regulations to protect themselves and their politician bosses from consumer criticism, not to protect consumer interests from damaging impacts.

In this case, its also possible that some migration of funds will take place within the EU, out of forex brokerages, BO firms and SB providers and into "mainstream" accounts and investment products - i.e. away from consumer-driven speculation. As the most important stakeholders for a financial regulator are the biggest corporate financial players, this is win-win for ESMA, their constituents and the MEP's.
  • #415
  • Mar 29, 2018 4:12pm Mar 29, 2018 4:12pm
Sigh, this again? According to ESMA up to 90% of retail lose up to €30k in the average 3 months they dabble in retail trading/gambling, not addressing that is reckless. No conspiracy just correct policy being implemented.

Quoting tomorton
{quote} Civil servants put up regulations to protect themselves and their politician bosses from consumer criticism, not to protect consumer interests from damaging impacts. In this case, its also possible that some migration of funds will take place within the EU, out of forex brokerages, BO firms and SB providers and into "mainstream" accounts and investment products - i.e. away from consumer-driven speculation. As the most important stakeholders for a financial regulator are the biggest corporate financial players, this is win-win for ESMA, their...
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #416
  • Mar 30, 2018 2:40pm Mar 30, 2018 2:40pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
Sigh, this again? According to ESMA up to 90% of retail lose up to €30k in the average 3 months they dabble in retail trading/gambling, not addressing that is reckless. No conspiracy just correct policy being implemented. {quote}
This 90% BS that people bang on about all the time, is a fact of life. Just about 90% (maybe a little more/less) can be related to all aspects of nature.

Spreadbetter you sound like an encyclopedia of point less $hit. If there was a book called the 10 golden rules of trading then you swallowed it. And you know who would buy it the 90% who lose.
  • #417
  • Edited 3:17pm Mar 30, 2018 2:49pm | Edited 3:17pm
screw all this s**t lol
  • #418
  • Mar 30, 2018 3:07pm Mar 30, 2018 3:07pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
Sigh, this again? According to ESMA up to 90% of retail lose up to €30k in the average 3 months they dabble in retail trading/gambling, not addressing that is reckless. No conspiracy just correct policy being implemented. {quote}
They don´t tell you that 100% loose playing their national lottery..even the very few who won the big one, if they continued investing their fortune in the lottery, they would give it all back and more.
They won´t tell you, that getting hit by lightning sitting in your bathtub, is more likely than winning the Christmas pot (someone actually did the math).
No protection there though...
  • #419
  • Mar 30, 2018 3:10pm Mar 30, 2018 3:10pm
Quoting kprsa
I don't mind these new announced measures. (I actually like the negative balance protection bit.) Just wanted to point out is that if they really wanted to protect the end consumer, they would forbid averaging down. Cheers, k
Absolutely, negative balance protection is very good.
Wonder how much will the brokers increase their spreads, to pay the cost of insurance, on the Negative balances they will need to finance from their own pockets.
  • #420
  • Mar 30, 2018 3:37pm Mar 30, 2018 3:37pm
Remember a few years back, there was the Tobin Tax issue.They did enforce it in France, Germany, Austria.. on stocks.
Spot forex was "forgiven"... then came Brexit.
Germany wants London´s banking industry, (badly) so they play the "Financial Industry firendly game"...."please come to Frankfurt, we will reduce taxes for you"...no Tobin Tax talk anymore, they won´t even mention it...(I live in Germany).
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