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  • #61
  • Mar 18, 2018 6:23am Mar 18, 2018 6:23am
Quoting Ill-b-back
What was the case with fxcm? Why did they lose so much? Was it the same reason? I'll read up more when have the time.
I only heard about the FXCM case because spread mentioned it a couple of weeks back, and how it's not bigger news on this forum I have no idea.
It's far, far worse than people are making out. FXCM mgnt is currently in court trying to explain how 'liquidity dried up' for several hours when their t1 counterparties have confirmed this never actually happened.

What they did was nothing short of a heist; either to cover losses or to extract a couple of mill from their client base... ermmm is the allegation they're fighting allegedly what have you.
  • #62
  • Mar 18, 2018 6:23am Mar 18, 2018 6:23am
Agreed, if retail punters could see a demo ‘behind the curtain’, or sit next to a broker’s chief dealer for a day, they’d give up their fantasy wrt trading immediately.


Quoting Artcool
{quote} Obviously you don't know how it works. You have to watch demos of those plug-ins available for brokers using Metatrader. Maybe it will open your eyes. Stops are not run specifically for each individual trader (unless they target someone who is both profitable and have big account which is very very rare), but they know at some point that when the price can be pushed a couple of pips to some level, it will trigger enough stops to make them cash, let's say $100,000. If it's 5 pips away, it will let them cash let's say $110,000. They don't...
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #63
  • Mar 18, 2018 6:34am Mar 18, 2018 6:34am
Re OPs question. may throw up some price comparison charts later if I have a chance but meantime this is worth a look. The only ECN on this list - interactive brokers - has 45% profitability vs FXCMs 28% (market making as we now know).

I know how they inflate the figures, and IB has a £10k min to weed out the nuggets but the differential is telling...

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/group...7c4c2cb391f305
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  • #64
  • Mar 18, 2018 7:19am Mar 18, 2018 7:19am
Oh my, you guys are amazing.

I really really am going to end here, since none of you have provided even 1 tiny argument or proof.
So, here are some screenshots, now it might be me, i have just received my new glasses, but where are these big differences?

Darwinex

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Pepperstone

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London Capital Group

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FxPro

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ActivTrades

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  • #65
  • Mar 18, 2018 7:49am Mar 18, 2018 7:49am
More than 95% of all "brokers" are not brokers at all.
They are pure scammers.
They do everything to steal your money, they are thieves and crooks.

From my own experience: they will sabotage profitable traders with all kind of dirty tricks.

Conflict of interest brokers = scammers.
  • #66
  • Edited 9:35am Mar 18, 2018 8:05am | Edited 9:35am
Quoting triphop
Re OPs question. may throw up some price comparison charts later if I have a chance but meantime this is worth a look. The only ECN on this list - interactive brokers - has 45% profitability vs FXCMs 28% (market making as we now know). I know how they inflate the figures, and IB has a £10k min to weed out the nuggets but the differential is telling... https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/group...7c4c2cb391f305 {image}
Hi Triphop, thx.
I have read from a number of sources now that the percentage of winning traders goes up rather significantly with deposits over $10,000 and/or with larger accounts.
Not sure if this reflects the traders greater experience or the brokers being less willing to be the counterparty to larger trades due to the risk profile it presents. I know SB and some others in here have said in the past that while brokers get up to mischief, the real SL hunter is the market itself.
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #67
  • Mar 18, 2018 8:30am Mar 18, 2018 8:30am
I think if someone think that broker is counter party then Just open trading account with two different or with same broker, then make sell at one and buy at other one, if broker is counterparty then both trades should go against to you, but it will not.
  • #68
  • Mar 18, 2018 8:45am Mar 18, 2018 8:45am
Quoting Ill-b-back
{quote} Hi Triphop, thx. I have read from a number of sources now that the percentage of winning traders goes up rather significantly with deposits over $10,000 and/or with larger accounts. Not sure if this reflects the traders greater experience or the brokers being less willing to be the counterparty to larger trades due to the risk profile it presents. I know SB and some others in here have said in the past that brokers get up to mischief but that the real SL hunter is the market itself.
Yeah, really difficult to untangle. All I know for sure is my own experience - I've experienced the holy trinity - shading (off market quotes), throttling (speed up/slow down so as to justify slippage/build up pressure) and 'liquidity issues' - ie limits get skipped, stops get hit, slippage is legion. I moved brokers and it stopped. That said - it's been a while since i used one of the bad guys but I did recently for reasons not important, and the execution was actually OK.

The multiple charts Dkam posted above are likely all from the same core price feed from Metaquotes so don't show anythnig. However, comparing Metaquotes against a reuters composite, there's some difference but enough to cry foul and that's a huge improvement from when we discussed it here on this forum seven years or so ago. The short version - off market quotes are not much to worry about, it's throttling and execution that you need to be wary of. And in spite of all of this,the biggest obstacle is still right in front of the mirror.
  • #69
  • Mar 18, 2018 9:32am Mar 18, 2018 9:32am
Quoting triphop
{quote} Yeah, really difficult to untangle. All I know for sure is my own experience - I've experienced the holy trinity - shading (off market quotes), throttling (speed up/slow down so as to justify slippage/build up pressure) and 'liquidity issues' - ie limits get skipped, stops get hit, slippage is legion. I moved brokers and it stopped. That said - it's been a while since i used one of the bad guys but I did recently for reasons not important, and the execution was actually OK. The multiple charts Dkam posted above are likely all from the same...
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #70
  • Mar 18, 2018 9:33am Mar 18, 2018 9:33am
Quoting triphop
{quote} ,the biggest obstacle is still right in front of the mirror.
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #71
  • Mar 18, 2018 10:10am Mar 18, 2018 10:10am
Its also a mystery to me buddy why it wasn't a massive event on forums, and there's an Occam's razor theory that not many discuss; many of the brokers are in fact bucket shops in the true sense of the definition.

Quoting triphop
{quote} I only heard about the FXCM case because spread mentioned it a couple of weeks back, and how it's not bigger news on this forum I have no idea. It's far, far worse than people are making out. FXCM mgnt is currently in court trying to explain how 'liquidity dried up' for several hours when their t1 counterparties have confirmed this never actually happened. What they did was nothing short of a heist; either to cover losses or to extract a couple of mill from their client base... ermmm is the allegation they're fighting allegedly what have...
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #72
  • Mar 18, 2018 10:20am Mar 18, 2018 10:20am
Quoting triphop
{quote}The multiple charts Dkam posted above are likely all from the same core price feed from Metaquotes so don't show anythnig.
Oops you are correct, totally forgot about it when i was taking this screenshots in a hurry this morning.
I have some screenshots from a few weeks ago (all live accounts) on my PC at my home office, i will post them later next week when i get back.
  • #73
  • Mar 18, 2018 11:02am Mar 18, 2018 11:02am
Lets be honest... If we had the ability of being our own broker, wewould also wager against clients since most of us are losers anyway. If the market was as !anipulated as you guys make it out to be, then most brokers wouldnt habe around the ssme price when you back test.
  • #74
  • Mar 18, 2018 3:43pm Mar 18, 2018 3:43pm
Quoting Dkam
{quote} These are just excuses used by unprofitable traders. Of course there might be brokers who try to create spikes to take stops, however there will be very few and most of them will be in Rusia or something. If you pick shady brokers to start with, well you are kind of asking for it. A regulated broker (FCA, ASIC, ..) will not do this. Spread widening of course is something that can happen during certain conditions/news/weekends.
ROFL. The US brokers regulated by supposedly the toughest regulation in the world, the NFA, are THE MOST GUILTY OF ALL.
  • #75
  • Mar 18, 2018 9:53pm Mar 18, 2018 9:53pm
If you guys think the brokers are scamming you, why don't you trade through an exchange like the CME FX Futures. I have been using data from CME FX Futures and regular Spot FX brokers for years and years. Personally I don't see any discrepancy between CME FX price data and FX Spot brokers.
  • #76
  • Mar 19, 2018 4:02am Mar 19, 2018 4:02am
They can’t afford it, the majority on here have $500 accounts.

Quoting Emg
If you guys think the brokers are scamming you, why don't you trade through an exchange like the CME FX Futures. I have been using data from CME FX Futures and regular Spot FX brokers for years and years. Personally I don't see any discrepancy between CME FX price data and FX Spot brokers.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #77
  • Mar 19, 2018 1:03pm Mar 19, 2018 1:03pm
Hey,

Just thought i'll give my 2cents here.
First of all, legitimate brokers don't have their shop built solely on taking flat counterparty risk. Yes, they model their customer trading and get some statistics but it'll be very foolish to build your business model on this ASSUMTION that retail loss is brokers gain. If this were some brokers business model (and some have that) then i wouldn't be worried about a few pips mispricing, i'd worry about my deposit and withdrawals

The whole point of a sustainable brokerage business is turnover. Their job is to find clients and build a network of liquidity providers to whom they can sell their client order flow. The longer the retailer is in buisness the better it is for the brokerage because they keep earning the commission.

Now, many retail brokers have their own trading desks, so they are one of the liquidity providers too. So they'll decide which trades they take and which they pass on to another liq provider.


Quoting Ill-b-back
From what I understand, brokers may push price a few pips,maybe not even this.
Don't think about it in terms of broker vs retail. There is a sell side and there is a buy side. Retail is typically buy side or the demander. Liq provers are sell side or the suppliers. But anybody can be a liq provider. YOU can be a liq provider. Many brokers allow you to insert limit orders, don't they ? So, when you are the best bid or best ask and if someone (some retailer) hits your limit then YOU are "getting" the spread so to speak.

About pushing. First you need to get to your head that spot price is all smoke and mirrors. Why do you think the spread is so low ?? Retail is always paying the highest price even though it SEEMS that you are paying the lowest

Market can be pushed 100s of pips for no other reason than order flow. There's always someone who knows something that you don't. That's why you are seeing trends which turn out to be nothing but pseudotrends with reversing all the way while retail keeps hoping for a retrace.

Anyways, i just wanted to emphasize that blaming the broker is just a way of trying to blame someone else other than yourself (i hope you understand that i'm not referring to you specifically). If a broker is playing shady games with its customers then it ends up hurting itself more. And besides, if u are worried about OTC spot price manipulation why don't you just trade fx futures ? They're centralized so there's no games...Those games which you are worried about, anyway
  • #78
  • Mar 19, 2018 1:09pm Mar 19, 2018 1:09pm
Quoting lumesh
Now, many retail brokers have their own trading desks, so they are one of the liquidity providers too. So they'll decide which trades they take and which they pass on to another liq provider.
Good points; however wanted to clarify one thing; retail traders cannot actually provide liquidity.

A limit order placed by a retail client; will be held at the broker aggregator, and wait until the bid/ask of the liquidity provider matches the retail client limit price; and execute after that. effectively making the retail client take liquidity instead of providing liquidity.

In other words; a retail client order; does not match with another retail client order; it will only match with the LPs.

An exception to the rule is LMAX; which provide a true exchange matching; allowing retail clients to provide liquidity. All other retail brokers don't allow that.
  • #79
  • Mar 19, 2018 1:13pm Mar 19, 2018 1:13pm
The right question to ask in this thread; is "Is the broker on your side or the LP side?"

and the answer is: both. The broker is your friend; and you should be nice to them; and they should be nice to you too.

Brokers need clients; and clients need brokers;
Brokers need LPs; and LPs need brokers
LPs and clients are on both ends; and need the brokers to broker their deals.

Brokers need to make a living; so do clients, and so do LPs.

we are all part of the world of trading.

so be nice!
  • #80
  • Mar 19, 2018 1:15pm Mar 19, 2018 1:15pm
Quoting HabibiForex
Lets be honest... If we had the ability of being our own broker, wewould also wager against clients since most of us are losers anyway. If the market was as !anipulated as you guys make it out to be, then most brokers wouldnt habe around the ssme price when you back test.
Habibi; what happen to the crystal balls
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