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  • #41
  • Mar 17, 2018 4:47pm Mar 17, 2018 4:47pm
Quoting Ill-b-back
{quote} What is/was it called?
Sorry mate, please understand I can't tell the name now. By the way, it has no importance and I am sure you won't even know it.
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #42
  • Mar 17, 2018 4:51pm Mar 17, 2018 4:51pm
Quoting alphadude
{quote} GP doesnt do that. i trade with them and it is truly ECN broker. they do provide execution statistics upon request.
They do, it is in their own order execution policy ...
  • #43
  • Mar 17, 2018 4:55pm Mar 17, 2018 4:55pm
Quoting Artcool
{quote} Sorry mate, please understand I can't tell the name now. By the way, it has no importance and I am sure you won't even know it.
Yeah right whatever...
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #44
  • Mar 17, 2018 5:20pm Mar 17, 2018 5:20pm
Hiya mate, I'm just reminded of the latest and largest example of broker misbehaviour and giving an example or three. For a while I compared live feeds/charts with several brokers, bearing in mind the brokers might be regulated but the FX marketplace isn't and prices are indicative, we're not getting the price from a centralised market.

The research was astounding, the price differential even on the majors as wide as ten pips. Plenty of opportunities for arbitrage back in the day, to play the fukcers at their own game. I doubt that much has changed if I was to repeat the exercise which is why I'll always contest that you have to trade with a bank or for a bank if you're going to day trade or attempt to scalp. However, if you can swing or position trade it's largely an irrelevance if your fees are low, paying no swaps etc.

Quoting Ill-b-back
{quote} Hi SB. If the broker collapsed when the SNB removed their peg and they were counterparty to their clients' trades, then that means clients' were in profit as a result of the flash crash? My original post was talking mainly about the impact of a market maker on a traders' results in regular circumstances. Opening up discussion about the impact a broker can have on price etc vs the wider market itself.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #45
  • Mar 17, 2018 5:30pm Mar 17, 2018 5:30pm
Quoting Dkam
{quote} They do, it is in their own order execution policy ...
the execution policy talks about the counterparty clearing.

unlike stockmarket; a part of clearing and settlement logic for FX market is the broker has to be the other side of your trade. it does not mean they traded with you. this is because it is an otc market.

if you want to know more consult a backoffice and settlement expert
  • #46
  • Mar 17, 2018 5:39pm Mar 17, 2018 5:39pm
Quoting Dkam
Look, brokers hedging their clients positions works like this: I want to buy EUR/USD, broker sells it to me. So now if i make a profit, the broker has to pay me. To hedge their risk the broker is also going to buy EUR/USD. This way if i make a profit, the broker losses to me, but since the broker did the exact same thing on to the real market he also made a profit and so was market neutral. Now brokers who do not hedge their risk and just keep everything in house would have to pay me if i make a profit and keep my losses if i lose. A broker who...
This is not only done in the retail world but also in the interbank market. Most decently sized banks have a few people dedicated to analyzing the flow from their cpties in order to be able to decide which risk to warehouse & which to close right away. It is similar to what somebody in this thread said about the A & B books brokers have for retail accounts.
But you also have some brokers or even banks that hedge every single trade back to back even if its 10k. The days where minimum size is 1mio interbank are long gone
  • #47
  • Mar 17, 2018 5:50pm Mar 17, 2018 5:50pm
You know the square root of fukc all, seriously give it a rest, I’m embarrassed (for you) reading your shite.

Quoting Dkam
{quote} Forex.com did an average of 15.5 billion of volume each day in 2016, now i guess you know some basic math so you can calculate the amount of commission they make. You believing negative balance protection is something that can be guaranteed says more about your market knowledge than mine.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #48
  • Mar 17, 2018 5:52pm Mar 17, 2018 5:52pm
Quoting alphadude
{quote} the execution policy talks about the counterparty clearing. unlike stockmarket; a part of clearing and settlement logic for FX market is the broker has to be the other side of your trade. it does not mean they traded with you. this is because it is an otc market. if you want to know more consult a backoffice and settlement expert
If you search you will find Gleneagle is the ONLY hedging couterparty, then if you do some more research you will find out that Gleneagle is the parent company of Global Prime (and other fx brokers).

There is no direct market access with Global Prime. Everything goes via Gleneagle (that is why they can claim to be what they claim to be, because Gleneagle makes their market) and Gleneagle then again uses A and B books. Since there are more brokers and others dealing via Gleneagle securities.

So in the end in this case Global Prime does not take the other side of your trade but their parent company does, then they decide how much risk they hedge and with which currency.

This is exactly what FXCM did, and then again, almost al brokers do. Only FXCM also decided to cheat with the profits made with the parent company.
The only way GP would be so called market neutrel is if Gleneagle would hedge all risk they take by taking the other side of GP traders. However they do not, (clearly mentioned in the legal documents) they work with A and B books so they still can profit if a trader losses or lose when a trader is winning.

Again, not saying GP is a bad broker.
This is just how the retail brokers work ...
  • #49
  • Mar 17, 2018 5:53pm Mar 17, 2018 5:53pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
You know the square root of fukc all, seriously give it a rest, I’m embarrassed (for you) reading your shite. {quote}

You are funny, i love your arguments!
  • #50
  • Mar 17, 2018 5:58pm Mar 17, 2018 5:58pm
Quoting Dkam
{quote} You are funny, i love your arguments!

The square root of fuckall; look long enough and hard enough for it and we'll all get fucked to the grave.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #51
  • Mar 17, 2018 6:44pm Mar 17, 2018 6:44pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
Hiya mate, I'm just reminded of the latest and largest example of broker misbehaviour and giving an example or three. For a while I compared live feeds/charts with several brokers, bearing in mind the brokers might be regulated but the FX marketplace isn't and prices are indicative, we're not getting the price from a centralised market. The research was astounding, the price differential even on the majors as wide as ten pips. Plenty of opportunities for arbitrage back in the day, to play the fukcers at their own game. I doubt that much has changed...
I've seen similar action years ago back in 2008 I think. 40 pip spike down during Asia On gbpchf that was not present on other brokers I was watching.. There seemed to be a lot of discussion of broker mischief on different forum boards and websites relating to EAs and general trading, hence I watched different platforms and I was brand new to trading. Also lots of platform freezes during news and other times. Once the platform freezed when what looked like a major turning point on GU. I rang to place a trade but the guy said no one was available. That was a red flag. So I just asked him if he could do it and he reluctantly agreed.
It was a very odd experience.
I must admit though, for the last 6 years or so, their service and execution has been very good.

My broker is listed as a hybrid market maker and stp as of 2016 anyway.
I would have thought if these brokers are running A and B books which I have nothing against, they would make enough from their counterparty trading with losing traders and commissions with the others to risk fraudulent practice and the resulting bad press.

I guess there are thieves who can't resist their nature and/or are happy to be here one day, make their money, then be gone the next.
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #52
  • Mar 17, 2018 6:52pm Mar 17, 2018 6:52pm
I am going to end with this:

Thinking that brokers are after YOUR stop would mean they are after every traders stop, which would be imposible since they have stops at 10000s different prices every second of the day.

Thinking that brokers are after YOUR stop and are here to bully YOU is the same as thinking we are the only in the universe, knowing we can see over 125,000,000,000 galaxy's from earth with hubble telescope.

Of course there are some brokers who are here to steal your money, like there are criminals in every industry.
However if you choose to deposit your money with them with all this information available on the internet, you maybe even deserve it.

You/we/i are not that important, there is a bigger picture than just you/we/me ...

Think whatever you want, if you want to discuss it, Great! But then at least use some half decent arguments!
I already regret comming back to FF.
Cya
  • #53
  • Mar 17, 2018 7:00pm Mar 17, 2018 7:00pm
I'm interested in learning exactly why the swiss franc losing its' peg affected so many brokers.
I"ve read Alpari UK went into insolvency due to having to absorb client negative balances that could not or would not be covered by the traders themselves.

What was the case with fxcm? Why did they lose so much? Was it the same reason?
I'll read up more when have the time.
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #54
  • Mar 17, 2018 7:08pm Mar 17, 2018 7:08pm
I remember my broker posting that they do not widen spreads on individual accounts.
This suggests to me at least that they can widen spreads on individuals accounts, presumably via plugins, or they would have said they "we can't widen spreads on individual accounts". Anyone with knowledge on this via technical expertise? Not just opinion. Thx.
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #55
  • Mar 17, 2018 7:24pm Mar 17, 2018 7:24pm
Quoting alphadude
No problem if the broker takes the other side; but broker is human and get greedy after a while. he will start hunting stops and making life difficult for profitable traders. best way for all market participants is to eliminate conflict of interest. a market maker broker is a definite No No
Yet, if you are on the right side of the trade then the broker can do very little to limit your overall profit. We as trsders get so wrapped up on theory instead of the real life things which effect us and in turn the market.
  • #56
  • Mar 17, 2018 7:25pm Mar 17, 2018 7:25pm
Quoting Ill-b-back
I'm interested in learning exactly why the swiss franc losing its' peg affected so many brokers. I"ve read Alpari UK went into insolvency due to having to absorb client negative balances that could not or would not be covered by the traders themselves. What was the case with fxcm? Why did they lose so much? Was it the same reason? I'll read up more when have the time.
The problem is the insane amount of leverage you can get in retail FX. During normal market conditions it is not a problem since the brokers can autoclose the positions but if there is a black swan event like the removal of the EURCHF floor the next price is 20% away from the last rate then your loss will exceed your balance in the account by many many times.
And now imagine the broker runs a business model where they dont warehouse the risk but hedge the customer positions with a Cpty. Lets see customer XYZ deposits 10k and gets 100x leverage. He then decides to take that leverage and go long 1 mio EURCHF. Broker buys 1 mio EURCHF in the market to hedge that trade. Next day SNB removes the floor and first price is .95 where the broker autocloses the position of the customer since loss exceeds balance. Now the Broker lost roughly 250k Buying EURCHF at 1.20 and selling at .95 and "wins" the 10k the customer had in his account plus the 240k the customer now has negative balance in his account. However the customer can`t afford to loose that much and is forced to close his account et voila the broker is stuck with a 240k loss. And since a lot of people had the same position in EURCHF it completely wiped out some brokers.
  • #57
  • Mar 17, 2018 7:26pm Mar 17, 2018 7:26pm
Quoting Dkam
I am going to end with this: Thinking that brokers are after YOUR stop would mean they are after every traders stop, which would be imposible since they have stops at 10000s different prices every second of the day.
Obviously you don't know how it works. You have to watch demos of those plug-ins available for brokers using Metatrader. Maybe it will open your eyes.

Stops are not run specifically for each individual trader (unless they target someone who is both profitable and have big account which is very very rare), but they know at some point that when the price can be pushed a couple of pips to some level, it will trigger enough stops to make them cash, let's say $100,000. If it's 5 pips away, it will let them cash let's say $110,000. They don't care who is going to stop out. It's just a possibility. So the DD plug-in dynamically adds a new tick for, let's say, go for the first option and let them cash out $100,000. If the price continues afterwards in the same direction, their intervention would not be noticed and would have been useless anyway.

But if the price reverses at that specific point which is usually at a major S/R area, their intervention would be fruitful. The impacted traders would just see the spike take out their stop, some would have a doubt and double check with other brokers. Those other brokers, if they have been honest that time, will not have that spike, but the support will just say it's the price given by their liquidity providers. Those other brokers can also do the same thing from time to time but they can trigger the stop hunting at other places depending on their customers trades.

All this is automatically configured and all calculation are done in real time as soon as some levels where you have a big concentration of stop losses are reached. There is nobody who does it manually. So, yes I guess they are right when they says they are a Non Dealing Desk broker, because....it's processed automatically in a fraction of seconds.

They can also play with feeds coming from their different liquidity providers. They get different prices when there is a lot of volatility. Hence they can give you the quote that is the most favorable for them.

Note that stop hunting can be also done at other levels, by the liquidity providers themselves, or even above, by the banks.

But there is so many other ways than stop hunting for a broker to increase easily his profits on your expense.

The challenge for the brokers is to do that as discreetly as possible when they want to take care of their reputation. So basically they would not want to slip the price to 20 pips. And it is not illegal at all as soon as they warn you in their Terms of Service that they can act as a market maker, which they all do. That means that they decide of the prices they quote you at any time and you just have to accept it.
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #58
  • Mar 17, 2018 7:43pm Mar 17, 2018 7:43pm
Quoting Artcool
{quote} Obviously you don't know how it works. You have to watch demos of those plug-ins available for brokers using Metatrader. Maybe it will open your eyes. Stops are not run specifically for each individual trader (unless they target someone who is both profitable and have big account which is very very rare), but they know at some point that when the price can be pushed a couple of pips to some level, it will trigger enough stops to make them cash, let's say $100,000. If it's 5 pips away, it will let them cash let's say $110,000. They don't...
Oh trust me, i do know how it works.
And i very much realise these plug-ins are there.

And i also know that most large and regulated brokers out there are not doing this because first of all, they don't need to if they have enough volume each day and secondly they don't want to risk their reputation and so lose their huge daily revenue.

Just a few weeks ago i compared a few of the larger retail brokers out there by laying their charts over each other and there was little to no difference, the difference there was, was easely explained by the difference in spread.

I am not talking by shady brokers in Rusia or some other unregulated place with only a few traders using them.
I am smart enough to stay away from those.
  • #59
  • Mar 17, 2018 8:45pm Mar 17, 2018 8:45pm
I agree, I do not think that the biggest fault of our losses are the brokers.
Maybe in the case where several brokers agree to move the market in a direction.
Would this be possible?
  • #60
  • Mar 18, 2018 6:20am Mar 18, 2018 6:20am
You’ve demonstrated that you know very little, as proven by this ridiculous post.

Quoting Dkam
{quote} Oh trust me, i do know how it works. And i very much realise these plug-ins are there. And i also know that most large and regulated brokers out there are not doing this because first of all, they don't need to if they have enough volume each day and secondly they don't want to risk their reputation and so lose their huge daily revenue. Just a few weeks ago i compared a few of the larger retail brokers out there by laying their charts over each other and there was little to no difference, the difference there was, was easely explained by...
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
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