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  • #21
  • Mar 17, 2018 12:37pm Mar 17, 2018 12:37pm
Quoting Dkam
{quote} These are just excuses used by unprofitable traders. Of course there might be brokers who try to create spikes to take stops, however there will be very few and most of them will be in Rusia or something. If you pick shady brokers to start with, well you are kind of asking for it. A regulated broker (FCA, ASIC, ..) will not do this. Spread widening of course is something that can happen during certain conditions/news/weekends.
excuse me?

these are very common complaints from traders towards brokers,it doesn't have anything to do with lame excuses and all.we aint children,we are seasoned ,matured traders,i wonder you speak in this tone ,i just checked your status ,u r one of the senior user and trader.i felt disrespectful by your comments.i honestly and genuinely shared my experience.
  • #22
  • Mar 17, 2018 12:51pm Mar 17, 2018 12:51pm
Quoting T4Trade
{quote} excuse me? these are very common complaints from traders towards brokers,it doesn't have anything to do with lame excuses and all.we aint children,we are seasoned ,matured traders,i wonder you speak in this tone ,i just checked your status ,u r one of the senior user and trader.i felt disrespectful by your comments.i honestly and genuinely shared my experience.
Then i would love to see some pictures of some charts showing huge pip differences/movements compared to other brokers and price feeds.
I have seen a few, only from shady and unregulated brokers.
Of course prices can be slightly different, but if there is a spike (not news driven) with broker A from 10 pips and broker B 20 pips or a spike before a reversal which doesn't show on other charts, show me some pictures.

Brokers have 10000s of trades going on, stops and tp's at every few pips if not more, you really think they are going to worry about taking your stop?
Again, there might be some brokers who try to do this, but brokers running stops and brokers manipulation price so price reverse before your tp is a joke.

Brokers do not control the market, brokers have stops and tps at 1000s if not 10000s different prices, price would be flying everywhere if they try to take stops.

Again, show me some pictures of price manipulation (not spread widening).
Sorry if your feelings got hurt, it is just the truth.
  • #23
  • Mar 17, 2018 12:58pm Mar 17, 2018 12:58pm
Thousands of retail punters got rinsed and lost their accounts, when the swissie spiked as the SNB removed their loose peg, because their broker collapsed taking everyone down with them. Many retail traders didn’t get reimbursed for their losses. This is what can happen when your broker trades against you, or acts as market maker. Exhibit A; FXCM, who actually had the nerve to try to stiff their losses on their clients, before eventually capitulating, only when they realised it was a pointless exercise.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #24
  • Edited 1:51pm Mar 17, 2018 1:23pm | Edited 1:51pm
Quoting Dkam
Then i would love to see some pictures of some charts showing huge pip differences/movements compared to other brokers and price feeds. I have seen a few, only from shady and unregulated brokers.
I have seen a tainted price feed on a demo from Trader's Way, where I tested one of trading programs. At the same time I had my live platform up (Tickmill) and another demo (FXPIG); so, the robot placed a few trades, made some wins and there then was the TP set at a price; first, price went against it, however, reversed and would have hit the TP later. So, I was watching the action there and price development looked strange to me, refused to go in "my" direction.. and I quickly checked against the other platforms. Man was I surprised to see - that the price feed strongly differed (at the worst by 8 pips) already for some time. Do they cheat even on demo? They are now on my blacklist. Very black. Now, I know that demo feeds (may) differ i.c. to live feeds, but usually the difference is subtle and not extremely apparent for many candles, and given the fact that at first the feed in question has behaved unison with what appeared to be the "real" price at that time.
Also I had the experience many times (on demo!) of price touching the TP by the point (not pip!), or even surpassing with one of the price lines (bid or ask) but not the other relevant to trigger the TP (just widening at that place) - or just stopping shy of the TP, waiting, considering, then taking it. This is f* strange.
Brokers definitely track traders, it's no of big deal to them with programs. Close observation suggests that even demo platforms react to trades. Live too - there is this brief jittering of the price line sometimes..
Return To Disorder
  • #25
  • Mar 17, 2018 1:25pm Mar 17, 2018 1:25pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
Thousands of retail punters got rinsed and lost their accounts, when the swissie spiked as the SNB removed their loose peg, because their broker collapsed taking everyone down with them. Many retail traders didn’t get reimbursed for their losses. This is what can happen when your broker trades against you, or acts as market maker. Exhibit A; FXCM, who actually had the nerve to try to stiff their losses on their clients, before eventually capitulating, only when they realised it was a pointless exercise.
I partially agree.

On the other hand, brokers who did trade against their clients and did not hedge their clients trade on the real market would have made profit from their clients blowing up their accounts.
The brokers who did hedge their clients trades made a loss, because the client did not had enough balance in his account to cover his position. So actually it is normal for the broker to ask the client to clear the negative balance.

If i would have a position in an exchange traded market, like stocks or futures, and there is a flash crash which results in to me having a negative balance, then i also have to pay it myself. Now in this example the broker never is my counterparty, but somebody out there is and now i am in debt with my broker.
If your forex broker hedged your order in the real market instead of just keeping it in house and your loss is larger then your deposit, the broker needs to pay up the difference to their liquidity provider or whoever took the other side of the trade. In house it wouldn't matter since they would not owned any money to anyone else.
  • #26
  • Edited 2:25pm Mar 17, 2018 1:29pm | Edited 2:25pm
Quoting rockit
{quote} I have seen a tainted price feed on a demo from Trader's Way, where I tested one of the trading programs. At the same time I had my live platform up (Tickmill) and another demo (FXPIG); so, the robot placed a few trades, made some wins and there then was the TP set at a place; first, price went against it, however, reversed and had had hit the TP later. So, I was watching the action there and price developement looked strange to me, refused to go in "my" direction.. and I quickly checked against the other platforms. Man was I surprised to...
Look where they are located, look at the strange stuff they say about your safety of funds, the website is 1 big red flag.
  • #27
  • Mar 17, 2018 1:49pm Mar 17, 2018 1:49pm
Look, brokers hedging their clients positions works like this:

I want to buy EUR/USD, broker sells it to me. So now if i make a profit, the broker has to pay me. To hedge their risk the broker is also going to buy EUR/USD.
This way if i make a profit, the broker losses to me, but since the broker did the exact same thing on to the real market he also made a profit and so was market neutral.

Now brokers who do not hedge their risk and just keep everything in house would have to pay me if i make a profit and keep my losses if i lose.
A broker who does hedge would also lose when i lose, but they get to keep my loss, so now they are back at market neutral = no profit and no loss.

Now brokers do not hedge every single risk from every single trader, they hedge in blocks since in the interbank market minimum trade size is 1 million.
So some brokers use liquidity providers (since they often want to hedge their risk in smaller portions).
So then the liquidity provider would do the exact same thing as a broker would do with their clients, liquidity provider takes the other side of the broker who is hedging their clients position, liquidity provider does hedge their risk from the broker in the interbank market.

So basically if i end up with a negative balance, i now own money to the broker, since they also had to pay for their loss to the liquidity provider.
  • #28
  • Edited 3:00pm Mar 17, 2018 2:49pm | Edited 3:00pm
I was replying to the post title and the original post. Many stops weren’t honoured, many terms and conditions ignored (including you can’t lose more than your balance), this gives an idea of the ethics and behaviour of the retail broker industry and their attitude.

Quoting Dkam
{quote} I partially agree. On the other hand, brokers who did trade against their clients and did not hedge their clients trade on the real market would have made profit from their clients blowing up their accounts. The brokers who did hedge their clients trades made a loss, because the client did not had enough balance in his account to cover his position. So actually it is normal for the broker to ask the client to clear the negative balance. If i would have a position in an exchange traded market, like stocks or futures, and there is a flash...
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #29
  • Mar 17, 2018 2:56pm Mar 17, 2018 2:56pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
I was replying to the post title and the original post. Many stops weren’t honoured, many terms and conditions ignored (including you can’t lose more than your balance), this gives an idea of the ethics and behaviour of the retail broker and their attitude. {quote}
The problem is that negative balance protection can't be guaranteed in extreme market situations like the black swan event.

Most brokers offering negative balance protaction most likely have some exception rules (like black swan event) in their client agreement, excecution policy, ..
  • #30
  • Mar 17, 2018 2:59pm Mar 17, 2018 2:59pm
Sigh, another one, spouting drivel, it’s like a game of whackamole on here. Fukcin hell, when will FF be exhausted of delusionalists and fantasists preening themselves, whilst trying to come across as knowledgeable.

[quote=Dkam;10882405]These are just excuses used by unprofitable traders. Of course there might be brokers who try to create spikes to take stops, however there will be very few and most of them will be in Rusia or something. If you pick shady brokers to start with, well you are kind of asking for it. A regulated broker (FCA, ASIC, ..) will not do this. Spread widening of course is something that can happen during certain conditions/news/weekends.[/quote]
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #31
  • Mar 17, 2018 3:04pm Mar 17, 2018 3:04pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
Sigh, another one, spouting drivel, it’s like a game of whackamole on here. Fukcin hell, when will FF be exhausted of delusionalists and fantasists preening themselves, whilst trying to come across as knowledgeable. These are just excuses used by unprofitable traders. Of course there might be brokers who try to create spikes to take stops, however there will be very few and most of them will be in Rusia or something. If you pick shady brokers to start with, well you are kind of asking for it. A regulated broker (FCA, ASIC, ..) will not do this....
Haha, funny. Still didn't see any pictures.
Looks like you are talking about yourself.
  • #32
  • Mar 17, 2018 3:16pm Mar 17, 2018 3:16pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
Sigh, another one, spouting drivel, it’s like a game of whackamole on here. Fukcin hell, when will FF be exhausted of delusionalists and fantasists preening themselves, whilst trying to come across as knowledgeable. These are just excuses used by unprofitable traders. Of course there might be brokers who try to create spikes to take stops, however there will be very few and most of them will be in Rusia or something. If you pick shady brokers to start with, well you are kind of asking for it. A regulated broker (FCA, ASIC, ..) will not do this....
Forex.com did an average of 15.5 billion of volume each day in 2016, now i guess you know some basic math so you can calculate the amount of commission they make.

You believing negative balance protection is something that can be guaranteed says more about your market knowledge than mine.
  • #33
  • Mar 17, 2018 3:31pm Mar 17, 2018 3:31pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
Thousands of retail punters got rinsed and lost their accounts, when the swissie spiked as the SNB removed their loose peg, because their broker collapsed taking everyone down with them. Many retail traders didn’t get reimbursed for their losses. This is what can happen when your broker trades against you, or acts as market maker. Exhibit A; FXCM, who actually had the nerve to try to stiff their losses on their clients, before eventually capitulating, only when they realised it was a pointless exercise.
Hi SB.
If the broker collapsed when the SNB removed their peg and they were counterparty to their clients' trades, then that means clients' were in profit as a result of the flash crash?
My original post was talking mainly about the impact of a market maker on a traders' results in regular circumstances. Opening up discussion about the impact a broker can have on price etc vs the wider market itself.
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #34
  • Mar 17, 2018 3:39pm Mar 17, 2018 3:39pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
Sigh, another one, spouting drivel, it’s like a game of whackamole on here. Fukcin hell, when will FF be exhausted of delusionalists and fantasists preening themselves, whilst trying to come across as knowledgeable. These are just excuses used by unprofitable traders. Of course there might be brokers who try to create spikes to take stops, however there will be very few and most of them will be in Rusia or something. If you pick shady brokers to start with, well you are kind of asking for it. A regulated broker (FCA, ASIC, ..) will not do this....
Years ago (in 2011), when my broker asked for a SL level on my trade placed over the phone, I declined to put one on. He then said if I decide to put one on, give them a call and they will "adjust the spread, oh uh, make the adjustment"
They are and were regulated at the time, so yeah, I know it happens.
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #35
  • Mar 17, 2018 3:39pm Mar 17, 2018 3:39pm
Quoting Dkam
{quote} Then i would love to see some pictures of some charts showing huge pip differences/movements compared to other brokers and price feeds. I have seen a few, only from shady and unregulated brokers. Of course prices can be slightly different, but if there is a spike (not news driven) with broker A from 10 pips and broker B 20 pips or a spike before a reversal which doesn't show on other charts, show me some pictures. Brokers have 10000s of trades going on, stops and tp's at every few pips if not more, you really think they are going to worry...

just read about how FXCM got banned from US market and its directors got banned from operating brokerages.

NFA aint joking around
  • #36
  • Mar 17, 2018 3:47pm Mar 17, 2018 3:47pm
Quoting alphadude
{quote} just read about how FXCM got banned from US market and its directors got banned from operating brokerages. NFA aint joking around
“The CFTC said FXCM was “engaging in fraudulent activities” with respect to FXCM’s retail customers, by telling them they used a “No Dealing Desk” order execution model, meaning orders would be executed directly in the market without using a liquidity provider, or market maker. But in fact, FXCM used a “Dealing Desk” model, by routing orders through market maker Effex Capital LLC that was actually supported and controlled by FXCM, allegedly in exchange for kickbacks to FXCM on profitable trades.”

This is exactly what GP and many others are doing. That is also why most retail brokers do not accept US clients.

We are talking about price manipulation, creating spikes which didn't happen to take out stops.
  • #37
  • Mar 17, 2018 4:31pm Mar 17, 2018 4:31pm
Quoting Dkam
{quote} “The CFTC said FXCM was “engaging in fraudulent activities” with respect to FXCM’s retail customers, by telling them they used a “No Dealing Desk” order execution model, meaning orders would be executed directly in the market without using a liquidity provider, or market maker. But in fact, FXCM used a “Dealing Desk” model, by routing orders through market maker Effex Capital LLC that was actually supported and controlled by FXCM, allegedly in exchange for kickbacks to FXCM on profitable trades.” This is exactly what GP and many others are...
GP doesnt do that. i trade with them and it is truly ECN broker. they do provide execution statistics upon request.
  • #38
  • Mar 17, 2018 4:38pm Mar 17, 2018 4:38pm
Brokers are real money makers in this game. I knew personally someone who opened a Forex brokerage company and then sold it after 5 years for 20M$. It's a small one, unknown to most people here. When he told me the name, I had never heard about it before (searched on Internet afterwards). But yet he made 20M$.
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #39
  • Mar 17, 2018 4:45pm Mar 17, 2018 4:45pm
Quoting Artcool
Brokers are real money makers in this game. I knew personally someone who opened a Forex brokerage company and then sold it after 5 years for 20M$. It's a small one, unknown to most people here. When he told me the name, I had never heard about it before (searched on Internet afterwards). But yet he made 20M$.
What is/was it called?
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #40
  • Mar 17, 2018 4:46pm Mar 17, 2018 4:46pm
20M$ is a lot of money. But unfortunately you cannot make that money in pyjamas like retail traders can do.
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
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