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Day trading London - what to expect?

  • #1
  • First Post: Mar 9, 2018 9:14am Mar 9, 2018 9:14am
Hi everyone,

This may seem a little unorthodox to most threads, but what have I got to lose.

My name is Hayden, I am a 27 year old Australian trader. I have been studying trading for about 4-5 years now and been demo-ing for far longer than I’d like to admit over those years.

Recently in the last 2 months I have gone live, with quite some success. 350 AUD to 1100 to be exact. 250-300% returns in 2 months.

Which brings me to my question, or moreso the point of this thread. In 2 months I am quitting my job and selling my business to move overseas to Amsterdam or London, to follow my dreams of becoming a day trading during the London market. While I feel confident and have seen some success, I am not naive and realise the chances or realising this dream is becoming one of the 5% of traders who actually make it....

Is there ANYBODY who can provide some insight into the life of a London trader, any tips regarding to physiology, daily routines etc...

Or better yet, any potential contacts of traders in the same position who are looking to network

I would appreciate any responses, whether it is a reply to this thread or a PM

Thanks in advance.
  • #2
  • Mar 9, 2018 12:10pm Mar 9, 2018 12:10pm
Quoting haydo147
Hi everyone, This may seem a little unorthodox to most threads, but what have I got to lose. My name is Hayden, I am a 27 year old Australian trader. I have been studying trading for about 4-5 years now and been demo-ing for far longer than I’d like to admit over those years. Recently in the last 2 months I have gone live, with quite some success. 350 AUD to 1100 to be exact. 250-300% returns in 2 months. Which brings me to my question, or moreso the point of this thread. In 2 months I am quitting my job and selling my business to move overseas...
Hi Hayden,
First up, I admire your ambition and drive but, honestly, I think you are mad, you have nowhere near the experience and track record you need. I worked in London as an institutional fund manager (not as a trader but I knew quite a few) for 20+ years and saw many like you come & go, and generally not in a good way. In a nutshell, it's a tough gig.

Check out the FF thread "Is anyone here an institutional trader?" started by Ponzi Jr. It has some posts by guys who were proper traders and you'll get an idea of what it might be all about.

Good luck - you're going to need it!
  • #3
  • Mar 9, 2018 2:27pm Mar 9, 2018 2:27pm
Quoting marcmarc
{quote} Hi Hayden, First up, I admire your ambition and drive but, honestly, I think you are mad, you have nowhere near the experience and track record you need. I worked in London as an institutional fund manager (not as a trader but I knew quite a few) for 20+ years and saw many like you come & go, and generally not in a good way. In a nutshell, it's a tough gig. Check out the FF thread "Is anyone here an institutional trader?" started by Ponzi Jr. It has some posts by guys who were proper traders and you'll get an idea of what it might be all...
Cheers marc, I appreciate your response and yeah you are probably correct about not having the success nor the track record.

I do have the drive however, as you mentioned and I guess I will never know unless I try. I would rather fail miserably than sit back when I’m 35 filled with regret.

I will check out that thread!

EDIT: I should probably add that I am not looking to become an institutional trader, simply a day trader from my computer
  • #4
  • Mar 9, 2018 3:02pm Mar 9, 2018 3:02pm
Hayden,

If you come to London check out this Meetup group:

https://www.meetup.com/TheLondonTradersNetwork/

It's basically a "knees up" meeting in the city once every month or so. They're a good bunch of people, mainly day-traders - very approachable.
  • #5
  • Mar 9, 2018 5:24pm Mar 9, 2018 5:24pm
After reading you notes i see you were on demo for a long time before you decided to go live , " WELL DONE " I also went the long way to get where i am today , i play morning aud session , and european session , i see you want to go overseas to trade well before you go check out accomadation costs along with the food cost and can you cover those cost trading and not the money from your business , thats the advice i can offer you , do your due diligence , if you do go good look with your trading it seems you are on the right track , kindest regards from dave
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #6
  • Mar 9, 2018 7:45pm Mar 9, 2018 7:45pm
Why go balls out with this?
Go to London, re-establish your job/business somewhere in England (preferable outside the expensive costs of London), get the advice you seek from there.
Then commit once you have all the facts yourself. Why would you make a life changing decision based on the opinions of a group of people you have not met?
Most of all, talk to the people close to you who will be effected by this move.
  • #7
  • Mar 9, 2018 8:55pm Mar 9, 2018 8:55pm
As unqualified as I am to solicit advice as a demo-baller, just treat it as a job?

If you've truly made it, just be responsible. Show up to your trading time sober, well-rested, and ready. You're your own boss. Trade your edge, and repeat for the rest of your life. Best of luck to you.
  • #8
  • Mar 9, 2018 10:56pm Mar 9, 2018 10:56pm
Quoting Aich
Why go balls out with this? Go to London, re-establish your job/business somewhere in England (preferable outside the expensive costs of London), get the advice you seek from there. Then commit once you have all the facts yourself. Why would you make a life changing decision based on the opinions of a group of people you have not met? Most of all, talk to the people close to you who will be effected by this move.
The decision won’t be made based on replies here, it was made a long time ago. I am now financially comfortable enough to float myself overseas (travelling) or based somewhere.

point of this thread is too have an insight, but I appreciate your response
  • #9
  • Mar 9, 2018 10:59pm Mar 9, 2018 10:59pm
Quoting Aich
Why go balls out with this? Go to London, re-establish your job/business somewhere in England (preferable outside the expensive costs of London), get the advice you seek from there. Then commit once you have all the facts yourself. Why would you make a life changing decision based on the opinions of a group of people you have not met? Most of all, talk to the people close to you who will be effected by this move.
I’ve already travelled Europe and am well aware of the cost of living, due dilligance has been done far in advance.

Why go balls out you ask? Well if I could make money trading and realise my dreams in the comfort of my own home and country, with friends and finances to fall back on, why have I or 90% of other trades not made it yet?

To me, I need to get out of my comfort zone, make myself fully accountable to the point where if I don’t earn I don’t eat, and maybe just maybe this might work.

if not, financial fall back plan in Australia is in place.
  • #10
  • Mar 9, 2018 11:01pm Mar 9, 2018 11:01pm
Quoting simond2002
Hayden, If you come to London check out this Meetup group: https://www.meetup.com/TheLondonTradersNetwork/ It's basically a "knees up" meeting in the city once every month or so. They're a good bunch of people, mainly day-traders - very approachable.
Thanks mate! Greatly appreciated and will definately be checking this out
  • #11
  • Mar 9, 2018 11:11pm Mar 9, 2018 11:11pm
Quoting haydo147
{quote}.... Well if I could make money trading and realise my dreams in the comfort of my own home and country, with friends and finances to fall back on, why have I or 90% of other trades not made it yet?
Interested to know what you mean here. You say you are financially ok but then you say you have "not made it yet". How does that work? With respect, it sounds like you are being driven by ego. I believe I/you only trade for money. Once you are stacking it away, move on to easier ways of making your money work for you. Investing rather than trading.


I agree with stepping out of your comfort zone. Nothing good happens till you are doing that.

Let's keep this conversation going. It addresses the trader's mind set. That is the most important issue to be clear on.

For instance, there is a difference between an analyst and a trader. Analysts look backwards to assess what has happened in order to see if that replicates into the future.
Traders only look forward.

Cheers, H
  • #12
  • Mar 9, 2018 11:28pm Mar 9, 2018 11:28pm
Quoting Aich
{quote} Interested to know what you mean here. You say you are financially ok but then you say you have "not made it yet". How does that work? With respect, it sounds like you are being driven by ego. I believe I/you only trade for money. Once you are stacking it away, move on to easier ways of making your money work for you. Investing rather than trading. I agree with stepping out of your comfort zone. Nothing good happens till you are doing that. Let's keep this conversation going. It addresses the trader's mind set. That is the most important...
Cheers Aich.

There are the responses I am looking for, challenging ones that we can all learn from.

You make a good point in asking why if I am financially comfortable as I say, then why haven't I made it yet. Well for the last 5 years, my main focus has been my business and getting that off the ground and to the point it is now where I am comfortable.

Trading has always been something I love, but something that is on the back burner as my heart and soul and everything I had was being put into this business.

Yes you are correct, one main driver is the money, I and most others would by lying if we said it wasn't. Also the thrill of trading is what attracts me, the feeling of banking a few hundred pips and waking up to some positive gains is a feeling like no other, and yeah call it Ego because it probably is but I tend to love when people say I can't do something because it motivates me 10 times over to achieve it.

The idea of basing myself somewhere in Europe and being able to float around from place to place with my laptop as the only means needed to make money, is a lifestyle many would be striving for. (I am financially comfortable enough to be doing this for a few months, without stressing or draining the finances or back up plan too much)

It's funny you mention trading and analyzing are completely different, I was thinking about this this morning while having an argument with a economist, actually ended up saying that there is a large difference in "predictions" and "past history" rather than actually trading what you are seeing and "pulling" money from the market rather than predicting "price will hit this level etc"...

You seem like a smart guy, I agree let's keep this discussion going.
  • #13
  • Mar 9, 2018 11:35pm Mar 9, 2018 11:35pm
Quoting yungsteest
As unqualified as I am to solicit advice as a demo-baller, just treat it as a job? If you've truly made it, just be responsible. Show up to your trading time sober, well-rested, and ready. You're your own boss. Trade your edge, and repeat for the rest of your life. Best of luck to you.
Demo or not, any response that isn't a troll is welcomed in this thread.

What your saying, regarding treating this as a job is pretty much where my head is at the moment. I know that "technically" I am mature and well educated enough to structure my earnings and routine in a business like schedule, however one thing I am majorly concerned about is psychology.

It's all sunshine and roses dropping 10 lots of demo and seeing your account grow by 10 grand, however doing it with 0.10 lot on a live account hoping for a 100 bucks is quite different.

If this is to work, I am going to be pushing large lots regularly and managing/trading large quantities of money, and I am not sure how I am going to be handling that, mentally.
  • #14
  • Mar 10, 2018 1:06am Mar 10, 2018 1:06am
Quoting haydo147
Recently in the last 2 months I have gone live, with quite some success. 350 AUD to 1100 to be exact. 250-300% returns in 2 months. Which brings me to my question, or moreso the point of this thread. In 2 months I am quitting my job and selling my business to move overseas to Amsterdam or London, to follow my dreams of becoming a day trading during the London market.

This is the killer phrase right here.

Demo experience aside, 2 months of live trading is barely enough to count as experience. Furthermore, the psychology will really start to kick in when you trade substantially larger amount of money relative to your net worth.

Next, if you are able to earn 250 - 300% in 2 months. You must also be prepared to lose equal, if not more in such a short span of time. Phrased simply. High risk, high return.
Chances are you are risking quite a large percentage of your capital, quite possibly even on leverage. This is rather unsubstainable as a few bad trades might wipe you out.

That being said. This is your life, your dream and your decision. Do not let anybody hold you back or tell you otherwise. If you are risking money that you can afford to lose, I don't see why you can't have a go at it. But just be aware of the potential risks in doing so, and always have a backup plan in case the venture fails! Good luck!
I look for value wherever it can be found
  • #15
  • Mar 10, 2018 2:34am Mar 10, 2018 2:34am
**** YOU NEED AT LEAST 50K ACCOUNT BEFORE YOU PLAN TO HIT FULL TIME****
As far as i can judge you are planning to move out of Australia just because of the time zone, In my opinion you should move to dubai first and other places later, its has a more comfortable time zone for trading rather than UK or any other place, its a good place for expats moreover the money you earn from trading is not taxed so you get what you earn and the last one is easy visa process its a place for expats.
As traders we all are dependent on volatility to make money, its frustrating for trader be it retail or insitutional to trade when the liquidity dries up.
Fx market keeps changing from month on month to year after year its not always same.
Most important trading advise i can give you is to spend some time and learn fundamentals which actually move the market, technicals is just used to time the market properly. since you have been day trading you cannot quit day trading but you can incorporate swing trading and day trading i.e place a swing trade and keep trading in the direction of your swing trade which will help you in maintaining a good accuracy and keeping you away from the fake moves.
if you are hitting full time its necessary that you should have a "TRADING PROCESS" which can be repeated every time over years.
A descent living in london will cost you 1200-1500 pounds PM which in my opinion will get difficult to churn out every month and once you hit a down month it will disturb your trading psychology more than anything because you'll have the mental pressure to make money from the market. As a trader your mind needs to be clear from every negative aspect of life in short your lifestyle should be simple to succeed as a trader.
see the bigger picture before deciding trading is not exciting, its actually very boring.

I wish the you get the very best out of your plans for future.
  • #16
  • Mar 10, 2018 2:48am Mar 10, 2018 2:48am
Quoting haydo147
Hi everyone, This may seem a little unorthodox to most threads, but what have I got to lose. My name is Hayden, I am a 27 year old Australian trader. I have been studying trading for about 4-5 years now and been demo-ing for far longer than I’d like to admit over those years. Recently in the last 2 months I have gone live, with quite some success. 350 AUD to 1100 to be exact. 250-300% returns in 2 months. Which brings me to my question, or moreso the point of this thread. In 2 months I am quitting my job and selling my business to move overseas...
Firstly, let me say well done on even making the choice to follow your dream. Many do not and will then remain stagnant in their life wondering what if.

Im presuming you have adequate capital.

Secondly, Do it!

But, there's always a but! Have a plan B! A possible part time job ?

With regards to trading.

Set a targets, daily, weekly monthly if you hit them, you walk away for the day. Don't get greedy.
if you suffer a bad day, walk away and come back when your head is straight again.

Limit your markets you trade trade so you can get to know them inside out and why they move they way they move.

even if you don't realise your intended dream it may open doors you were not intending to open....

Good luck
Welcome all conversation on trading Follow me on Twitter @able_trading
  • #17
  • Edited 7:49am Mar 10, 2018 6:10am | Edited 7:49am
Do you want to trade for an investment bank/hedge fund, or privately? I trade for myself for the last 3 years (althought I had to support myself in the first 2 externally, I only make enough in the last year), here I can offer some of my insights.

Trading-wise there is not much different, I'm in GMT+1, I usually wake up around 8:30-8:45AM, London opens at 9AM for me, it is busier in the next 2-3 hours, then calms down, NY opens at 2:30PM, the overlap is from there until 5PM, then I finish. Personally I don't take a trade after London close. Very rarely the market start moving around Frankfurt open, but I don't wake up for that. That is one big advantage, that you manage your time as you want. Sometimes I don't set an alarm, when I see nothing will happen next morning (my trade frequency is slower than a scalper's, but faster than a swingtrader's, so I can plan about 8-12 hours before).

I'd say I'm 75% extroverted and 25% introverted, so if you are like that, you really have to look for activites outside trading, where you interact with people, especially if you are moving to the other side of the world. Meetups, conferences, sports, whatever, it doesn't have to relate to trading.

Now the big thing is, that you REALLY have to plan forward with your expenses, because your cash inflow will be inconsistent, no matter how consistent you are. Personally I know how much I'm spending on very basic things (rent, food) per month. I keep at least 12 times of that amount in savings, so I'll know I'll be good for a year, even if I don't make any money. These are not trading funds.

Regarding the extra profits, I'm only allowing myself to spend the extra 3 months later, because I don't know how the next months will be and so far my driest spell was 2 months long. And maybe my extra profits this month will have to serve as covering the basic funds next month. I made money every month last year until this month, except November and December (Nov was breakeven, Dec was in slight minus). If you don't have extra for these periods and you spend everything as it comes, a period like this can hit you really hard. And everybody will have drawdown periods.

Otherwise I wouldn't say living like this is any different than any other way of the digital nomad lifestyle. The biggest unique difference is the inconsistency of the cash flow. But if you have huge swings in equity, like +50% in one month, then -30% in the next, I wouldn't force living from trading, because psychologically it would kill you. I only have a few percents of differences, with risking 1% of total equity per trade.
Price and volume reveals everything. The market moves on supply and demand.
  • #18
  • Mar 10, 2018 7:11am Mar 10, 2018 7:11am
Quoting haydo147
{quote} ....... treating this as a job is pretty much where my head is at the moment. .... If this is to work, I am going to be pushing large lots regularly and managing/trading large quantities of money, and I am not sure how I am going to be handling that, mentally.
I've got to strongly disagree with this statement. Trading is not like a job.
In a job you get paid for just turning up. If you are in a developed country like Australia, you get paid while on holiday and you may even get paid when you are sick. How cruisey is that.
If you run a business you will know that it is quite different. You have overheads (rent, insurances, wages, etc) that you must cover every week/month whether you make any sales or not. Running a business requires planning, negotiating deals, specialist knowledge, risk, uncertainty, decision making, paying wages, buying stock, following govt regulations, maintaining enough cash reserves to carry you over the slow times etc. Being a good plumber does not mean you can a good plumbing business.
Trading sound a lot more like a business to me.

To be successful as a trader you need to have a plan, be able to alter that plan if things drift in a different direction. The outcome is always uncertain so you need to be able to handle uncertainty. Every trade has an uncertain outcome but in spite of this you need to keep moving forward - committing to trades even when you have done more than your share of unsuccessful ones in a row.

The texts will tell you that you need to take every trade that agrees with your rules/strategy. Do you feel comfortable doing this?
If not, you need to work on that. Either develop better market knowledge and build this into your strategy or change yourself to adapt to this.

It sound like you are getting outside advice. That is good as you will develop much quicker if you are prepared to both seek and take advice. I think most traders exist in some kind of bubble that does not allow them to change and develop personally/psychologically. They see any advice as being a criticism of them personally.

About my comments re analyst and trader. If you are a solo trader you will need to be both an analyst and a trader. You start the day analysing the market then you take off that hat and put on your traders hat. Never analyse while trading and never trade while analysing. ie., when a potential trade sets up, avoid the temptation to say "this happened yesterday so I will expect the same outcome today. Particularly if your previous result was a negative one. Holding a negative expectation over into a new trade will not help you to enter a new trade.

Most traders believe that they trade for money. A successful trader trades to make successful trades and gets rewarded with money. ie., ignore the money when you take a trade. When the dollars start to get big, this will effect your ability to maintain the same attitude to committing to fresh trades.

I have a lot more to say but I want to be guided by you. You take this conversation in the direction that suits you and I will follow.

This conversation is not just about you and I, it can have a lot of impact on others.

Cheers, H
  • #19
  • Mar 10, 2018 8:42am Mar 10, 2018 8:42am
You need to have this conversation with a prop trading firm, I'd give you two leads but I never give up my contacts to strangers. DYOR, search for prop firms in London, send them a link to your performance, they may be prepared to back you and it's not just about your performance, but your aptitude and attitude.

As for living expenses, you'll need 1600 quid rent and 1000 otherwise, so if you have a 50k trading account you'll just about survive if you make 50% ROI. And on that subject forget these fantasy figures you're projecting, as a long term aim, as you've no chance producing that long term. However, if your r:r looks ok and your drawdown is non existent and you've produced such returns on 1:50 leverage the prop firms may be interested.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #20
  • Mar 10, 2018 2:00pm Mar 10, 2018 2:00pm
hi Hyden; you are trying to solve two problems at once; trading and moving to London.

get one of them solved first. how about you trade from Australia for a one full year; if you are successful then move anywhere in the world.

you are making a big mistake if you think that moving to London will help your trading. it will not. it will make it worse because you will have to face the challenges of changing country.
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