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1:400 + fixed spread + news trading

  • #1
  • First Post: Sep 28, 2006 10:53pm Sep 28, 2006 10:53pm
does any one know broker with 1:400 + fixed spread + news trading ??
  • #2
  • Sep 28, 2006 11:02pm Sep 28, 2006 11:02pm
Quoting HITMAN
does any one know broker with 1:400 + fixed spread + news trading ??
Why do you want 400:1? If you want to gamble, go to Las Vegas.
Mr. Trend
  • #3
  • Sep 29, 2006 12:59am Sep 29, 2006 12:59am
Quoting Mr Trend
Why do you want 400:1? If you want to gamble, go to Las Vegas.
Trend,

I'm not going to disagree that MOST of the time when someone asks for such high leverage, they WANT to gamble...but I must respectfully disagree with your assessment that leverage is somehow tied directly to risk. It isn't. I've made this point previously, but if I buy 1 standard lot of the Euro at 400:1 leverage, my loss per pip would be $10. If I were to lower my leverage to 50:1...do you think my loss per pip would be any different? No...If I buy 1 lot at 400:1 I will lose the same PER PIP as I would if I bought at 50:1.

Assuming someone who prefers 400:1 leverage is a gambler isn't exactly constructive.

On the flip side...you definitely have to take it with a grain of salt someone who wants hi leverage with a news trade component...but then again, let's look at the odds.

Why can't forex be used to gamble? (playing devil's advocate). Are you saying the odds of making a win are BETTER at a casino? Again...not agreeing with gambling in Forex...but it is for certain that people's risk tolerance varies from person to person...maybe this person doesn't mind blowing $1,000 for pretty decent odds.
  • #4
  • Sep 29, 2006 1:01am Sep 29, 2006 1:01am
Quoting mrmikal
Trend,

I'm not going to disagree that MOST of the time when someone asks for such high leverage, they WANT to gamble...but I must respectfully disagree with your assessment that leverage is somehow tied directly to risk. It isn't. I've made this point previously, but if I buy 1 standard lot of the Euro at 400:1 leverage, my loss per pip would be $10. If I were to lower my leverage to 50:1...do you think my loss per pip would be any different? No...If I buy 1 lot at 400:1 I will lose the same PER PIP as I would if I bought at 50:1.

Assuming someone who prefers 400:1 leverage is a gambler isn't exactly constructive.

On the flip side...you definitely have to take it with a grain of salt someone who wants hi leverage with a news trade component...but then again, let's look at the odds.

Why can't forex be used to gamble? (playing devil's advocate). Are you saying the odds of making a win are BETTER at a casino? Again...not agreeing with gambling in Forex...but it is for certain that people's risk tolerance varies from person to person...maybe this person doesn't mind blowing $1,000 for pretty decent odds.
I totally understand and agree with your point. My post was merely meant to get him to ask himself that question because the odds are that he's wanting to make money fast.

Matter of fact, I'd trade those odds... and probably win.

Regardless... just wanting folks who think they can make a quick buck news trading to think before they do it.

If that's not the case, then it's all good.
Mr. Trend
  • #5
  • Sep 29, 2006 1:37am Sep 29, 2006 1:37am
Quoting mrmikal
Asuming someone who prefers 400:1 leverage is a gambler isn't exactly constructive.

how about 1:1?
(1:1)TM
  • #6
  • Sep 29, 2006 2:41am Sep 29, 2006 2:41am
Quoting mrmikal
Why can't forex be used to gamble? (playing devil's advocate). Are you saying the odds of making a win are BETTER at a casino? Again...not agreeing with gambling in Forex...but it is for certain that people's risk tolerance varies from person to person...maybe this person doesn't mind blowing $1,000 for pretty decent odds.
Imho in forex to a certain extent you can "beat the house" by increasing probablility of winning, in casino it's impossible. They have strict rules and policies to filter out professional gamblers.

I like think about FX as a gambling but probably we understand this word differently. To me its playing with the probabilility...

D.
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
  • #7
  • Sep 29, 2006 2:42am Sep 29, 2006 2:42am
ok........ in need 1:400 in non news time trade................. & the 1:400 give the trader wide option my i can use high risk in some times but not at all............................
ok any on know broker 1:200 &fixed spread & news trading........
  • #8
  • Sep 29, 2006 6:58am Sep 29, 2006 6:58am
does anyone have a list of which brokers have these "rules and policies" also? once you are consistent at making money, they do everything to prevent you from making it?

and perhaps with descriptions of what they do also... e.g. false spikes, disconnections, manual execution, etc.

the most important point I fail to understand is whether these kinds of brokers will attempt to close down any profitable trader, or simply news traders?

Quoting dottore
Imho in forex to a certain extent you can "beat the house" by increasing probablility of winning, in casino it's impossible. They have strict rules and policies to filter out professional gamblers.
  • #9
  • Sep 29, 2006 7:07am Sep 29, 2006 7:07am
Quoting ycomp
does anyone have a list of which brokers have these "rules and policies" also? once you are consistent at making money, they do everything to prevent you from making it?

and perhaps with descriptions of what they do also... e.g. false spikes, disconnections, manual execution, etc.

the most important point I fail to understand is whether these kinds of brokers will attempt to close down any profitable trader, or simply news traders?
Ycomp, I think you misunderstood...the "rules and policies" he was referring to applied to the casinos. Casinos SEVERELY curtail professional gambling by doing things like offering low max bets (often times it's only 500x the minimum bet) which prevents people with larger bank-rolls from gaining an advantage through martingale, or card counting (if they can catch you), and they do a few other things...but the point is, everyone knows that gambling is always against the house and the house always wins in the long-run.
  • #10
  • Sep 29, 2006 7:08am Sep 29, 2006 7:08am
Quoting Centrillion
how about 1:1?
What?
  • #11
  • Sep 29, 2006 7:18am Sep 29, 2006 7:18am
but I thought that certain brokers always try to shut you down if you make consistent profits (at least from news trading)?

I am especially confused about FXCM in particular, whether they try to shut down all profitable news traders or just those that exploit the time delay. If it is just those that exploit the time delay, then that is understandable of course.

Quoting mrmikal
Ycomp, I think you misunderstood...the "rules and policies" he was referring to applied to the casinos. Casinos SEVERELY curtail professional gambling by doing things like offering low max bets (often times it's only 500x the minimum bet) which prevents people with larger bank-rolls from gaining an advantage through martingale, or card counting (if they can catch you), and they do a few other things...but the point is, everyone knows that gambling is always against the house and the house always wins in the long-run.
  • #12
  • Sep 29, 2006 7:41am Sep 29, 2006 7:41am
Quoting mrmikal
not agreeing with gambling in Forex...
Forex ist the largest casino on earth. Period.
  • #13
  • Sep 29, 2006 7:49am Sep 29, 2006 7:49am
Quoting HITMAN
does any one know broker with 1:400 + fixed spread + news trading ??
interbankgroup.com
  • #14
  • Sep 29, 2006 12:18pm Sep 29, 2006 12:18pm
Quoting ycomp
but I thought that certain brokers always try to shut you down if you make consistent profits (at least from news trading)?

I am especially confused about FXCM in particular, whether they try to shut down all profitable news traders or just those that exploit the time delay. If it is just those that exploit the time delay, then that is understandable of course.
I can't specifically say they want to "shut down" profitable traders. It makes no sense unless they are consistently betting against you...but that would also make no sense because it is entirely possible that they would have clients who would be betting against you and thus offset their profitability. It would be better to just match your order with their order directly and they go home the winner no matter what.

Folks, news trading ISN'T the only form of profitable trading...it just isn't. It's not even the easiest or most profitable in my opinion. Hell, it's not even on the top 10 of safest trades in my book...so why in the world do you think FXCM is targeting news traders if they want to cut down profitability.

FXCM is merely trying to make up for liquidity that isn't there since they have fixed spreads...period. Think really clearly on this guys...if EVERYONE was a seller...who would provide liquidity? The price would be temporarily out of whack until buyers returned to the market. Think...if everyone read the same news and came to the same conclusion...everyone and their mother would want to go in the same direction...but you can't have a market if everyone is going in the same direction because the market will inevitably go in the direction where MOST people are going...SO, as a broker...how the hell do you provide liquidity? You can't if there are no buyers...so you shut down your system, or make it difficult for people to get in while the price at the macro level comes back up enough to shake people's interest and start getting some liquidity.

I have nothing against you Y, but comments like these just remind me of how far I've come. You see, before I was focused on the obstacles in trading. What obstacles am I facing today? is it me, my mood, my broker, what? Now, instead, I think much more progressively...I think what weakness am I going to exploit today. This is a much more suitable method (for me) because it assumes 2 things 1) there is a weakness to exploit and 2) I'm going to exploit it.

If you ASK yourselves better questions...your mind will come up with better answers.

If you focus too much on how your broker (or brokers) are making it difficult for you to be successful, then trust me, your mind will come up with an answer even if it's completely outlandish. Does this mean you shouldn't be mindful of how your broker tries to exploit you? no, of course not...but we take care of that differently by trying to find weakness. If a broker has enough defenses, the answer your mind will come up will eventually be "your system" if your system is weak (and that includes the broker component), then you'll do the right thing and move brokers...however, I venture to say that when closely examined, anyone who wants to hop the news trading bandwagon now has already missed that boat...sorry, that exploit is SOOOOOO last year. So ya'll are already behind the times.

This is completely my opinion...but honestly, ask yourselves and you'll know it's true.
  • #15
  • Sep 29, 2006 12:40pm Sep 29, 2006 12:40pm
This thread was really going to hell in a handbasket fast.

Way to reel it back in and make it a worthwhile read in the end, MrMikal.

It would be nice if you (anyone) could ask a straight question and get a straight answer rather than the same old "analysis by 1,000 experts" routine.

This by far, was one of the best "advice to new traders" post all day.
Capital Preservation is key to long term wealth accumulation
  • #16
  • Edited 12:56pm Sep 29, 2006 12:45pm | Edited 12:56pm
Hi Mr. M,

my questions are just to try and make sense of what I read in the forums. It seems like there are a number of brokers who will let you trade just fine for a few months and then after that they start monkeying with you (if you are doing well). This is the impression I get.

I am just trying to understand in what circumstances brokers will start doing these things and which brokers these are.
  • #17
  • Sep 29, 2006 5:22pm Sep 29, 2006 5:22pm
Quoting ycomp
Hi Mr. M,

my questions are just to try and make sense of what I read in the forums. It seems like there are a number of brokers who will let you trade just fine for a few months and then after that they start monkeying with you (if you are doing well). This is the impression I get.

I am just trying to understand in what circumstances brokers will start doing these things and which brokers these are.
Did you even try to read my previous post? I can't speak for anyone else, but I've been profitable for quite some time now and never once have I justifiably felt monkey-ed with. With that said, there was a very horrible incident a while back, that my good friend stockwet was privvy to that WAS evidence of broker tampering. However, I ALWAYS keep 3 or 4 feeds around to ensure that I can validate a price if I ever feel that I somehow got screwed. There have been exactly 5 occasions out of the thousands of trades I've done over the past 3 years where I felt that I got shafted by the broker. 2 of thoose times resulted in an unsatisfactory response in which I left both brokers (thankfully one of them was refcoFX). 2 of the other times were immediately resolved by the broker where I was either entered in at the correct price (after getting taken out on a stop due to an abhorration) or refunded the proper trade amount (+ a few dollars for my trouble). The last time was me losing my mind and not doing my math properly.

I'm still in this business, Y and I can tell you, brokers aren't saints, but I try to ignore the little imps on my way to making a very healthy living. I'm not greedy, and perhaps that's why I haven't made my first $10 mil yet, but I am ALWAYS looking for the edge despite the lack of help from anyone.

When you focus on the things you can control with more accuracy, you'll start making money and stop asking questions.
  • #18
  • Sep 29, 2006 5:47pm Sep 29, 2006 5:47pm
Well, i was always tought that any broker under "retail" offer anything over 100:1 +NEWS and "fixed" spread is a definate scam. Why would you trade NEWS with high leverage in a broker consol that ISN'T regulated and also.

The software you're using IS against you?

It sounds like to me that unless you use mutiple brokers and have these minimal means, you're playing with fire.

I have a question, and this GOES to everyone, ok.

Just, what is so wrong with ONLY using 50:1 on variable spreads under "normal market conditions"? It sounds like to me, that alot of you are fooled into believing that "Retail News" trading is very lucrative when in reality. Eventhou i don't trade it, Technicals can be just as profitable, ifnot alot more opportune. Also, alot more safer under the radar. And before anyone asks, NO. I don't "daytrade". Tick charts do just fine for every style in my opinion. You might aswell learn them, because at the speed of brokers use to cheat. Scalping has shown to be the highest benefit, for Forex in my opinion.
  • #19
  • Edited 6:29pm Sep 29, 2006 5:57pm | Edited 6:29pm
yes, sure I read your post. It is a good post. It's just that what you mentioned there was not really what I was asking about... so I tried to clarify my question. But I did appreciate the response.

I have a certain style of trading where it is more unpleasant compared to many other styles of trading to switch brokers (sometimes I hold positions for a while), therefore I am just trying to do enough research first before choosing the appropriate broker(s).

But judging by this last post of yours, I guess things aren't as bad as I thought from the impressions the forums give me... I had been under the impression that there are certain brokers that count on you losing your account sooner or later in order to make their money and that they could get away with this because FX is growing so there are new people opening accounts all the time.

I had been getting the impressions from the charts I would see posted that some brokers would spike prices occasionaly and other such shenanigans (including widthdrawal problems). I guess this isn't the case then for many brokers, now that I've seen your stats.

as for news trading, I'm not really interested in it that much (directly)... unless maybe possibly to trade after the initial spike sometimes. But the majority of complaints seem to be by people trading news and I'm trying to separate their problems from people who don't trade the news (or at least the initial spike)

thanks for the insights

Quoting mrmikal
Did you even try to read my previous post? I can't speak for anyone else, but I've been profitable for quite some time now and never once have I justifiably felt monkey-ed with. With that said, there was a very horrible incident a while back, that my good friend stockwet was privvy to that WAS evidence of broker tampering. However, I ALWAYS keep 3 or 4 feeds around to ensure that I can validate a price if I ever feel that I somehow got screwed. There have been exactly 5 occasions out of the thousands of trades I've done over the past 3 years where I felt that I got shafted by the broker. 2 of thoose times resulted in an unsatisfactory response in which I left both brokers (thankfully one of them was refcoFX). 2 of the other times were immediately resolved by the broker where I was either entered in at the correct price (after getting taken out on a stop due to an abhorration) or refunded the proper trade amount (+ a few dollars for my trouble). The last time was me losing my mind and not doing my math properly.

I'm still in this business, Y and I can tell you, brokers aren't saints, but I try to ignore the little imps on my way to making a very healthy living. I'm not greedy, and perhaps that's why I haven't made my first $10 mil yet, but I am ALWAYS looking for the edge despite the lack of help from anyone.

When you focus on the things you can control with more accuracy, you'll start making money and stop asking questions.
  • #20
  • Sep 29, 2006 6:14pm Sep 29, 2006 6:14pm
Once somebody is adept at news trading which I am, you have LESS risk with 400 to 1 leverage...................
how is that possible you may ask, well I will tell you

1. Depending on your brokers margin call policies using a 400 to 1 account you can buy 4 full contracts GBP/USD that is 40.00 a pip for 1,000.00 dollars with spread add another (again depending on broker 120.00 to 480.00).
2. so straddling a news event for 40.00 a pip with not a lot to lose ( my opinion ) you can do quite well snatching 30 pips or more in what half a second on some releases is quite cool
Quoting Mr Trend
I totally understand and agree with your point. My post was merely meant to get him to ask himself that question because the odds are that he's wanting to make money fast.

Matter of fact, I'd trade those odds... and probably win.

Regardless... just wanting folks who think they can make a quick buck news trading to think before they do it.

If that's not the case, then it's all good.
THE MAN
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