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  • #1,361
  • Jan 29, 2018 7:45am Jan 29, 2018 7:45am
Quoting Pip-Tony
Hi, you can sign up with a new email via our link, then you can get "Discount", $1.8/Lot back to you for ECN accs
is that instant, real-time commission reduction?
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #1,362
  • Jan 29, 2018 5:11pm Jan 29, 2018 5:11pm
Quoting Pip-Tony
{quote} Hi, for ECN accounts, you open and close 1 Lot, you get $1.8 back, that is $0.9 per side. we get $2/lot from ICM, and send 90% back to traders.
Can you PM me your IB code? I'm currently with an existing IB, would be willing to ask support if I can make the switch if you are actually offering $1.8 discount..that's higher than the $1.5 I'm getting right now.
  • #1,363
  • Jan 29, 2018 9:26pm Jan 29, 2018 9:26pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} is that instant, real-time commission reduction?
Hi,

It is not real time, we will send the rebates to you, via skrill, or webmoney
Get 90% Rebates Back, No Mark UP--->Check PIPREBATES--.--com
  • #1,364
  • Jan 29, 2018 9:30pm Jan 29, 2018 9:30pm
Quoting jhehe
{quote} Can you PM me your IB code? I'm currently with an existing IB, would be willing to ask support if I can make the switch if you are actually offering $1.8 discount..that's higher than the $1.5 I'm getting right now.
Hi,

As I know, ICM won't transfer your account directly, they will ask you sign up a new one with a new email address, our link is:
http://icmarkets.com/?camp=4375


we have many brokers, most of them are 90% rebates, some higher than 90% if you made a lot of volumes, you can find more details here:
http://www.piprebates.com/brokers/

such as XM, Tickmill, EXNESS(Daily Rebates available), FXPro UK and CY, RoboForex, Swissquote, ThinkForex, Oanda AU, Z.com

Tony
Get 90% Rebates Back, No Mark UP--->Check PIPREBATES--.--com
  • #1,365
  • Edited 5:09pm Feb 11, 2018 10:15am | Edited 5:09pm
Found US 10/30/5 year Treasury Notes among ICM's CFD products, which is rare in forex brokers as far as I know.....
Looks it has a nice CFD products portfolio..... Considering moving from Pepperstone because of this reason....
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #1,366
  • Feb 12, 2018 3:35pm Feb 12, 2018 3:35pm
Quoting Pip-Tony
{quote} Hi, As I know, ICM won't transfer your account directly, they will ask you sign up a new one with a new email address, our link is: http://icmarkets.com/?camp=4375 we have many brokers, most of them are 90% rebates, some higher than 90% if you made a lot of volumes, you can find more details here: http://www.piprebates.com/brokers/ such as XM, Tickmill, EXNESS(Daily Rebates available), FXPro UK and CY, RoboForex, Swissquote, ThinkForex, Oanda AU, Z.com Tony
Unfortunately I decided to stick with my IB. I value a straight commission discount more than a pip rebate.
  • #1,367
  • Feb 12, 2018 7:41pm Feb 12, 2018 7:41pm
Quoting jhehe
{quote} Unfortunately I decided to stick with my IB. I value a straight commission discount more than a pip rebate.
Hi, No problem.

Thanks for the info.

Tony
Get 90% Rebates Back, No Mark UP--->Check PIPREBATES--.--com
  • #1,368
  • Feb 13, 2018 6:54am Feb 13, 2018 6:54am
Hi Pip-Tony

May I clarify on an ECN account, 1 standard lot - how much will the commission be round-turn?

If I open an account in GBP, will this still apply, or does it have to be opened in USD?

Thanks
  • #1,369
  • Edited 5:39pm Feb 21, 2018 4:33pm | Edited 5:39pm
For those who spout the story from ICM that they provide STP for all orders, you need to look at the youtube video by Angus Walker, Director of ICM in Sydney, Australia who intimates, as a user of TAPAAS (https://tapaas.com/ ), and also echoed in the tapaas.com page, that they take all orders internally and using back-office risk analytic program TAPAAS to decide, when your trade is making you profit, whether to pass it on to their liquidity providers or, if it is losing, to warehouse it and wait til it matures and collect the profit from your loss. The design and installation of software by Tapaas in 2014 to provide second by second analytics for the dealing desk enabled them to do real-time analytics to determine their risk by being a bucket shop for some trades or merely an agent for a STP order for others.
Inserted Video


The point is that this approach treats all orders as bucket shop orders, to be "warehoused" --that is, to be kept in-house and take the opposite side of our orders--until the decision is made to send it straight through to the LPs.
They also do analysis of individual's trading behaviour to decide whether they are a "toxic trader" or an asset to ICM. This will flag for them whether they need to send orders straight through for that person, because the probability of ICM losing money is greater than other customers, who are donating money to ICM's future success, at their own expense (which we will always have). Tapaas provides a "Client Trading Toxicity Framework" to provide robust business rules regarding the handling of toxic traders and toxic trades, a "jealously" guarded secret, Tapaas tells us.
Two phrases came to mind "Dating the Enemy" and "Dancing with the Devil." ICM feel the same way about us. We are not their friend, but they need us to achieve their financial goals. The goal is to minimise their greed by maximise our choice of good trades and making sure we get categorised as a "Toxic Trader." Interestingly, the message seems to also intimate that even orders from "toxic traders" are "warehoused" until decided they need to be STPed, if they look like they are going to go against ICM. So, although being considered a "toxic trader" does not mean that all your trades go straight through; it would mean they do a real-live risk analytic on each trade, hence the usefulness of time-series analysis. It probably also provides a predictive function to indicate possible short-term cost/benefit to keep them "warehoused", allowing them to make early decisions whether to offload them to the LB or not.
On the up-side, this means that they don't need to go stop-hunting, and I have never seen this on my charts in cTrader.
Interesting that this process of choosing to either "warehouse" most trades until they need to "STP" them is referred to as the "secret sauce" behind the success of ICM's "incredible growth" in the last few years--since they have been able to offload their "toxic" trades onto the books of the LPs in the STP through their LP bridge (which looks like it is, or used to be OneZero (https://www.icmarkets.com/forex-trad...tform/fix-api/ ) (since they are not listed on www.onezero.com site http://www.onezero.com/liquidity-hub...stem-partners/ ) and keeping only those trades that looked like losers (for the customer but winners for ICM). This process has significantly cut their losses. And details for the parameters to do this for staff would be clearly outlined in their risk management procedures that accompany their risk management policy. That would make for VERY interesting reading!
So for those blind mouths that just spout the ICM-speak that they are not market-makers but provide STP, you can now see, through the statement of Angus Walker and also Tapaas, that your nose has been growing longer with the every repeat of such a half-truth.
See also https://tapaas.com/ic-markets-incredible-growth-story/

Have provided a copy of Tapaas.com page in case it is changed.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf FX - Tapaas.pdf   1.0 MB | 571 downloads
FrankieB
  • #1,370
  • Feb 21, 2018 6:43pm Feb 21, 2018 6:43pm
Quoting FrankieB
For those who spout the story from ICM that they provide STP for all orders, you need to look at the youtube video by Angus Walker, Director of ICM in Sydney, Australia who intimates, as a user of TAPAAS (https://tapaas.com/ ), and also echoed in the tapaas.com page, that they take all orders internally and using back-office risk analytic program TAPAAS to decide, when your trade is making you profit, whether to pass it on to their liquidity providers or, if it is losing, to warehouse it and wait til it matures and collect the profit...

Interesting post and very cool. He says it in the video monthly volume of 188 Billion. Think abuot that, 188 BILLION. Dukascopy for example is 50 60- BIILLION.

SO ya you either go through the system or moved to the real market but when the internal market is 188 BILLION monthly unless your a mutli-million dollar trader you literally have nothing to worry about.

Im not defending IC, or anything I just speaking reason into the subject.
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #1,371
  • Feb 21, 2018 11:54pm Feb 21, 2018 11:54pm
Quoting Forex-Forex
Hi Pip-Tony May I clarify on an ECN account, 1 standard lot - how much will the commission be round-turn? If I open an account in GBP, will this still apply, or does it have to be opened in USD? Thanks
Hi, sorry, I just got it.

we offer 90% rebates, for USD account, it is 1.8USD/round-turn, for every Lot.

GBP account would be okay, we will send you 90% back, our account is USD, and the USD could be exchanged to GBP.

Tony
Get 90% Rebates Back, No Mark UP--->Check PIPREBATES--.--com
  • #1,372
  • Feb 22, 2018 5:06am Feb 22, 2018 5:06am
Quoting FrankieB
For those who spout the story from ICM that they provide STP for all orders, you need to look at the youtube video by Angus Walker, Director of ICM in Sydney, Australia who intimates, as a user of TAPAAS (https://tapaas.com/ ), and also echoed in the tapaas.com page, that they take all orders internally and using back-office risk analytic program TAPAAS to decide, when your trade is making you profit, whether to pass it on to their liquidity providers or, if it is losing, to warehouse it and wait til it matures and collect the profit...
Sounds logical to me? Why wouldn't IC Markets do this? If they get a long order and a short order at the same time, why wouldn't they match these instead of sending 2 orders to a liquidity provider? What's wrong with them acting as counterparty to your trade? If they send it out to an LP, that LP acts as counterparty to your trade - so what's the difference? Seems to me they're screwing their LPs by analysing trader profitability and only sending the LP toxic flow - not screwing their customers.

I can't see anything wrong with what they're doing. They're honouring all trades placed with them, do you care how they process them - whether they pay your profits out of their pocket or via an LP?

I want IC Markets to do whatever makes them the most money, so they remain solvent and pay me on winning trades, lower spreads and improve their technology.
  • #1,373
  • Feb 22, 2018 8:35am Feb 22, 2018 8:35am
Quoting TheMaxx
{quote} Sounds logical to me? Why wouldn't IC Markets do this? If they get a long order and a short order at the same time, why wouldn't they match these instead of sending 2 orders to a liquidity provider? What's wrong with them acting as counterparty to your trade? If they send it out to an LP, that LP acts as counterparty to your trade - so what's the difference? Seems to me they're screwing their LPs by analysing trader profitability and only sending the LP toxic flow - not screwing their customers. I can't see anything wrong with what they're...
Interesting take.
But are IC markets lowering your spread?
Was there in the past few yeare some groundbreaking technological advancement trading with them?
Will a broker gambling on their software to manage market be more solvent than one who passing all trades, good or bad, and not get involved in it?
Will a broker act the most honest if they actually profit more from trades that lose than interbank trade executing makes?

PS. Mind you, I trade with IC as my main broker since 2015, a solid 3 yes and counting.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #1,374
  • Feb 22, 2018 10:37am Feb 22, 2018 10:37am
Quoting TheMaxx
{quote} Sounds logical to me? Why wouldn't IC Markets do this? If they get a long order and a short order at the same time, why wouldn't they match these instead of sending 2 orders to a liquidity provider? What's wrong with them acting as counterparty to your trade? If they send it out to an LP, that LP acts as counterparty to your trade - so what's the difference? Seems to me they're screwing their LPs by analysing trader profitability and only sending the LP toxic flow - not screwing their customers. I can't see anything wrong with what they're...
it's all about conflict of interest

a broker acting as market maker (aka A-book), will do all sort of bad things to your order to increase broker profitability. stuff like slippage, delay in executions, requotes, etc.

an ECN broker, passes your order to an ECN matching engine; which does not have *conflict of interest* with clients.
  • #1,375
  • Edited 11:18pm Feb 22, 2018 5:25pm | Edited 11:18pm
Precisely, alphadude. Re conflict of interest, look at the slogan of FXCC, another ECN--"We're on your side!" Yeah, right.

But with tapaas monitoring their risk level second by second on every trade, they can keep a better handle on their risk exposure and avoid significant loss by hedging in time. This eliminates the need for gutter behaviour seen in other brokers as you've cited. They can behave more respectably.

It's just a matter of honesty, really. If you know you're dancing with the devil, you'll be more cautious (perhaps?)
But tell us. Don't make out you're doing something you're not or not doing something you are. Say something like, "When you demonstrate that you are a competent trader on a live account, you will be given access to "Straight-Through-Processing" to our Liquidity Providers, facilitated by our ECN facility. But initially we will process your orders internally."

In the end, if you choose a good trade half the time, focus on rigorous %R management with stop loss and position sizing, it should not matter if they take the opposite side or pass it on, as TheMaxx has said. You WILL be a profitable trader.
Attached are the results from analysing 43 million real-time trades. If you can't follow this advise, then you may as well write a cheque out to your broker now with the rest of your account and use your time more pleasureably. It's not rocket science.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Why Do Many Forex Traders Lose Money_ Here is the Number 1 Mistake.pdf   3.0 MB | 618 downloads
FrankieB
  • #1,376
  • Feb 22, 2018 7:40pm Feb 22, 2018 7:40pm
Quoting FrankieB
Precisely, alphadude. Re conflict of interest, look at the slogan of FXCC, another ECN--"We're on your side!" Yeah, right. But with tapaas monitoring their risk level second by second on every trade, they can keep a better handle on their risk exposure and avoid significant loss by hedging in time. This eliminates the need for gutter behaviour seen in other brokers as you've cited. They can behave more respectably. It's just a matter of honesty, really. If you know you're dancing with the devil, you'll be more cautious (perhaps?) But tell us. Don't...
Awesome article.

This article summed up in 3 lines

Why do many forex traders lose money?

"Human nature"

"They lose more money on their losing trades than they make on their winning trades"

"Cut Losses, let profits run"
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #1,377
  • Edited Feb 23, 2018 12:09am Feb 22, 2018 8:42pm | Edited Feb 23, 2018 12:09am
All true words, but the rub in the article is the phenomenon that "Prospect Theory" attempts to understand and help us deal with. Why do we let losses run and close out profits too soon, and how can we adjust our frame of mind not to become risk averse at taking profits by closing their positions before their time, and not to be risk-seeking by holding onto losses longer? There's the rub. Food for thought and implementation into the trading plan.
The brokers are thriving because it is difficult for us to recognize the scenario we are in when we are deciding to hold or to fold. This will never change....and there is the guarantee of their business plan.

The key is to set up a simple matrix of hold and fold scenarios with key cues that address the proper response to when to close out profits and how far to let losses run (position-sizing should have already been dictated by your risk plan before you entered the trade), so that these rules will replace the knee-jerk response our nature naturally provides (and incorrectly at that). This should be a significant part of our trading strategy. If tapaas provides it for ICM, then we can do the same for ourselves since we are managing a lot less trades than they are. These are simple risk management procedures, but we need to get the emotion out of the decision process--hence the need for a clarifying matrix.

For me, theses cues are clear. I follow price action principles and use mainly SR levels to dictate whether the trade is trending or changing trend. Just plain charts, a 20-period EMA and SR level lines, trendlines, and understanding of the meaning of the bars. Lesser is more.

Position Sizing is the most important one--if you don't follow your plan, but believe you will make a killing on "this" trade and you increase your lot size, you have automatically, whether you know it or not, invested more emotional baggage into that trade, making taking a loss much more unlikely than if you had not increased the lot size. If you keep emotion out of the trade, you increase the chances of following your "Hold or Fold" matrix. Hence why this decision is the most important one. Doesn't matter if you click the buy or sell button; or even toss a coin to work out which way the trade will go. Your hold and fold matrix will take care of the rest. Failure to do that, and nothing will save you from disaster....until you mature enough to decide that position-size is a powder keg and influences everything else. It is packed with compressed emotions that can ruin your life, family, career. I know it is boring to respect the %R, but that is the way forward. Al Brooks describes trading as "lonely and boring" and some use the thrill of the gamble to add some sauce to the boredom, and so they repeat the cycle that has contributed to ICM's stellar success. A significant question you need to ask yourself is "What lot size is comfortable with me at the moment so that the trade is NOT a rollercoaster ride, or forces me to be riveted to the screen to see how its going?" "What maximum loss can I accept if this trade tanks?" (Remember, half the trades you think will be good will not be!). Then that number is your UPPER limit. I know we need to stretch ourselves and get used to trading bigger lots, but that will come in time by the effect of the position sizing matrix in combination with the hold and fold matrix. Their success will force you to take larger positions as your bank increases, gradually conditioning you to a new position size.

For those who do not have a position-sizing tool, I find this one I made useful. I used the avg length of a bar in the time-frame I trade in to determine roughly the minimum stop distance. You will probably need to change this.
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...5#post10789455
If you have an algo for cTrader that gives position size for 3-4 different stop positions in real time on-screen, let me know.
FrankieB
  • #1,378
  • Feb 23, 2018 1:14am Feb 23, 2018 1:14am
Quoting alphadude
{quote} it's all about conflict of interest a broker acting as market maker (aka A-book), will do all sort of bad things to your order to increase broker profitability. stuff like slippage, delay in executions, requotes, etc. an ECN broker, passes your order to an ECN matching engine; which does not have *conflict of interest* with clients.
correction, a broker acting as a market maker MAY do all sorts of bad things to your order

all of these things are easy to spot, and then you move.
  • #1,379
  • Feb 23, 2018 8:03am Feb 23, 2018 8:03am
Quoting TheMaxx
{quote} correction, a broker acting as a market maker MAY do all sorts of bad things to your order all of these things are easy to spot, and then you move.
lol; good pick; but I am yet to find any MM broker who *May* temper with my order. so far all MM brokers I used temper with orders

can you let a good wolf hold your hands?
  • #1,380
  • Feb 24, 2018 12:08am Feb 24, 2018 12:08am
[quote=FrankieB;10807256]The goal is to minimise their greed by maximise our choice of good trades and making sure we get categorised as a "Toxic Trader." Interestingly, the message seems to also intimate that even orders from "toxic traders" are "warehoused" until decided they need to be STPed, if they look like they are going to go against ICM. So, although being considered a "toxic trader" does not mean that all your trades go straight through; it would mean they do a real-live risk analytic on each trade, hence the usefulness of time-series analysis. It probably also provides a predictive function to indicate possible short-term cost/benefit to keep them "warehoused", allowing them to make early decisions whether to offload them to the LB or not."

In reference to the above comment, am I then correct in saying that it does not really matter if you have an ECN or STANDARD account with them, except offcourse for the trading cost.

Thanks
Lyn
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