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  • #1,941
  • Dec 21, 2017 6:52am Dec 21, 2017 6:52am
Quoting Tatachar
{quote} Okay I have modified the levels to what is available with default Fib edit box. {image}
OK now do the following delete all levels
Now add levels 1 by 1
1.0 8/8th %$
0.875 7/8th %$
0.750 6/8ths %$
0.625 5/8th %$
0.500 4/8ths %$
0.375 3/8th %$
0.250 2/8th %$
0.125 1/8th %$
0.0 0/8th %$
  • #1,942
  • Dec 21, 2017 7:17am Dec 21, 2017 7:17am
Quoting OAPDave
{quote} OK now do the following delete all levels Now add levels 1 by 1 1.0 8/8th %$ 0.875 7/8th %$ 0.750 6/8ths %$ 0.625 5/8th %$ 0.500 4/8ths %$ 0.375 3/8th %$ 0.250 2/8th %$ 0.125 1/8th %$ 0.0 0/8th %$
Okay, looks good now. Should I add more levels above 1 and below 0 as well?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #1,943
  • Dec 21, 2017 7:24am Dec 21, 2017 7:24am
Quoting Tatachar
{quote} Okay, looks good now. Should I add more levels above 1 and below 0 as well? {image}
ADD the symbols %$ after the fraction and you will get the price
Yes you can add a + set by Adding a 1 eg 1.125 ,1.25 etc and a minus set by -0.025,-0.250 etc
  • #1,944
  • Dec 21, 2017 8:05am Dec 21, 2017 8:05am
UTILISATION OF THE FRACTAL OF PRICE


The main idea is that the "Fractal" of Price goes from the SRL (Support & Resistance Level) 0/8 to 8/8 - this Fractal is ruled by its Price Octave of value =1/8 th of the Price Range. (12.5 % of the Fractal of Price)

As long as Price Action does not fluctuate above the Upper (SRL 8/8 Ultimate Resistance) and under the Lower (SRL 0/8 Baseline) Limits of the Fractal of Price of plus or minus 25 %, Price Action will be "ruled" by the same "Octave" (your Octave Gap).

Above or under these limits Price Action are ruled by another "Octave (Octave Gap), multiplied or divided by 2 because they have penetrated in a different price territory.

Let's take an example with SES GLOBAL - a french corporation. an old example published years ago

The table shows us the Fractal of Price ruling the Price Action of SES GLOBAL for a Top of 19.08 (at the time) and a Bottom of 11.34

Then the Price Range is 9.375 points = 20.3125 - 10.9375 . Price Octave = 0.78125

Let's assume that SES GLOBAL Price Action breaks the Upper Limit of the Price Range, then we get a new Fractal.

The new Price Range is now 18.5 points = 28.125 - 9.375 with a Price Octave (Octave Gap) of 1.5625

Price Range and Price Octave (Octave Gap) have simultaneously doubled.
Attached Image
  • #1,945
  • Dec 21, 2017 8:07am Dec 21, 2017 8:07am
If you compare the Fractal of Price BEFORE Price Action broke its upper limit of 20,3125 with the new Fractal AFTER Price Action has broken 20,3125 generated for example if Price Action of SES GLOBAL has reached 20.50, you observe that :

- Support and Resistance Line SRL (0/8) stayed the same in both fractals.

Reason is that the last significant bottom has not changed. Price Action has only broken the upper limit of the previous fractal.

- One key point is that the former Support & Resistance Line SRL (8/8) whose property was Ultimate Support & Resistance become in the new Fractal the Support & Resistance Line SRL (4/8) - whose property is Major Support & Resistance / Center of Gravity.

- The former Support & Resistance Line (4/8) whose properties were Major Support & Resistance / Center of Gravity become in the new Fractal Support and Resistance Line SRL (2/8) whose properties are Pivot, Reverse.

- The Support & Resistance Line SRL (2/8) in the former Fractal become in the new Fractal the Support and Resistance Line SRL (1/8) - whose properties are Weak, Stall & Reverse.

From a Strong Line in the former Fractal SRL (2/8) is now a Weak Line in the new Fractal. Everything is relative.

- The Support & Resistance Line SRL (6/8) in the former Fractal whose properties were Pivot, Reverse become in the new Fractal the Lower Limit of the Trading Zone (3/8).

- The Support & Resistance Line SRL (+ 2/8) in the former Fractal become the Upper Limit of the Trading Zone (5/8) in the new Fractal.

Following the extension or contraction of the Fractals of Price the Support & Resistance Lines (SRL) see their status change, have different properties and sometimes simply vanished.
Attached Image
  • #1,946
  • Dec 21, 2017 8:24am Dec 21, 2017 8:24am
Quoting parisboy
UTILISATION OF THE FRACTAL OF PRICE The main idea is that the "Fractal" of Price goes from the SRL (Support & Resistance Level) 0/8 to 8/8 - this Fractal is ruled by its Price Octave of value =1/8 th of the Price Range. (12.5 % of the Fractal of Price) As long as Price Action does not fluctuate above the Upper (SRL 8/8 Ultimate Resistance) and under the Lower (SRL 0/8 Baseline) Limits of the Fractal of Price of plus or minus 25 %, Price Action will be "ruled" by the same "Octave" (your Octave Gap). Above or under these limits Price Action are ruled...
Guys. Parisboy is well versed with Murrey this is a great explanation of why and what a chart-shift means, his posts need to be read if you are at all interested in trading with Murrey, what I am attempting to show is the next levels up and down, by fixing the Octave size to a given pip value, ( not the double size) from a chart shift in advance, also keeping a bit of history on my chart
  • #1,947
  • Dec 21, 2017 8:43am Dec 21, 2017 8:43am
The first step of Gann estimation of the Law of Vibration was de facto the division by 8 of a Price Interval generally between a Low and a Top.

As I showed it this division mimics a parabol which mimics the graphical representation of the Fibonacci ( to my knowledge Gann never wrote such explanations)

To paraphrase Jim Hurst it is " a robust, but not bad" approximation
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GANN VERSION 1.0 DIVISION BY 8.jpg Size: 26 KB
  • #1,948
  • Edited 9:14am Dec 21, 2017 8:49am | Edited 9:14am
Gann Version 2.0 is the division by 8 of a FIXED Interval, interval which is not specific to a particular financial instrument and a specific price movement of this financial instrument..
This FIXED interval is active and operative for whatever financial instruments whose price movement fluctuates within the interval.

The first interval studied was the interval (0-10) . And the Octave is 10 / 8 = 1,25.

Practically it means that ALL financial instruments whose price movement fluctuates within the Price Range (0-10) is very sensitive to the Octave (Vibration) 1.25 and its subdivision.

If a financial instrument price movement fluctuates above 10, it is assumed that the price movement of this financial instrument fluctuates within a Price Range (0-100) of a higher order.

You can see on the Table that you just have to move the decimal on the right to get the new Octave and the new divisions of the Price Range.

Gann Version 2.0 was popularized by T.H. Murrey under the Name of "Murrey Maths" - Autosimilarity (or Fractalization) is the Core of Murrey Maths

This system is very simple and portable, you manipulate always the same numbers and proportions.

Obviously for Forex use you just have to move the decimal on the left to get the new Octave and the new divisions of the Price Range.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GANN VERSION 2.0 AUTOSIMILARITY.jpg Size: 65 KB
  • #1,949
  • Dec 21, 2017 8:55am Dec 21, 2017 8:55am
What are the advantages of Gann Version 2.0 over the 1.0 Version ?

  1. Stability : No automatic need to recalculate the Price Range and the Octave as soon as price movement reaches a new High or a new Bottom.
  2. Simplicity of use :

you just have to move the decimal on the right or on the left to follow the fluctuations of price movement when you have to use a new "Fractal of Price" (Price Range) up or down

you manipulate always the same numbers and proportions.

- Efficiency :

  1. you can easyly compare the different price movements of the concerned financial instrument within the same "fractal of Price" (Price Range)
  2. you can easyly compare the price movements of several different financial instruments fluctuating within the same "fractal of Price" (Trading Range)
  3. you can create "groups" of financial instruments which have a similar behavior within the same "fractal of Price" which IMHO is a refinement of Hurst's concept of "Commonality"

  • #1,950
  • Dec 21, 2017 9:50am Dec 21, 2017 9:50am
for those of you interested in Murrey
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf The Murrey Math Trading System.pdf   142 KB | 655 downloads
  • #1,951
  • Edited 11:56am Dec 21, 2017 11:32am | Edited 11:56am
Tim Kruzel Notes were from almost the beginning the CORE of ALL systems issued from "Murrey Maths" and available on forums.

The "Book" of Murrey (which is not a book) is not so structured

Kruzel had the book - and was a member of the forum where "Murrey Maths" were discussed

Kruzel send the "notes" to Murrey with a "cover" mail . The content of the mail was roughly " I made a résumé of your chaotic writings to simplify and structure your thoughts and writings. Could you confirm me that I am right ?"

It was more diplomatically said - but that was the basic idea
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Kruzel, T.(2002)_Murrey Math Study Notes.pdf   314 KB | 1,698 downloads
  • #1,952
  • Edited 6:07pm Dec 21, 2017 5:49pm | Edited 6:07pm
Let's talk now about the Phase of Transition between 2 adjacent "Fractal of Price".

As you can notice in the Table, the first "Fractal of Price" goes from 0 to 10 with an Octave of 10 / 8 (1,25), the following fractal goes fom 0 to 100 and includes the first one.

BUT if you look attentively you see that in the second fractal the First 1/8 th Interval goes from 0 to 12.5 and that this Interval includes the WHOLE preceding Fractal (0-10) but goes further from 10 to 12.5.

This Extension or Gap is a Phase of Transition (hesitation) Zone.

If Price goes slightly above 10 you do not know if Price will go over 12.5 and penetrate decisively in the second interval of the Fractal (0-100) up to 25 (and above) or if Price will go back and reintegrate the first Fractal (0-10)

This explain why for each Fractal of Price you have a Phase of Transition between 2 adjacent Fractal of Price whose amplitude is equal to 1/4 of the previous Fractal of Price or 2 previious Octave Gaps

This Phase of Transition can also be described as an Hesitation Zone
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GANN VERSION 2.0 AUTOSIMILARITY + 25%.jpg Size: 70 KB
  • #1,953
  • Dec 21, 2017 7:12pm Dec 21, 2017 7:12pm
Quoting parisboy
UTILISATION OF THE FRACTAL OF PRICE The main idea is that the "Fractal" of Price goes from the SRL (Support & Resistance Level) 0/8 to 8/8 - this Fractal is ruled by its Price Octave of value =1/8 th of the Price Range. (12.5 % of the Fractal of Price) As long as Price Action does not fluctuate above the Upper (SRL 8/8 Ultimate Resistance) and under the Lower (SRL 0/8 Baseline) Limits of the Fractal of Price of plus or minus 25 %, Price Action will be "ruled" by the same "Octave" (your Octave Gap). Above or under these limits Price Action are ruled...
A key reason to trade with expectations within the MML bounds upper and lower but also the impact of the time factor on the fractals.

The time factor (MMP in the common MML indicator) associated with any pre-determined MML Grid 0/8 through 8/8 eventually leads to a change in the octaves and of a lower value in almost all situations.

In effect a tightening of the price action forces a reduction in the MML Grid dimensions including the octaves.

Once PA drives either out above or down below the extreme MML zones then indeed a new trading range is created based on the fractals and subsequently an increase in the octave gap.

Observation of a dynamic MML Grid (with the time factor of course) with any settings on any time frame will eventually show changes to the octave sizes and how they fluctuate throughout all time rising up and reducing down.

The lower TF charts therefore show a much greater tendency to more frequent octave fluctuations when compared to their larger cousins.

The MML Grid design traded should be left to the individual trader to decide.

However, I have found that the higher the time frame (D1 for example) the more likely the trading results are to be consistent.

Trader success rate applying the MML Grid varies incredibly widely to say the least.

Good trading,

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #1,954
  • Dec 21, 2017 8:21pm Dec 21, 2017 8:21pm
EURUSD [D1; 64]
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 49 KB

The most reliable and easily tradeable MML Grid in general is a D1 TF with P=64.

For those traders wishing to trade intraday then they need to be content with a higher average losing rate since in general stops are smaller.

Price has a shorter distance to travel on a tighter stop setup and therefore a higher probability of being hit compared to a wider stop.

A compromise must be made between expected frequency of losses and the preferred TF.

A SL of 1.5*Octave Gap on a D1 Chart works wonders most of the time.

This thread is about the D1 Quad-MML System in part because it offers a much higher strike rate and plenty of opportunity to build into positions over time at a relaxed pace and still generate a very healthy return.

For account balances with low leverage and funds under 1000 then I'd recommend either saving up the extra dollars or trading a H1 TF since it still works nicely in general but typically has smaller stops.

On the other extreme I see no point in trading a weekly or monthly chart on an average sized trading account simply because the stops are far too large if the 1.5*Octave Gap (applied SL) is maintained for all trades.

The D1 TF offers the best of both worlds in my view ... I suggest traders use it and enjoy far more relaxed trading.

In amongst all of the choices the overall greatest contributors are risk, trade and money management skills ... stricter the safer !

Trader choice but I've made my views clear.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #1,955
  • Edited 7:48pm Dec 23, 2017 1:59pm | Edited 7:48pm
UNDERSTANDING THE FRACTALIZATION AND THE OCTAVE RELATIVITY

The best way to understand pratically how a Fractal of Price develops itself is to follow its path since its Initial Public Offering (IPO)

IPO are great ! you have all the data .

Our example will be Facebook.

Today Facebook Price Action fluctuates just under 187,50.

Then can not be reputed being in the Fractal of Price 0/100, not even 0-125

Then Facebook will be reputed to fluctuate within the Fractal of Price 0/1000. The Major Octave will be 1000/8 = 125

But everybody can observe that this graph shows us no useful informations.

Then we obviously have to use an intermediary "Fractal" - an "operative" Fractal of Price

Visually the Fractal 0-250 seems a good candidate. This "operative Fractal" has a "heighth of 2 Major Octaves = 2 x 125

Then the Operative Octave is 250 / 8 = 31,25
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: FACEBOOK SRL 0-1000.jpg Size: 131 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: FACEBOOK SRL 0-250.jpg Size: 137 KB
  • #1,956
  • Edited 3:01pm Dec 23, 2017 2:17pm | Edited 3:01pm
As for now Facebook Price Action fluctuates sllightly under 187,50

187,5 is the Support & Resistance Line (SRL) (6/8) in red whose Properties are Pivot & Reverse - it is a strong Resistance

As you can observe the Chart has be divided in 4 parts . It could have been more , but let us be simple to understand the process and its development.

Facebook IPO was 37.5 $ (a little more - but we will say 37.5 for the beauty of the demonstration)

37.5 is above 12,5 , then at the time of the IPO (may 2012) we know immediately that Facebook Price Action will fluctuate within the Fractal of Price 0/100, with a maximum of 125 and that Facebook Octave is 100 / 8 = 12,5

Then we know that Facebook Price Action can go :

- Down to 0 - with significant Resistance at 25 and 12,5
- Up to 100 or 125

obviously we do not know yet if these targets will be reached and when

If Price Action goes Up we know that our Risk Reward is

a) 62.5 / 37.5 = 166 %
b) 62,5 + 25 = 87.5 / 37 .5 = 233 %
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: FACEBOOK SRL 0-250.jpg Size: 137 KB
  • #1,957
  • Edited 3:01pm Dec 23, 2017 2:34pm | Edited 3:01pm
You can observe that Facebook Chart has been divided in 4 parts numbered 1 to 4

As Facebook IPO was 37.5 we have choosen as its first "operative Fractal of Price" the Fractal 0/62.5 (noted 1) whose Octave is 62.5 / 8 = 7,8125

As soon as Facebook Price Action broke 62.50 ( the Support & Resistance Line (8/8) of the Fractal 0/62.5) then Facebook enter in a new Fractal of Price (noted 2) (0/125) whose Octave is 125 / 2 = 15.625

Time goes on but Price Action does not break 125 - so we keep the Fractal of Price 0/125 but double its area up to June 2016

Then when shortly after June 2016 Facebook Price Action breaks 125 we double then the Fractal of Price up to 250 and the area up to 2020
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: FACEBOOK SRL 0-250.jpg Size: 137 KB
  • #1,958
  • Edited 3:34pm Dec 23, 2017 2:51pm | Edited 3:34pm
My experience is that you cannot Analyze and Trade ONLY with the Horizontal Lines = Support and Resistance Lines

It is better to add the Angles (Diagonal Lines) which gives additional information on Trend, Speed and Acceleration

Here the Angles chart of Facebook shows that Price Action follows very closely the (1x1) Angle ( 1 Price Unit x 1 Time Unit) whose Gann tells us that it is "the most important Angle" " the place where Time and Price "squares" (are balanced)

On the Facebook Angle chart you can observe that :

- very shortly after its IPO Facebook Price Action fluctuates within the Ascending Hesitation Zone (in light green) limited by the (3/4) and (4/3) Angle
- the area (in dark green) above the (1x1) Angle (in blue) and under the Price Action and the area (in rose) under the (1x1) Angle (in blue) and the Price Action are more or less equivalent
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: FACEBOOK ANGLES 2012-2020.jpg Size: 174 KB
  • #1,959
  • Dec 24, 2017 1:40pm Dec 24, 2017 1:40pm
Mastermind,

Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year !

st888
Attached Image
  • #1,960
  • Dec 31, 2017 6:48am Dec 31, 2017 6:48am
Quoting seatrader888
Mastermind, Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year ! st888 {image}
Happy New Year and a very prosperous 2018 to all traders.

Masterrmind.........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
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