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  • #1,501
  • Dec 15, 2017 5:58pm Dec 15, 2017 5:58pm
Quoting cat
I'm wondering if there is anything specific that certain people are having difficulty with, because this may be a great place to receive some valuable tips from some experienced traders. Could be anything, you know.. timing entries, exits, setting stop losses, money management etc. Chart shots can be posted, perhaps showing areas where people messed up. If there's no response, then I'll assume everyone is making loads of money and needs no help at all.
Your profile states you use IG ?
Have you tried their MT4 or Prorealtime chart packages?
Have you any preference among the two?
Cheers
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #1,502
  • Dec 15, 2017 9:33pm Dec 15, 2017 9:33pm
Quoting cat
I'm wondering if there is anything specific that certain people are having difficulty with, because this may be a great place to receive some valuable tips from some experienced traders. Could be anything, you know.. timing entries, exits, setting stop losses, money management etc. Chart shots can be posted, perhaps showing areas where people messed up. If there's no response, then I'll assume everyone is making loads of money and needs no help at all.
Well iam having real trouble with exits now..It is so hard to define a exit point .Now iam trying to focus my exit based on a 5 day mv. Still it needs a lot of work ,Maybe you could help me with that .Iam a swing trader my entries are based on m15/1hr time frames and exits i try using 5 day mv on 4hr tf as it keeps me longer in the trade with chance for a good R:R. I only enter the market if there a setup on 4h/ daily time frames
  • #1,503
  • Dec 16, 2017 6:17am Dec 16, 2017 6:17am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Your profile states you use IG ? Have you tried their MT4 or Prorealtime chart packages? Have you any preference among the two? Cheers
Hi turnip.

As you'll see if you look at my chart shots, I use IG Prorealtime which you can also get from Intertrader for free. I have never used MT4 as I have used Prorealtime from day 1 of my trading career.
  • #1,504
  • Dec 16, 2017 6:41am Dec 16, 2017 6:41am
Quoting shoen123
{quote} Well iam having real trouble with exits now..It is so hard to define a exit point .Now iam trying to focus my exit based on a 5 day mv. Still it needs a lot of work ,Maybe you could help me with that .Iam a swing trader my entries are based on m15/1hr time frames and exits i try using 5 day mv on 4hr tf as it keeps me longer in the trade with chance for a good R:R. I only enter the market if there a setup on 4h/ daily time frames
Hi shoen,

Yes, exits are hard, really hard, and most traders I know have trouble choosing the right exit. In my own opinion, the more one gets to know the market one is trading, its range, its reach, and its personality, the better one becomes at picking good exits. That has certainly been the case with me.

Your method is very different to mine though, and I'll sometimes enter trades based only on a 1m set up when higher tfs are ambiguous, using the 20sec tf to really pin down the optimal entry. Each morning I study my charts before the London open and firstly decide which way I think the main move for the morning is going to go, and then I look to see how far it is likely to go, with all the likely S&R areas in between, how strong I think they are going to be etc. From this I get a pretty good idea, and I do this by looking to see where any S&R trendlines are coming through, where the daily pivots are in relation to the moving averages I use, and the fibonacci levels. Where some or all of these converge within what I consider to be that day's range, is usually the level I'll be watching closely for a possible exit. I only set a TP if I have to leave my desk, otherwise I monitor the trade and exit manually, and fortunately, discipline has never been a problem of mine, so for me Exit means Exit!

In short, I gauge each trade and define my exits accordingly. I generally move my SL to half when I am 20 pips in the clear, and BE at 30, though again, this depends on whether the range has been stretched or not by previous price movement.
  • #1,505
  • Dec 16, 2017 7:08am Dec 16, 2017 7:08am
I also try to base my exit according to the market conditions but havent worked good so far ,exits using ma made sense to me so right now iam focusing on exits using ma.It is sooo hard still
  • #1,506
  • Dec 16, 2017 7:19am Dec 16, 2017 7:19am
Quoting shoen123
I also try to base my exit according to the market conditions but havent worked good so far ,exits using ma made sense to me so right now iam focusing on exits using ma.It is sooo hard still
Try and put yourself into the mind of the market...what are the big players looking for and at? If you see no logical reason to exit apart from your own personal pip preference, don't exit, because just like entries, exits are identifiable if you know what the main market participants are looking for. Nothing is random in trading, and no price will simply stop and turn around without good reason. See my favourite trading book on my profile. It's a cracker and helped me to read the mind of the market, 100 years old though it is.
  • #1,507
  • Dec 16, 2017 10:15am Dec 16, 2017 10:15am
As new traders come to this thread all the time, here's something worth repeating. It is my opinion, and those who wish to disagree are welcome.

Trading can be an extremely profitable business, it requires no start up capital beyond that which you need to fund a trading, account, and people are free to begin trading whenever they like. To the uninitiated it also looks like a pretty easy thing to get the hang of. This is why many people will pay for courses and strategies which promise almost immediate results, the ' why spend years learning how to trade when I can buy someone else's successful strategy and start earning right away ' approach.

Are there really people dumb enough to think that you ask? You bet there are, thousands of them, which is why there are so many gurus out there offering miracle strategies guaranteeing huge profits. Believe me, ask any experienced trader, it does not work like that.

There is only one way to trade profitably on a consistent basis, and that is through trial and error, lots of study, lots of practice, and lots of patience.

DO NOT pay anyone for anything, because we spend enough time and money during the learning process, and this will not be shortened by using short cuts - there aren't any.

Can you learn anything from others? Yes, I believe so, which is why I started this thread. It's free, there's loads of great info in it, from many traders, and every word is there to help, free of deceit, and no intention from anyone other than helping others navigate their way through the minefield that is trading. If you have a question, anything you need help with, then just ask an experienced trader, because I have found that those who are seriously concerned only with their own trading, will help you out as best they can.

Any truly profitable trader would not be wasting their time selling strategies, they would be trading. I rest my case.
  • #1,508
  • Dec 16, 2017 12:43pm Dec 16, 2017 12:43pm
Quoting mr.brown
{quote} do u mind if I ask how do u set ur mind up for a trading day?
I do not mind at all, and it's a great question because I attach great importance to it.

I exercise pre-trade. I give myself a good hour. Most mornings it is 1 hour of yoga and core strengthening exercises. On mornings when I don't do yoga, I go for a run or a brisk walk along the seashore where I live. This clears the mind, makes me feel good physically and mentally, and prepares me for the day ahead. If I feel lethargic and tired, I cannot trade. I exercise after trading as well, which is just as important.
  • #1,509
  • Edited Dec 17, 2017 12:22am Dec 16, 2017 1:06pm | Edited Dec 17, 2017 12:22am
Quoting cat
Any truly profitable trader would not be wasting their time selling strategies, they would be trading. I rest my case.
Back in August I paid $1497 to attend a workshop run by an institutional trader with more than 30 years' experience. I learned vastly more in those 3 weeks than I have in my entire 15 years of tinkering myself, including concepts that I'd never have thought of in a million years, and are not available anywhere on the internet.

It's against the rules to post his name outside the commercial forum. However, to provide some kind of validation, I listed many of the topics covered in the workshop here (see the third paragraph).

Having said that, I agree that trading ultimately comes down to mastering a process, and that knowledge is worthless unless/until the individual finds his own way of applying a suitable strategy consistently. Patience, dedication, resilience, keeping a steady nerve under pressure, self-belief, continual practice, experience, accuracy and consistency of execution, ...... developing and nurturing these essential qualities starts and ends only within each individual.
  • #1,510
  • Dec 17, 2017 8:40am Dec 17, 2017 8:40am
Quoting hanover
{quote} Back in August I paid $1497 to attend a workshop run by an institutional trader with more than 30 years' experience. I learned vastly more in those 3 weeks than I have in my entire 15 years of tinkering myself, including concepts that I'd never have thought of in a million years, and are not available anywhere on the internet. It's against the rules to post his name outside the commercial forum. However, to provide some kind of validation, I listed many of the topics covered in the workshop here...
Interesting post through your link hanover. I will hold judgement on whether all you listed is necessary for retail trader profitability, as most of that is alien to me, and most probably would intimidate all but the most experienced of traders. I would also briefly like to respond to your final paragraph -

" I would also be wary of anybody who spends a lot of time trying to justify themselves by defending trivial criticisms, or by merely posting fluff. The professional traders that I've communicated with over the years simply go about the business of generating income for themselves; they care little about the opinions of amateurs and forum wannabes. Most of them don't even bother with trading forums like this one "

What would be ' fluff ' in your estimation?
I think if one cared little about other peoples opinions, there would be little point in posting anything.
Many professional traders I am sure sit in their home office as we all do, with little or no trading communication with the outside world, silently and efficiently generating income for themselves and for their family. There will however also be professional traders who are rather more socially inclined and will, from time to time wish to interact with other traders, not necessarily those with as much trading experience as they have, but also with those who are learning the ropes and keen to learn as much about the business as possible. What a sorry world it would be if those who had reached the promised land merely closed the door between themselves and everyone else in quiet isolation.

Therefore I actually disagree with your last sentence in that I do not think most professional traders do not bother with a forum such as this, some certainly will not, but I think many will. However, if you know of another trading forum more frequented by professional traders than ff, then I and I'm sure others would like to know which one it is.

Sure there is a lot of bullshit on this forum, I know that as well as anyone else, and I tend to avoid the interactive threads for that reason alone, but there is also plenty of very useful information here as well, and it is up to each of us to determine what is genuinely helpful, and what is just 'fluff '.
  • #1,511
  • Edited 1:48pm Dec 17, 2017 11:36am | Edited 1:48pm
Quoting cat
I will hold judgement on whether all you listed is necessary for retail trader profitability, as most of that is alien to me, and most probably would intimidate all but the most experienced of traders.
Fair enough, but I didn't say it was necessary. I was profitable myself -- well, ahead for this year, at least! -- before I attended the workshop. But I've always been curious about institutional trading, and wanted to expand my knowledge, and I did indeed learn a huge amount; some of those topics I'd never heard of before, let alone how a trader might use them profitably. Like I said, it would require a lot more coaching and practice for me to be able to implement them confidently myself!

You had said that "Any truly profitable trader would not be wasting their time selling strategies, they would be trading" and I was attempting to say "excuse me, kind sir, but I happen to have discovered an exception to that rule". I happen to know a couple of other profitable traders who also sell (or have sold) education as a sideline. I've posted details in the commercial forum.

Quote
I would also briefly like to respond to your final paragraph - " I would also be wary of anybody who spends a lot of time trying to justify themselves by defending trivial criticisms, or by merely posting fluff. The professional traders that I've communicated with over the years simply go about the business of generating income for themselves; they care little about the opinions of amateurs and forum wannabes. Most of them don't even bother with trading forums like this one "
The few 'pro' traders that I know personally prefer not to share their wisdom on trading forums. I'm not saying that there aren't other profitable traders who post here! Nonetheless, I don't regard somebody like myself, who trades a couple of small accounts intermittently as a hobby, as a 'pro'. To me, a 'pro' is somebody whose profession is trading, like a bank or prop trader, or fund manager, or at the very least a self-employed person for whom trading is their livelihood. Of course other people's definition of where to draw the line between 'pro' and 'amateur' may differ.

Quote
What would be ' fluff ' in your estimation?
At the risk of sounding pedantic...... perhaps the context of my post was not clear. The OP of that thread (jecklom) was claiming to have bank/institutional experience, and I was challenging him to prove it. He was copy/pasting a lot of famous photoquotes (perhaps to make himself appear knowledgeable?), some of which had little to do with trading IMHO, which I would describe as 'fluff'. Merely quoting Einstein or Henry Ford doesn't make one profitable at forex! Anyway, since I had that exchange with him, his intentions have been called out as being dubious, and he's subsequently been made a commercial member by the FF admins. Read the thread, if you wish, and decide for yourself how much folk might benefit from spending money with jecklom.

I wasn't challenging anybody else's credibility except jecklom's.
And the only reason I even referenced that post was to save retyping the list of institutional topics here!

This is a great thread IMHO, and I have nothing but respect for all that you've contributed here.
I wish you a safe and happy festive season and a prosperous 2018.

David
  • #1,512
  • Dec 17, 2017 2:09pm Dec 17, 2017 2:09pm
Quoting hanover
{quote}To me, a 'pro' is somebody whose profession is trading, like a bank or prop trader, or fund manager, or at the very least a self-employed person for whom trading is their livelihood. Of course other people's definition of where to draw the line between 'pro' and 'amateur' may differ.
To me, a 'pro' is someone who is an expert in actual day to day trading, eg. a pro basketball player or a pro footballer. Those guys who hold jobs in banks or prop trader, or fund manager who trades opm are definitely not 'pro', far from it in the context of my defintion of 'pro'. They can be no better than the rookie trader if not worse in actual live trading.
  • #1,513
  • Edited 2:45pm Dec 17, 2017 2:29pm | Edited 2:45pm
Quoting skyway
To me, a 'pro' is someone who is an expert in actual day to day trading, eg. a pro basketball player or a pro footballer. Those guys who hold jobs in banks or prop trader, or fund manager who trades opm are definitely not 'pro', far from it in the context of my defintion of 'pro'. They can be no better than the rookie trader if not worse in actual live trading.
Fair enough.

From what I've read, with many top UK firms, you've got to be darn good just to qualify for an interview, and then any successful candidates who subsequently perform poorly within their first few months are quickly replaced by other applicants. It's a highly competitive industry where there are no prizes for coming second and always a million wannabes just itching for an opportunity to prove that they're better than you are.
  • #1,514
  • Dec 17, 2017 2:59pm Dec 17, 2017 2:59pm
Quoting hanover
{quote}Fair enough, but I didn't say it was necessary. I was profitable myself -- well, ahead for this year, at least! -- before I attended the workshop. But I've always been curious about institutional trading, and wanted to expand my knowledge, and I did indeed learn a huge amount; some of those topics I'd never heard of before, let alone how a trader might use them profitably. Like I said, it would require a lot more coaching and practice for me to be able to implement them confidently myself! You had said that "Any truly profitable trader would...
you are right, i dont know good traders too, who present their trading methods. at max they help with mistakes and total wrong fantasy dreams and teach the basics (math, market, strategy finding , designing and testing).


a pro (professional) trader its possible to define in different terms.
a pro can be a person who is payed for what he is doing in trading, like any other pro in jobs, so most are institutional jobs. (can be good or bad in trading)
a pro can be a trader who has good wins near all the time with small drawdowns. (has to be good in trading)
a pro can be a person who is doing something very long and you know many facts and experience. (can be good or bad in trading)

for me only a person is pro, who is trading good with very small drawdown, and it is not important if this person works for other or for himself. but the english word "professional" has really many translations.

with jecklom you are right, but you are much to nice to him (maybe thatswhy he did not block you like any other who spoke about his cheating style). i did say a long time before (like many others too) how he is faking his wins and why he can show with this tricks each month this 100% minimum win very easy. there is no need to be very nice to an extrem faker. when something its wrong , its wrong, and with such easy possible to see his fakes and how he is doing the fake its more easy to warn the people about this fact. that he fakes experience is of course true, but thats near always the fact for near all cheaters. and his "100% guarantee win per month banking system" title already told this.
  • #1,515
  • Dec 17, 2017 3:39pm Dec 17, 2017 3:39pm
All good above, and thanks guys for your input, but let's not get into a discussion about what defines a pro trader, because it really is quite simple. If you trade for a living, you are a pro, if you don't you are not. It is no more complicated than that.
  • #1,516
  • Dec 17, 2017 3:52pm Dec 17, 2017 3:52pm
[quote=hanover;10598849]{quote} You had said that "Any truly profitable trader would not be wasting their time selling strategies, they would be trading" and I was attempting to say "excuse me, kind sir, but I happen to have discovered an exception to that rule". I happen to know a couple of other profitable traders who also sell (or have sold) education as a sideline. I've posted details in the commercial forum. {quote}2018.

Of course, there are always exceptions to any rule. Life has taught me to be cynical I'm afraid, especially where money is concerned!
  • #1,517
  • Dec 17, 2017 4:22pm Dec 17, 2017 4:22pm
Quoting cat
Quoting hanover
{quote} You had said that "Any truly profitable trader would not be wasting their time selling strategies, they would be trading" and I was attempting to say "excuse me, kind sir, but I happen to have discovered an exception to that rule". I happen to know a couple of other profitable traders who also sell (or have sold) education as a sideline. I've posted details in the commercial forum. {quote}2018. Of course, there are always exceptions to any rule. Life has taught me to be cynical I'm afraid, especially where money is
...
but there are exeptions to your exeption :-).
only not still very profitable traders sell education or they are small porfitable and dont sell daytrading strategies, if they are both and do selling it, then they are cheater (and know it will not work) or not smart. thats easy point and not worth to discuss because its so easy.
  • #1,518
  • Dec 17, 2017 4:38pm Dec 17, 2017 4:38pm
Quoting cat
All good above, and thanks guys for your input, but let's not get into a discussion about what defines a pro trader, because it really is quite simple. If you trade for a living, you are a pro, if you don't you are not. It is no more complicated than that.
Hi, so what does that mean for those who are making a living from just selling holy-grail indicators and trading systems/ robots? Surely, they call themselves pro traders in order to market their products and they must atleast know how to trade profitably?

But you know, for a solo-retail trader, that does not matter at all. Because you either make profit or you don't and calling your self a pro will not make you suddenly always profitable hehehe
"Work hard, put in the effort, and follow your dreams..." -Me
  • #1,519
  • Dec 17, 2017 6:24pm Dec 17, 2017 6:24pm
Quoting cat
I'm wondering if there is anything specific that certain people are having difficulty with, because this may be a great place to receive some valuable tips from some experienced traders. Could be anything, you know.. timing entries, exits, setting stop losses, money management etc. Chart shots can be posted, perhaps showing areas where people messed up. If there's no response, then I'll assume everyone is making loads of money and needs no help at all.
I'd like to know what you think of these charts ? Where would you make an entry ?
The top is 4h, the middle 1h and the bottom is 15m where I'm looking to make an entry (long),
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  • #1,520
  • Dec 17, 2017 6:54pm Dec 17, 2017 6:54pm
professionals can move price, amateurs cannot.
NO MATTER THE SITUATION,NEVER LET YOUR EMOTIONS OVERPOWER YOUR INTELLIGENCE
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