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Higher Edge within a Single Candlestick

  • #1,881
  • Dec 9, 2017 3:50pm Dec 9, 2017 3:50pm
Quoting phoenix168
{quote} Hi sunnym, the snake on your image is interesting (yellow & red line). About the yellow line, i saw a default MA line @babypips (with ZZ), is it similar to this yellow line ? And what is the logic for the red line ? Any clue is welcome ... thanks
Open High Low and the close,that the only info you need,and then of course timing the entries is crucial like CP indicated.There is a tool they use to time entries but l wont reveal it as it was not revealed to me but manged to get it by reading CP posts over and over again.
Watch me trade Live on YouTube
  • #1,882
  • Dec 10, 2017 12:03am Dec 10, 2017 12:03am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote}This is CP's edge imo... focusing on only one pair, focusing on only one Session, focusing on tick movements, gauging the force of movements and everything to do with movement (not levels or indicators or tools). You would have to be a fool to not get this right after few years of hard core experience watching charts. The REAL issue is not experience but the discipline this style of trading required of the trader.... to do this sh*t every freaking day. Not many can do this daily rut and that is why many fail in trading and those who survive...
That's the typical life of a scalper screen staring reading tick "momentum" for 4-5hrs per session 2sessions a day 5days a week attack with large lot size. Not worth the money really.
  • #1,883
  • Dec 10, 2017 12:14am Dec 10, 2017 12:14am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Just to add more flavor, this quote "ability of the trader to sense momentum on lower timeframes' is a pot of GOLD! once you have developed this skill then in reality, there is no need for any moving average or secret influx indicator ....
What are you talking about? "...ability to sense momentum...." that is emotion. market makers does not trade huge money based on emotions.
NO MATTER THE SITUATION,NEVER LET YOUR EMOTIONS OVERPOWER YOUR INTELLIGENCE
  • #1,884
  • Edited 2:12am Dec 10, 2017 1:39am | Edited 2:12am
What is your number?
Inserted Video


Quoting skyway
{quote} That's the typical life of a scalper screen staring reading tick "momentum" for 4-5hrs per session 2sessions a day 5days a week attack with large lot size. Not worth the money really.
And a Typical person's life is:
1-2hr commute/driving to and from work... sitting down.
4-5hrs watching Netflix, Home movies, TV, Youtube, online gaming or console etc... sitting down.
Everyday, all year round.

Everybody has their number... what is your number?
5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $10k a year ...not worth it for me
5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $25k a year ...not worth it for me
5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $50k a year ...not worth it for me
5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $100k a year ...not worth it for me
5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $200k a year
5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $500k a year
5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $1M a year (this is my category... would you prefer this or would you prefer commuting and watching netflix?)
5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $2M a year
5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $4M a year

Let's assume I talk shit and don't make the numbers I stated.
Let's assume:
5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $50k a year
I would still choose this scenario over 2hrs of commuting.
I would still choose this scenario over any other business that would only bring in 50k-200k per year.

But to each his own...
Everybody has their own number on what they are willing to work for

What is your number Skyway?
How much would you like to earn and how many hours are you willing to work for that number?

Quoting VEEFX
.... to do this sh*t every freaking day. Not many can do this daily rut and that is why many fail in trading and those who survive will surely have health issues with this style of trading. I know it because I have experienced it and realized this is no way to live a life.
1. If you are having health issue in any type of occupation, then you are going about it the wrong way. The only exception is if you work in a really polluted environment which you have no control off and affecting your health.
2. Where other people lose and fail... Other people will flourish and thrive in that same situation.
3. Your health issue is not related to trading... your health issue is caused because you don't look after yourself. Trading doesn't tell you to eat junk food... It doesn't tell you to not exercise... etc... Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Trading (insert any excuse here) is a good excuse for any health issue because, psychologically, you don't want to blame yourself.

What is your number VEEFX?
How much would you like to earn and how many hours are you willing to work for that number?
  • #1,885
  • Dec 10, 2017 2:07am Dec 10, 2017 2:07am
Quoting skyway
{quote} That's the typical life of a scalper screen staring reading tick "momentum" for 4-5hrs per session 2sessions a day 5days a week attack with large lot size. Not worth the money really.
OMG we must be a different kind of people..... I just dream about it...
  • #1,886
  • Edited 2:40am Dec 10, 2017 2:21am | Edited 2:40am
Quoting CrucialPoint
What is your number? ....5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $1M a year (this is my category... would you prefer this or would you prefer commuting and watching netflix?)... But to each his own... Everybody has their own number on what they are willing to work for ....
simple , need knowledge , patience, discipline for that or any other positive number otherwise will turn any number into negative.
some traders neglect themselves due to poor trading/ losses and then blame trading for it on any personal issue...like "2 minute man".
NO MATTER THE SITUATION,NEVER LET YOUR EMOTIONS OVERPOWER YOUR INTELLIGENCE
  • #1,887
  • Dec 10, 2017 2:32am Dec 10, 2017 2:32am
Anything below 200k a day on average, including the weekends. No screen time. Only bike time on trails and dirty roads. Ski time as well. Not to mention the lips time (both upper and lower lips), too. So, that is about 80M a year. Anything below would not be appreciated...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #1,888
  • Dec 10, 2017 2:33am Dec 10, 2017 2:33am
Quoting VEEFX
..... What is your number VEEFX? How much would you like to earn and how many hours are you willing to work for that number? My number is 3 times what I currently make so $250K/2080=$120*3=$360/hour or 2880/day or 300 pips/day on a $100K account size. I am willing to work 16 hours if that's what it takes to get me out of dealing with fuc*tards at work and travel the world but prefer 16 hours for my EA to work for me and I put in a hour or two each week and have 2 employees on my payrol to monitor my EA.
If your approach to trading is "ability of the trader to sense momentum on lower timeframes' is a pot of GOLD!" then how your EA respond to it since something
like "sense for momentum" is high frequency variable and reserved for humans?
NO MATTER THE SITUATION,NEVER LET YOUR EMOTIONS OVERPOWER YOUR INTELLIGENCE
  • #1,889
  • Edited 3:10am Dec 10, 2017 2:55am | Edited 3:10am
Quoting VEEFX
What you mentioned in the first two paragraphs sums up this entire thread. There are 100s of disciples trying to decipher this and you will probably get 100s of interpretations of what CP does LOL Just to add more flavor, this quote "ability of the trader to sense momentum on lower timeframes' is a pot of GOLD!
Glad I got it after a couple of hours of lurking this thread.

Quoting VEEFX
once you have developed this skill then in reality, there is no need for any moving average or secret influx indicator or spending years trying to find a 'higher' edge in a candle. This is the only reason why I prefer trading scheduled events. I can plan for it and come to the market with the expectation of momentum enabled price movements. Just experience the 'feeling' of price movement a couple of 100 times is more than enough to gauge the required strength I need to extract pips. You will then automatically know when a move is fake and when it...
Yes and no. I know very damn well that watching tick charts during London/NY sessions is definitely the fastest way for a trader to learn how to trade momentum; the best ability you could grasp is definitely to spot a strong move while it's happening, you can easly identify it by looking at how many times price data gets updated and how many times it chops between micro-ranges of prices. This observation can allow you to "predict" when price is about to be pushed in a direction because you can actually "sense" the accumulation or the breakouts.

How to sense price momentum on tick chart? Well, you just look at price. Before and during strong movements price becomes "nervous", it jumps up and down more frequently and when it moves in a certain direction you just dont need to look at the chart because you see the movement develop on price. Also, spread tend to go to zero during high liquidity moments.

Quoting VEEFX
This is CP's edge imo... focusing on only one pair, focusing on only one Session, focusing on tick movements, gauging the force of movements and everything to do with movement (not levels or indicators or tools). You would have to be a fool to not get this right after few years of hard core experience watching charts. The REAL issue is not experience but the discipline this style of trading required of the trader.... to do this sh*t every freaking day. Not many can do this daily rut and that is why many fail in trading and those who survive will...
This is one of the reasons why despite what I wrote above, it's still extremely difficult to squeeze consistent profit from such approach. First of all you need to stare at the charts with religious focus and godlike consistency (easier said than done). Second, price momentum is so fast you cannot wait 1 second (literal) to stop and think about what you're doing, YOU have to know exactly what you're doing and you cannot allow yourself any lagging. Third, you need a very low spread, true ECN, and automatic SL broker, because trade size is so small and price can fluctuate so much you need a hard SL (10 pips is ok) in case you get caught in a flash crash.

Fourth, and this is the biggest issue, you need to have near perfect entries. If your entries are accurate, most of the time exits are fairly easy: you will develop a sense for when momentum fade, and that is your exit point (this usually means 3-15 pips on majors). But entries, for all this to work, need to be perfect - i.e. you need to enter perfectly near the end of a pullback or, for reversal, you need to enter when price fades.

This is why its important to have a reference point: you know when your odds are in your favor (TREND!), and then, when you know the direction of price movement is up or down (careful: I didn't say trend, because you could thereotically take any upmoves in a downtrend and vice versa), you wait for price to exaust on pullbacks. That is where you get in. Is it easy? Damn no.

Entering when price fade is actually easier but riskier; it is a faster move and more immediate, but smaller in pips so you must be fast and accurate. Entering on a pullback when price is about to move from a reference point requires more accurancy but it is less risky because price movements are usually stronger and longer in terms of pips.
  • #1,890
  • Dec 10, 2017 3:43am Dec 10, 2017 3:43am
Just to crack some more "codes" for the noobs (please note this is my interpretation of CP lines and might be wrong):

When CP talks about higher edge in a single candlestick: He means price movements inside any given time period (even 1 min candles) possess the same characteristics of higher TF trends and price behaviour is foundamentally the same. It suggests that tick charts might be a better tool in analyzing price action because candlesticks are foundamentally tied to an arbitrary point of reference set in time. It also suggest that price movements on smaller TF might be easier to profit than higher TF movements because smaller movements are governed by impulsese that are easier to spot and follow.
That means your edge is in price action and price momentum, or in other words the tendency of price of moving in repetitive patterns, regardless of the candlesticks charts you want to represent price with. Therefore, there might be a higher edge inside a single candlestick because: A) price tend to move, and B) smaller price movements inside a candlestick (which is a reference in time) are somewhat easier to trade.

When CP talks about reference points: he means price will move away from any given level and will tend to develop trends (with pullbacks); the edge of course is in price making new highs and lows, allowing you to scalp those movements. If price were ranging most of the times you would be unable to scalp these movement with sufficient accurancy and profitability. A reference point is however needed, because it gives you a sense of movement, direction and also gives you an indication of what is the average movement you should expect from price during any given session. He specifically talks about 40 pips average range ruding London/NY session for cable.

When CP talks about not having indicators and even charts: he means price momentum is all you need, coupled with a starting reference point, which can be a MA or Open price, gives you the tools you need to follow the price as it moves. By looking at price changing one can develop the skill of knowing when strong movements are about to occur and when price is about to fade its movement. Strong movement occur, pushing price away from reference point = you enter the trade. In theory, is that simple. The reference point gives you direction, price behavious gives you the tools to know when to pull the trigger.
  • #1,891
  • Dec 10, 2017 3:51am Dec 10, 2017 3:51am
Quoting R3ta
Just to crack some more "codes" for the noobs (please note this is my interpretation of CP lines and might be wrong)
Here is my interpretation that I posted some hours ago ...
  • #1,892
  • Dec 10, 2017 4:00am Dec 10, 2017 4:00am
Take a look at this 5-seconds chart of cable during peak hours.

Where is your reference point?

Where would you pull the trigger?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: reference point 1.PNG Size: 110 KB
  • #1,893
  • Edited 7:48am Dec 10, 2017 4:06am | Edited 7:48am
Quoting skyway
{quote} That's the typical life of a scalper screen staring reading tick "momentum" for 4-5hrs per session 2sessions a day 5days a week attack with large lot size. Not worth the money really.
Typical life of a scalper can be anything he or she wants, it can be double at least what you say or it can be 1/5th or less.
However, once you have established a decent pot you do tend to put things into perspective and value time more wisely.

****************************************************************************************************

Not knocking the guys here who are running all kinds of sophisticated software measuring all kinds of everything and the guys trying to pry in persuit of an "EDGE" but you really are making more of this business than what it is.

The mechanic in most demand didn't develop his skills overnight, he likely didn't learn too much out of a book either apart from basic principles. Highly likely he gained most of his knowledge and skill by stripping and rebuilding countless engines, I would also say he/she also has an affinity with their chosen work.

Remember the fat kid at school that never got picked to be on the (Insert sport of choice) team ? He/she wanted to be on the team but didn't accept that he/she just wasn't cut out for it. Their affinity was elsewhere but just didn't realise it, maybe they were fine artist or musician or something. I've said it myself the words "Never Give Up" but the reality is there has to be a cut off point, I read/ hear about guys 8 and 10 years in still messing with cent accounts. That's fine if it's being classed as a hobby but you need to get real if you think it can develop. If the penny hasn't dropped by now, it's probably time to move on.

Regards

FU
  • #1,894
  • Dec 10, 2017 4:17am Dec 10, 2017 4:17am
Quoting CrucialPoint
5hr-8hrs / 5days a week
...of screen staring at tick momentum is your best number now. If and when you have a better alternative, this will become not worth to you then.
  • #1,895
  • Dec 10, 2017 6:25am Dec 10, 2017 6:25am
Quoting EfYou
{quote} Typical life of a scalper can be anything he or she wants, it can be double at least what you say or it can be 1/5th or less. However, once you have established a decent pot you do tend to put things into perspective and value time more wisely. **************************************************************************************************** Not knocking the guys here who are running all kinds of sophisticated software measuring all kinds of everything and the guys trying to pry in persuit of an "EDGE" but you really are making more of...
EfYou (interesting username btw ),

The comparison of various "real-world" disciplines to retail leveraged trading have been many; mechanic, surgeon, pilot, dentist, astronaut etc etc etc. I can understand why people make these comparisons because such disciplines are often associated with steep and long learning curves, which traders seemingly often then use to rationalise their own very steep and long learning curve. That said, I think there's a fundamental flaw in the comparison.

The "traditional" disciplines are founded upon stringent tools and curricula. As long as a mechanic-in-the-making has the intelligence, wherewithal and financial support to follow the path laid down before him, he's going to qualify as a mechanic. The same just doesn't apply to retail traders. There isn't an established curricula to becoming profitable, never has been, and in a world where traders can't even agree on a standard for what support and resistance is, it doesn't look like much will change soon.

In my six years of trading I came to realise that the wall we retail traders are up against is unlike any other most will find in most other disciplines - we have to be student, teacher and author of the curriculum we study. In the true sense of the word, I think there's something pioneering about that. And I believe this is takes the additional time. If I were only able to say one thing to someone just about to embark on the journey it would be to make sure you're financially prepared.
  • #1,896
  • Dec 10, 2017 7:09am Dec 10, 2017 7:09am
Quoting AntiCre
{quote} Here is my interpretation that I posted some hours ago ...
Thanks, I did not see that indicator before now.

He found a combination of indicators that effectively deliver reliable and precise signals on tick charts, which is essential as I stated before.

As far as I understood, he is trading this way:

1 - An MA envelopes are the hemisphere filters; with the envelope he filters out times of low volatility.
2 - He also probably take into account the major trend.
3 - With his indicator he's pinpointing entries and exits, the indicator seems to calculate momentum but I don't understand how it works.

A similar approach on the chart would be this:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: crucialpoint1.PNG Size: 124 KB
  • #1,897
  • Dec 10, 2017 7:22am Dec 10, 2017 7:22am
Quoting R3ta
1 - An MA envelopes are the hemisphere filters; with the envelope he filters out times of low volatility. 2 - He also probably take into account the major trend.
Although CP wrote that prize within the borders of the MA envelope mean a rangebound market (where it is not wise to trade), I've seen that he even entered the market in this situation. Thus, I'd bet that the buy/sell hemisphere is already established with the help of the momentum lines. However, maybe CP still uses MAs/MA envelopes to determine the overall (longer-term trend) (although it could be done with the less reactive lines in his influx indicator).

BTW: The problem with your approach (using 3 MAs) is the exit. Every cross of the prize above the blue line could mean the end of the trend. Thus, it would suggest to always close the trade if the market went above the blue line. But this way you'll collect a lot of loser due to spread.
  • #1,898
  • Dec 10, 2017 7:22am Dec 10, 2017 7:22am
More...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: crucialpoint2.PNG Size: 142 KB
  • #1,899
  • Dec 10, 2017 7:47am Dec 10, 2017 7:47am
Quoting simond2002
{quote} EfYou (interesting username btw ), The comparison of various "real-world" disciplines to retail leveraged trading have been many; mechanic, surgeon, pilot, dentist, astronaut etc etc etc. I can understand why people make these comparisons because such disciplines are often associated with steep and long learning curves, which traders seemingly often then use to rationalise their own very steep and long learning curve. That said, I think there's a fundamental flaw in the comparison. The "traditional" disciplines are founded upon...
Hi Simon

I didn't really make the comparison because of any association it was more to highlight that mechanic probably learnt a hell of a lot more through "discovery" and by that I mean getting hands on. His study material the engine. Our study material the chart. Let's be honest there are mechanics and there are mechanics.... ahem !
I do understand your point however in that trading does not have an established curriculum and all will be fine and dandy if you study certain material, that is clearly not the case but the wall you say most are up against and the length of the curve are self imposed. Too many use valuable time hunting down successful traders to copy from or trying multiple systems when really they just need to observe the charts and with a little nous something should come to mind on how you can get your share. That is why I also say there has to be some affinity or natural ability as I don't understand how so many don't realise sooner that it's not for them. As a youngster I really wanted to be a pianist, 50 + years on I can very clumsily play few tunes but I wasn't deluded in the early days when I just couldn't get to grips with it, so I moved on. I just think it's horses for courses and so many go through so much pain in this (trading) particular pursuit without the realisation that it just isn't for them.

Agree with this fully "student, teacher and author of the curriculum we study"

I realise the OP has long gone from here but have veered off topic.

Regards

FU
  • #1,900
  • Dec 10, 2017 8:45am Dec 10, 2017 8:45am
Quoting CrucialPoint
What is your number? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VsZr5KGNGM {quote} And a Typical person's life is: 1-2hr commute/driving to and from work... sitting down. 4-5hrs watching Netflix, Home movies, TV, Youtube, online gaming or console etc... sitting down. Everyday, all year round. Everybody has their number... what is your number? 5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $10k a year ...not worth it for me 5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $25k a year ...not worth it for me 5hr-8hrs / 5days a week = $50k a year ...not worth it for me 5hr-8hrs /...
This number depends wildly on where you live, and what you think luxury is. What is my number? I don't have one, because I truly like what I do. I could easily sit in front of a terminal always. The markets are so very amazing!
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
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