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The next step after reaching broker lot size limit

  • #241
  • Dec 3, 2017 11:50am Dec 3, 2017 11:50am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Nope... i don't care about their accounts, don't need access, don't care about their individual trade or account performance etc. Every measure will be driven from my own live and audited trading performance and billed accordingly. I have ZERO interest in managing money or giving trade advice or mentor or train or whatever. You have access to my signals (and live trading stats as evidence) and that's the end of it. They pay for the "information" I provide. This is required as I would have (and don't want to have) no control over their actions,...
yes, but how you will get a performance fee with this setup, how you measure the performance of the account when you dont know what signals and what trading amount was used?
you will do: calculate all to a fictive 10.000 usd account and calculate with your entries, exists? but when entries are inside a biggger faster move (or exists) there can be extrem differences, even so high that some have loss and no win... not to speak about any broker differences.
  • #242
  • Dec 3, 2017 11:58am Dec 3, 2017 11:58am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Every subscriber will continue to have $10K of starting and ending balance for each month regardless of my signals or their account balance/performance (as a signup Terms of service agreement. All performance stats are tagged with my live account. All accounting is based on my live account (for transparency). If my live account is in profit, it will come with a 20% of 10K performance fee. end of story :-)
then hold this live account with 10000 at starting month and transfer money in or out end of month to have this balance.
and be carefully with some trading styles. news trading and times of fast moves, trading in times of very low liquity or high spreads can produce extrem differnet results in signal services for the clients.
  • #243
  • Dec 3, 2017 12:05pm Dec 3, 2017 12:05pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Nope (again:-). Why would I limit my own trading performance. I will withdraw only once a year at year end to pay taxes and assess my income for next year (as in the screenshot). I have always relied on my own abilities. keeping the live trading account to 10K means I am now relying on subscription fee and performance fee to feed my family.... not going to happen !
why?
you have one account for your clients to show performance. you can have more accounts for you private. so i dont understand the fact of the "limit". its only transfering to an other account or from an other to hold one account at 10.000 so clients can see it more easy.
  • #244
  • Dec 3, 2017 12:12pm Dec 3, 2017 12:12pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} This is required to gain CREDIBILITY in the market place. Walk the walk and talk the talk... here's what I can do first and foremost with facts and data to support my claim. This is a TRANSPARENCY REQUIREMENT. Also, there will be a public certified statement from my broker that there is no affiliate or rebate or other kinds of monkey business involved. (I have to think about this as I don't want to be publishing my broker on my website... that's operating in SCAM territory. Also independant audit report will have no mention of broker on...
there are many problems:

- even audit reports can be faked easy
- all your results only are important after the day you tell people the account and they can look in, before all results are total 100% unimportant because can be fake all the time, with or without any audit. i can fake many thousend percents very easy in accounts and get from anyone best audit, because its real wins, but having same losses in other accounts noone is seeing.
- its still all to easy to fake, only unfakeable is from the day the account number and investlogin is published. before this day all results are total useless and 100% easy to fake, and will be most of the time faked.

i am back in 2 hours.
  • #245
  • Dec 3, 2017 12:27pm Dec 3, 2017 12:27pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} there are many problems: - even audit reports can be faked easy - all your results only are important after the day you tell people the account and they can look in, before all results are total 100% unimportant because can be fake all the time, with or without any audit. i can fake many thousend percents very easy in accounts and get from anyone best audit, because its real wins, but having same losses in other accounts noone is seeing. - its still all to easy to fake, only unfakeable is from the day the account number and investlogin is...

Wow my friend that is shocking.

Do you think there are ANY signal service that is real ?
  • #246
  • Edited 3:16pm Dec 3, 2017 2:01pm | Edited 3:16pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Okay. Now I see Dukas point. I can have a 'published' live account and another hidden live account that is hedged for downside protection or whatever. He is right. That can and will happen. So how do we solve the transparency issue here? I thought closing ALL trades at the end of accounting period would solve this. Interesting dilemma... A signal provider could fund profits from his service into the hidden live account and keep profits growing in his public live account. You got me Dukas. I am out of ideas how to address this :-( Having...
you can over 3 years, if you only want show around 300-1000% wins and open many accounts after this 3 years. but you cant after the time you showed account number and verify it later! if you want trade not so often each year then 3000% win after this 3 years is easy possible to fake by opening many accounts like i posted in your first "question " posting as answer. its only a very simple math problem how you do it.

thats always the key point. after you have shown account number, (after this you cant fake having wins in other accounts and have hedge trades in many others...) then the counting starts, all what are results before can be fake in many kinds (of course no fake or own whitelabel broker using, thats then another fake what many do).
so from this date, when you publish the account number, from this date the results will be possible to audit by your companies mentioned. all results before this date you can ignore completly, because will not prove anything. thatswhy only beginners would try to prove with an account or more stupid pictures from account, that they can trade. they are most of the time faker and not better then average in best, most of the time bad. at least they are not very experienced in many kinds.
  • #247
  • Dec 3, 2017 2:06pm Dec 3, 2017 2:06pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Here's one way possible. In the attached plan, 3 yrs of profitability before I start my "hypothetical" signal service, I will have to file tax returns every year. The auditing firm as pull in transcripts from IRS (upon by authorization) and validate that this live account was the only FX income I had for the past 3 yrs. New subscribers can get this before signing up as part of compliance documentation. That should suffice as every mortgage loan provider in USA requires to pull in tax transcripts for past two yrs before they can approve a...
will not work!
you can have other accounts (for hedging) by friends, family members, over companies (trusted or own...),.. it will not proof anything. faking its really to easy, thats why near 95% fail into this shit. even when you see very easy its fake, still 95% fail into this, and even after you tell people and show them the fake, 80% still believe in this,... if someone dont have learned basics of trading he can often not see the fake or better, he cant accept this is a fake, he cant easy see difference between reality and fantasy. and when 5% have learned this basics, i think its a fair number, i would even say its much less in forums. many dont want to learn, they want hear how easy their dreams to be a millionaere is going.
  • #248
  • Dec 3, 2017 2:14pm Dec 3, 2017 2:14pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Got it. Thanks. I am never excited with simulations, what-if scenarios or hypothetical/mathematical spreadsheets unless it is based on my own trade history. Sorry/ This cannot be holy grail because it is impossible to predict that next trade will be in profit or loss let alone 2 in two consecutive profits or SL-TP-TP-SL-TP-TP etc because R:R=1. (if I fully understand what you are saying, if not, kindly explain)
No, we in here are talking about 0,66 winning rate only.
  • #249
  • Edited 5:32pm Dec 3, 2017 4:22pm | Edited 5:32pm
Quoting goose4
{quote} Wow my friend that is shocking. Do you think there are ANY signal service that is real ?
maybe some who use real accounts same time. but never signal services are from smart people (when good in win by trading), thats not possible, because with managing account you would earn much more. only when you know you cant trade good, or trade very risky martingale or without SL, or need to fake many things,........ and and and... then signal providers are the way to go, most easy to fake wins, get money even when losing,..... . as indicator, when someone mentions pips won each month then run as fast as you can, this person is always a beginner or bigger loser or faker. if someone dont have live accounts and cant show (of course this all can be faked extrem easy too ) then run away, he use signal service to fake bigger wins,...... and and and... signal services are such a big scam topic, you can write a book about.

when you learn trading basics, you see very fast when someone cheats or try to fake. maybe some dont fake and are only very stupid (thats best case), but trading with someone stupid is also not best way, or? also try to think logic with arguemnts and you can avoid many shit and fraud, same with coaches, you can say 99,99% are bullshit and big scam.
  • #250
  • Dec 3, 2017 5:34pm Dec 3, 2017 5:34pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} So this is not a Spot FX issue. This could happen across all tradeable markets and it will rule out 100% of all signal providers across all markets. This could also span across hedge funds and mutual funds trading OPM. What i have is a pretty decent proposal :-)
yes all can be faked in any market (there is no difference, of course by higher cost it starts getting more difficult by some methods, but faking is possible in many kind) when you show past things, it can be only true by audit from the date you show the account number and never change it, ignore any trades before or faking is most easy possible in any kind.
  • #251
  • Dec 3, 2017 5:38pm Dec 3, 2017 5:38pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Right. During the "trial" period when no subscription is charged, subscriber will have access to my 3yr+ public live account via MT4's investor account or whatever means to verify trade history + after paid subscription, subscriber will continue to have access to the same account number for 24-48 hours past the month end accounting period to run their own audits etc. As long as the public live account number details is shared and all trades closed at the end of accounting period, I cannot think of any other way a scam is possible. I think...
but your 3 years history can be faked very easy. only after you made the account number public it cant be faked later.
look as extrem bad example in this thread: https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...8#post10555888
this cheater tell the people from getting minimum 100% guarantee win each month and shows this in demo account. and how he is doing it? he simple opens any starting month many new demo account and trades all different (different settings for experts advisors or different directions) and post on the end of the month (or some times in the month) the best of this accounts and hide all others (so 100% is so easy to do). so many doing this faking shit.

when you publishing after the 3 years your results its complete waste of time and worthless because all can be faked so easy.
you can make a trial period over the first year, then maybe people trust you, at least when they can look inside the account, you dont trade without SL or dont use martingale or other trading paths with extrem high risk. results are only worth after the point you can look inside the account (all before 100% useless) and only when you see how the profits is reached (as example :100% win by trading without SL is not difficult from time to time, but you can lose any hours or day your whole account by this...). so this 2 facts are neccessary to avoid fakes.
  • #252
  • Dec 3, 2017 5:57pm Dec 3, 2017 5:57pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Yeah..I don't see any other solution here except to publicly publish the trade results in real time for 3 yrs to the entire world and then open the door to subscribers. I doubt anyone would do that at step1 :-
this would be only way, but because 95% of the people are stupid , the other ways are only done!
when you do this way , all other signal services cash out from the stupid followers same time the money and you are the honest man with no followers.

thats the problem in the world, people want to be faked and cheated.

2 examples:
look at mq5 market, the best systems there are with biggest wins the martingale systems, often without any sl, other signal providers dont have a chance to get this wins, but any of this martingale can lose any money on fast time, but people dont see or cant see it, they simple see only "what you can win" and not " what you can lose ".

look at the poeple in this forum. the biggest fakers/scammers have often the most followers and subscribers. people want really be scammed, they dont want hear " you need to learn basics step by step and will get rich later by this", they want hear "hey, this method is super simple, i got rich with it , but i will that you also get rich by it, so follow me, i am so nice guy , i help you for only little money and you will be millionaere in very fast time". many people will never come to a point, they can judge themself correct and so will be fall in this shit again and again. i have seen people with many many followers writing biggest bullshit with zero math knowledge, totally wrong things, but people still loved them for teaching them this crazy shit. its here like in real world, 95% are lost with themself, some can change their live, but most have the problem they will never see this fact and cant judge this correct and thatswhy cant change anything.
but endless story, its just a funny fact. most is impossible to help.
long words, short story: when you are not honest and fake people how they can live their dreams and be nice always, you can write biggest bullshit same time, people will like you more then you will teach them correct things and show the extrem mistakes people do or even misleading with purpose and when you destroy peoples dream by telling them the reality. reality is not what 95% of the people looking for, they looking for dreams, and only faker/cheaters can fill this part and look like they can fill the dreams. it would needed a brainwash from starting for many of this people to forget so many bullshit they have as fantasy about trading or learned wrong and they start learning things correct step by step. nothing can cost you more lifetime and money then living in a fantasy world and dont check the reality around.
  • #253
  • Dec 3, 2017 6:09pm Dec 3, 2017 6:09pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Good points. Hopefully, our readers learnt a thing to two from our interaction. I will delete my posts soon before I am labelled a scammer :-)
why deleting. you did say you dont offer anything and still trying to reach some points? and even then you want do it correct way by showing account? so deleting is not neccessary. you can always stand to your points.
  • #254
  • Dec 3, 2017 6:21pm Dec 3, 2017 6:21pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} This was all a hypothetical discussion for Mr Goose. I think we have changed his opinion on signal providers
dont delete,i delete never anything. all i did say i stand behind and i have reasons to say so.
so you too, so let your words speak for yourself.

i dont think that we both care about any followers here, if we would, we would write so nice and unhonest like most of the faker/cheater here and would not show reality, we would show the dreams. with you is nice to speak, many dont have arguments and its often so crazy to discuss without arguments. you bring arguments and arguments, other only attack and send some pictures and videos because they cant say anything against and the cycle of useless posts starts.
  • #255
  • Dec 3, 2017 6:29pm Dec 3, 2017 6:29pm
Quoting BigOldFella
{quote} I did know, cheers, but where's the fun in that.
Ok, but I was interested in the topic of the thread, before it got off the rails. Right now, I am trading 12 accounts across 3 brokers, and use a cool software tool to help me manage trades across these accounts. Two accounts are reserved for long-term trades (open for more than a few weeks), and 10 that are dedicated to short term trades. The guys in my trading group use a variety of brokers, but some of them are trading very large accounts. Was hoping for a focused discussion on this topic, but apparently two guys are exchanging hand jobs while droning on about non-thread topics (at least imho). Good trading BidOldFella!
  • #256
  • Dec 3, 2017 6:29pm Dec 3, 2017 6:29pm
Quoting skyway
That's why the only way to know if a trader is good at trading the markets is to watch him trade live markets. Past results whether they are audited or not count for nothing.
thats possible, but you need 6-12 months to watch this and get a fair picture, and thats SL are set and and and. but you are correct, this will be a fair value then to judge the trader. but who has the time to watch any trade he does, not only some he posts.
so its also good possible by account audited, but only after first the acocunt number and all is fixed and audited from start, then from this time results are counting, never ever before. so its more time saving then looking at the trader all the time.

if you are a company/bank/trust, fund... and want someone trades for you, then you are correct, you need to see how he acts at the computer, how he act with the pressure by trading big millions accounts and having big numbers win/loss and so on.... thats a point you only see live (also if he has psychologic problems or drog problems.... and so on....).
  • #257
  • Edited 6:46pm Dec 3, 2017 6:33pm | Edited 6:46pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} Ok, but I was interested in the topic of the thread, before it got off the rails. Right now, I am trading 12 accounts across 3 brokers, and use a cool software tool to help me manage trades across these accounts. Two accounts are reserved for long-term trades (open for more than a few weeks), and 10 that are dedicated to short term trades. The guys in my trading group use a variety of brokers, but some of them are trading very large accounts. Was hoping for a focused discussion on this topic, but apparently two guys are exchanging hand jobs...
can you describe it more ? because very large is different for any person (and so the answers will be different), for me very large starts with 100-200 mio, maybe its different for you.
and why you use many brokers and not one prime brokerage and get so much less commission, at least for the 10 intraday trading accounts? this will increase wins with reducing the costs by some 10k each month very easy over the time.

its many years ago i did see people with very big account in trading groups or in copy account services. its normally both for "beginners" (or maybe until you get some capital) until you find your way (group) or smarter solutions (copying).
so what are the reasons to hold on copying and on group? just asking, not saying its not good because i dont know your situation.
  • #258
  • Dec 3, 2017 6:44pm Dec 3, 2017 6:44pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} I delete for several reasons: Avoid appearing Mr. Know-It-All. Far from being the truth Avoid attracting followers and follow-on interactions, PMs etc and most important of all, I have done my job of conveying my message to the person or thread it was directed towards. What they do with the information shared is their business. Deleting de-clutters my mind, it frees my mind into thinking what others are continuing to say about what I have posted and seeing someone respond to my post via my profile continues to cause distraction and curiosity....
i dont think anyone thinks someone is mr "know it all". you can have seen near all over your trading years , but then something new happens and then your informations are again new like for all. so dont look at how people can see you, thats their problem and you cant change this fact by whatever you do. and time is important, if you look how other look at you, its wastes a lot of time.
and nobody is always correct, thats why exchanging arguments is the best you can do in forums.
  • #259
  • Dec 3, 2017 6:51pm Dec 3, 2017 6:51pm
Quoting skyway
Trading large accounts is never a measure of the traders ability to trade. There are plenty of large account traders(above US$100,000) who are novice in this business.
thats for sure, you take 10 million and put in one account. so you trade a 10 mio accounts, but dont says anything about if its a good trader.
its important how this money in this account is done, buy selling signals, by get money from group, managing, or by own wins with own money.
and of course then this wins can be faked too.
  • #260
  • Dec 3, 2017 6:59pm Dec 3, 2017 6:59pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} true story I will share. This is in my first year of trading FX in 2006. Tried FXCM, IBFX and after a few blown accounts, I made some 80% in a month. I thought I got this sh*t in the bag. Moved to Interactive Brokers like a big dawg all pumped up thinking I am take FX by storm without demo trading their TWS platform. My first trade was a short USDJPY 10 standard lots on a $25K account. It went instantaneous into profit and started seeing over 5 digit floating profit. I literally thought I had made over 100K USD in profits. Soon I find out...
trading stations are different, and interactive is more complicated then many others.
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