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Trade Volume (of a trader)

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 30, 2017 11:53am Oct 30, 2017 11:53am
What is your trade volume guys? Monthly, annual?
Can you afford to take that chance?
  • #2
  • Oct 30, 2017 2:25pm Oct 30, 2017 2:25pm
I'm using a small account, but I have a large leverage on it. I guess that technically increases my volume, so the question of volume becomes somewhat irrelevant for my trades.
  • #3
  • Oct 30, 2017 2:59pm Oct 30, 2017 2:59pm
Quoting DeepChill
I'm using a small account, but I have a large leverage on it. I guess that technically increases my volume, so the question of volume becomes somewhat irrelevant for my trades.
Not to me, would like to know approx. volume (with levarage of course)
Can you afford to take that chance?
  • #4
  • Nov 1, 2017 2:23am Nov 1, 2017 2:23am
Quoting auricforecas
What is your trade volume guys? Monthly, annual?
10$ lots! Although, I started my live trading from .50$ but gradually I have increased it according to my live performances! By the way, I usually I use this trading lots (10$ in every single trade).
  • #5
  • Nov 1, 2017 2:52am Nov 1, 2017 2:52am
Quoting NeilWagner
{quote} 10$ lots! Although, I started my live trading from .50$ but gradually I have increased it according to my live performances! By the way, I usually I use this trading lots (10$ in every single trade).
and yet you still need to learn to read and comprehend what trading volume means
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #6
  • Nov 1, 2017 6:38am Nov 1, 2017 6:38am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} and yet you still need to learn to read and comprehend what trading volume means
Trade volume example:

You open 100EUR trade at 100:1 leverage so you are opening the position in the size of 100EUR*100 = 10,000EUR (ten thousand euro) and if you do so 10 times in a month, your volume for that month would be 100,000EUR (hundred thousand euro), or twice as that if you count open and close separately...

Don't you have "Account statistics" where you can see Trade Volume and (Profit&Loss - don't need those).

What is your trade volume guys, monthly, annually? Is it in milions, sub 100k, over 10m, 100m? They seem to be large numbers but you can get millions of trade volume rather fast if you trade a lot, leveraged etc..
Can you afford to take that chance?
  • #7
  • Nov 1, 2017 6:45am Nov 1, 2017 6:45am
Quoting auricforecas
{quote} Trade volume example: You open 100EUR trade at 100:1 leverage so you are opening the position in the size of 100EUR*100 = 10,000EUR (ten thousand euro) and if you do so 10 times in a month, your volume for that month would be 100,000EUR (hundred thousand euro), or twice as that if you count open and close separately... Don't you have "Account statistics" where you can see Trade Volume and (Profit&Loss - don't need those). What is your trade volume guys, monthly, annually? Is it in milions, sub 100k, over 10m, 100m? They seem to be large...
why this number is important? its only important for getting better prices of commissions from your broker, more you cant do with this number. as additional with some brokers you get some vip service numbers and assistence and broker will help you to get all api questions and trading problems solved very fast, or you get some better prices in other trading products, but commission rate will have most heavy influence with a much higher turnover.

with higher account equity and trading many short term trades per day you can get very fast billions turnover per month. but why to compare this numbers? strategies and account sizes and trade frequency are different, so is trading volume.

and yes, the trading volume will be count double, open and close is added seperate.
  • #8
  • Nov 1, 2017 6:54am Nov 1, 2017 6:54am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} why this number is important? its only important for getting better prices of commissions from your broker, more you cant do with this number. with higher account equity and trading many short term trades per day you can get very fast billions turnover per month. but why to compare this numbers? strategies and account sizes and trade frequency are different, so is trading volume.
Because I believe there is a difference if someone has a return of let's say 20% annual return and has only done a few trades, number of trades might not represent something since there could be many very small ones and a few larger, might be just lucky..

For example... someone can give 10k x100leverage (1mio size/volume or 2mio open+close) and make 20% return in a single trade and claim he outperformed major players in the market, let alone traderes (I hope we all know what the profitability rate is, above ZERO, let alone above 20%)... Even number of trades might not mean anything because after above example, he can just make 100 or 1000 1unit trades, (yes some brokers allow to open trades with just 1EUR/USD or less). But if someone would have the same return, with the same initial account (10k), and 100mio+ volume, it would give me a different picture, wouldn't you agree?
Can you afford to take that chance?
  • #9
  • Nov 1, 2017 6:55am Nov 1, 2017 6:55am
as Dukas said, meaningless info really.

just say that my broker gives a free VPS to those who trade 15 lot volume or more in a month. ( i do qualify for the free VPS)
broker also gives free access to his EA lab to those who trade 20 lot or more volume in a month ( i do qualify for the free access).

beyond that, why would things really matter, and particularly matter to you?
the only importance for you your own volume should be, and even that is to bargain for reduced commission, or like those above mentioned perks.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #10
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:06am Nov 1, 2017 7:06am
Quoting auricforecas
{quote} Because I believe there is a difference if someone has a return of let's say 20% annual return and has only done a few trades, number of trades might not represent something since there could be many very small ones and a few larger, might be just lucky.. For example... someone can give 10k x100leverage (1mio size/volume or 2mio open+close) and make 20% return in a single trade and claim he outperformed major players in the market, let alone traderes (I hope we all know what the profitability rate is, above ZERO, let alone above 20%)......
what you talk about is longterm investment vs daytrading. withdaytrading you need much m,ore experience and basicknowledge, but can get more stable returns with lower drawdowns. with investment you need much less time , but have higher risks but sometimes also higher returns.
this are of course different trading ways. so turnober only tell you, if someone trades more often or less often, but you can simple looks at how many trades he is doing, this number is much more important to see this fact, then turnover. because of different risk per trade you can have with high risk and less trades much more turnover then someone with less risk per trade and much more trades.

but hold it simple:

only 3 things are important for judge an account:
- win in money
- max drawdown
- an equity curve

with this 3 you can compare the account., but you cant compare the trader. this you need to learn as very important basic thing.
its impossible to judge any trader by his account. only when you know all the money (all values to market prices) someone has from start of year and end of year, then you can compare a trader with an other. because most of time you only see an account, it tells exactly zero information, because the trade can have 3 account with extrem loss and has no wins on the end or opposite. and when someone has 1 mio in real estates and a 10.000 account and won with this account 20.000 by 8.000 drawdown, its just fine result for this account , if he has no money without the 10.000 in account , it would be a very risky result with much less worth for longterm.

so to compare trader you need to know win in money, max drawdown and equity curve over all his values in the year.

thatswhy the gurus and people with TE and so on are most of time complete useless, because you dont know what you really see here. its to less information to compare a trader, and only comparing account is what beginners do, extrem statistical stupid thing, because nothing is more easy then show an extrem win in some accounts, when i have many more accounts to use on other sides to compensate losses. but faking is even much more easy..... but thats complete other topic.
  • #11
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:08am Nov 1, 2017 7:08am
Quoting profitfarmer
as Dukas said, meaningless info really. just say that my broker gives a free VPS to those who trade 15 lot volume or more in a month. ( i do qualify for the free VPS) broker also gives free access to his EA lab to those who trade 20 lot or more volume in a month ( i do qualify for the free access). beyond that, why would things really matter, and particularly matter to you? the only importance for you your own volume should be, and even that is to bargain for reduced commission, or like those above mentioned perks.
I just replied a minute before your post. It does have meaning for me and so it does for the brokers... If someone can say, fine, if not...
I explain a little already, but volume is important, I must say that. And you mentioned perks for one thing but that was not mine direct interest.

Another example if someone would have ridiculous volume and would have even around 0% return.. I would be interested to look more closely...

But again, this thread was not opened to discuss WHY it is important if it is at all... but to get one idea what your trade volumes are since I don't see that info in stats... at least a ballpark... 100k, 10m, 100m, 1B+...
Can you afford to take that chance?
  • #12
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:11am Nov 1, 2017 7:11am
Quoting auricforecas
{quote} I just replied a minute before your post. It does have meaning for me and so it does for the brokers... If someone can say, fine, if not... I explain a little already, but volume is important, I must say that. And you mentioned perks for one thing but that was not mine direct interest. Another example if someone would have ridiculous volume and would have even around 0% return.. I would be interested to look more closely... But again, this thread was not opened to discuss WHY it is important if it is at all... but to get one idea what your...
so it looks like you are interested in the strategy, because you have lower commission and spread maybe and want compare his strategy with your own broker? but only will be usefull when he has many turnover, or the cost advantage will not come to support it.
  • #13
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:18am Nov 1, 2017 7:18am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} what you talk about is longterm investment vs daytrading. withdaytrading you need much m,ore experience and basicknowledge, but can get more stable returns with lower drawdowns. with investment you need much less time , but have higher risks but sometimes also higher returns. this are of course different trading ways.
Dukas, I get what you're saying, but you see, you know (said/wrote it yourself) volume is a function of something, some data can be seen from it. And the 3 parameters you mentioned, how do you factor out luck, trendsurfing etc? I have seen amazing accounts that were flushed in the longrun... I believe it's much different making billions volume than millions, all things being equal (10k input). You mentioned yourself, higher volumes are more likely daytrading, more experience and basic knowledge.. and if still profitable... on the other hand you can have someone placing 1trade, longterm investment if you will... had just luck and would have same or higher return, strong equity curve and 0% drawdown... I hope you get what I said otherwise disregard this post or even thread.
Can you afford to take that chance?
  • #14
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:23am Nov 1, 2017 7:23am
Quoting auricforecas
{quote} Dukas, I get what you're saying, but you see, you know (said/wrote it yourself) volume is a function of something, some data can be seen from it. And the 3 parameters you mentioned, how do you factor out luck, trendsurfing etc? I have seen amazing accounts that were flushed in the longrun... I believe it's much different making billions volume than millions, all things being equal (10k input). You mentioned yourself, higher volumes are more likely daytrading, more experience and basic knowledge.. and if still profitable... on the other hand...
of course for investment you need much more luck then for daytrading, because of the number of trades.
of course you need to see how someone trades. if he trades martingale or use no SL, then of course the trades are near worthless or the wins can be gone next days. if you have always in a fixed SL (no far away and no martingale all the time) then you can judge the system more easy after many trades.
  • #15
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:27am Nov 1, 2017 7:27am
Quoting auricforecas
{quote} Because I believe there is a difference if someone has a return of let's say 20% annual return and has only done a few trades, number of trades might not represent something since there could be many very small ones and a few larger, might be just lucky.. For example... someone can give 10k x100leverage (1mio size/volume or 2mio open+close) and make 20% return in a single trade and claim he outperformed major players in the market, let alone traderes (I hope we all know what the profitability rate is, above ZERO, let alone above 20%)......
if one is purely trading his own money, then let them claim whatever they want.
but in the fx management industry, no one will ever put money with a person whom over leverages and has few trades given the volatility. period.

imo, to each his own. if u can make 20% pa consistantly just by 10-20 trades/year over a period of 10 years. kudos to you. u have mastered the art of cherry picking.
if u can make 20% pa consistantly with thousands of positions, kudos to you too, u have mastered the art of "throwing everything at the ceiling and seeing what sticks"
  • #16
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:30am Nov 1, 2017 7:30am
Quoting Bicarus
{quote}if u can make 20% pa consistantly with thousands of positions, kudos to you too, u have mastered the art of "throwing everything at the ceiling and seeing what sticks"
I agree, you factored out volume completely in those 2 fine examples and I agree But I might add the max drawdown, would be how much, 10%? In both cases, in the fx management's industry perspective...
Can you afford to take that chance?
  • #17
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:39am Nov 1, 2017 7:39am
Quoting auricforecas
{quote} I just replied a minute before your post. It does have meaning for me and so it does for the brokers... If someone can say, fine, if not... I explain a little already, but volume is important, I must say that. And you mentioned perks for one thing but that was not mine direct interest. Another example if someone would have ridiculous volume and would have even around 0% return.. I would be interested to look more closely... But again, this thread was not opened to discuss WHY it is important if it is at all... but to get one idea what your...
the acct in my profile traded 64 lots last month...
6.4 million $...leverage 500:1...max working drawdown was approx 5% ( dont carry trades, thus no real drawdown eod, there was zero losing day last month)
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #18
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:43am Nov 1, 2017 7:43am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} the acct in my profile traded 64 lots last month... 6.4 million $...leverage 500:1...max working drawdown was approx 5% ( dont carry trades, thus no real drawdown eod, there was zero losing day last month)
Thanks, much appreciated. Must add, impressive leverage
Can you afford to take that chance?
  • #19
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:53am Nov 1, 2017 7:53am
Quoting auricforecas
{quote} Thanks, much appreciated. Must add, impressive leverage
i dont use it, but that is what set.
the effective leverage stays bellow 50:1, at most.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #20
  • Nov 1, 2017 7:58am Nov 1, 2017 7:58am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} i dont use it, but that is what set. the effective leverage stays bellow 50:1, at most.
Much more reasonable. Speaking of.. Should you pull that kind of volume at 500:1 that would tell me something... You have to be skilled as a wizard to play with 500:1, higher the volume at that leverage, the more truth to this in my book.
Can you afford to take that chance?
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