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  • #10,921
  • Oct 28, 2017 1:21am Oct 28, 2017 1:21am
I'll have to think abt this one for awhile.

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In detegere possumus omnes mortui sunt
  • #10,922
  • Oct 28, 2017 1:23am Oct 28, 2017 1:23am
Quoting Gamod
I'll have to think abt this one for awhile. {image}
Why do libtard women tend to be so fugly?
  • #10,923
  • Oct 28, 2017 4:44am Oct 28, 2017 4:44am
Tin foil hat test
If you think the following statements are true you are not a tin foil hatter.

WTC 7 collapsed into its own footprint due to fire.
Oswald killed JFK, alone, with a magic bullet.
Saddam had WMD’s
Fort Knox has 8000 tons of unencumbered gold
We really did land on the moon
A jet airliner crashed into the Pentagon
Seal team 6 killed OBL
15 - 6 = 9
Mankind is responsible for global warming
Global warming is even a problem
Electric cars, LED bulbs and windmills will save the planet
Feminists are attractive and sexy
Russia fixed the election for Trump
The EU is a democracy

If you think they are false the men in white coats will probably be coming to get you soon.

Theres probably loads more – feel free to add.
In detegere possumus omnes mortui sunt
  • #10,924
  • Oct 28, 2017 5:21am Oct 28, 2017 5:21am
Quoting Gamod
Tin foil hat test If you think the following statements are true you are not a tin foil hatter. WTC 7 collapsed into its own footprint due to fire. Oswald killed JFK, alone, with a magic bullet. Saddam had WMD’s Fort Knox has 8000 tons of unencumbered gold We really did land on the moon A jet airliner crashed into the Pentagon Seal team 6 killed OBL 15 - 6 = 9 Mankind is responsible for global warming Global warming is even a problem Electric cars, LED bulbs and windmills will save the planet Feminists are attractive and sexy Russia fixed the election...
i see your tin foil hat and i will rise it to a top hat tin foil hat

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your move
  • #10,925
  • Oct 28, 2017 5:22am Oct 28, 2017 5:22am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Why do libtard women tend to be so fugly?
Just take a long look of the lib women in our congress. Not only are they fugly, they are dumb as a "bucket of hair" as Gregg Jarrett recently noted on Fox News.
Defending Truth, Capitalism and the US Constitution
  • #10,926
  • Oct 28, 2017 6:14am Oct 28, 2017 6:14am
Quoting jarhead
{quote} Just take a long look of the lib women in our congress. Not only are they fugly, they are dumb as a "bucket of hair" as Gregg Jarrett recently noted on Fox News.
Angry and bitter that they are hard done by.... whoops so they are, in looks, brains and men, so they choose other fugly women instead.
  • #10,927
  • Oct 28, 2017 6:24am Oct 28, 2017 6:24am
I am starting to forgive Gove. This is funny and funnier still as the libs are having massive fits over it:

"The cabinet minister told the presenter: 'Sometimes I think coming into the studio with you John is a bit like going into Harvey Weinstein’s bedroom – you hope to emerge with your dignity intact.'"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5026485/Michael-Gove-blasted-Weinstein-joke-Radio-4.html
  • #10,928
  • Edited 8:12am Oct 28, 2017 6:38am | Edited 8:12am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} The US I don't think did what has done to Germany at any point after WWII. I could be wrong, but they leveled Berlin, and did not seem concerned about civ casualties. In the other wars I think we got cute. Especially in the ME. We should have engaged the enemy with the total domination, we have the technology to do that. I do not believe personally that you can fight a "precision" war. It does not seem to work. I think a lot less civilians would have died if we just had thrown the kitchen sink at them like we did Germany and Japan. I am...
The aspect that you are talking about goes against the winning the "hearts and minds" strategy. When ever collateral damage is disregarded, there is always the risk of turning the populace against the cause and the force that is occupying the disputed theater. Whether it be at home or in the country where the war is taking place, there is the political fallout that makes fighting such wars complicated business. WWII was so skewed in that aspect, that bombing the Germans into oblivion no one was going to object to because at that point everyone had collateral damage. The strange thing about the Vietnam war is that before US forces ever went in the late 50's early 60's, Ho Chi Minh sent a letter to Woodrow Wilson during the years when the French occupied the territory and he was visiting, basically outlining our constitution in hopes to appealing to US to help with their cause, and like the US when they gained their independence, was the source of inspiration for Ho Chi Minh's revolution. In fact he sought the US help as an ally, but due to blind loyalty to the French we made that mistake of entering a war we couldn't win. In reality, the French were the original oppressors and they should have been allowed to fail when they were finally defeated. The bitter irony with the French is when the US forces were taking heavy casualties in a prolonged war in the late sixties, it was the French who had the nerve and audacity to criticize the US for having fought such a war as they too were on the anti war bandwagon. That is one aspect that to this day gets my ire up when reading up on the historical aspects of this war. War is a dirty business, and the lessons of it never seem to be quite learned as the same mistakes get repeated again and again. I don't think the US has gotten quite over it in terms of the emotional and psychological scars it had caused, and led us to question our leaders and their selfish ambitions where trust became the central issue of doing the right thing. I think Vietnam changed that perspective forever. I guess in a microcosmic way, we are seeing some of those elements playing out today with our elected officials and the corruption that is consuming our fears, our trust, and inducing anxieties to hold accountable those who would lead us into more wars, only because it serves their purposes for political gain and not the interests of its people. Sooner or later the roosters come home to roost, or karma is ten fold, and that is what I fear the most right now.
  • #10,929
  • Oct 28, 2017 7:06am Oct 28, 2017 7:06am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} The aspect that you are talking about goes against the winning the "hearts and minds" strategy. When ever collateral damage is disregarded, there is always the risk of turning the populace against the cause and the force that is occupying the disputed theater. Whether it be at home or in the country where the war is taking place, there is the political fallout that makes fighting such wars complicated business. WWII was so skewed in that aspect, that bombing the Germans into oblivion no was going to object because at that point everyone...
You give Ho much too much credit. He was nothing but a hard core socialist/commie from the 19-teens. The letter sent to Wilson was also sent to all other Versailles heads of state. It was a petition at the Versailles peace talks to grant independence to Vienam. There was no chance it would have been democratic due to the political ideology of the petitioners. The letter was ignored as the focus was on screwing the Germans (which in itself is the one main reason for Hitler and WW II).

As far as war, Vietnam was run almost entirely by politicians who had no clue as to what they were doing. Because of this it was doomed to failure from the onset.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #10,930
  • Edited 8:21am Oct 28, 2017 8:03am | Edited 8:21am
Quoting spzd
{quote} You give Ho much too much credit. He was nothing but a hard core socialist/commie from the 19-teens. The letter sent to Wilson was also sent to all other Versailles heads of state. It was a petition at the Versailles peace talks to grant independence to Vienam. There was no chance it would have been democratic due to the political ideology of the petitioners. The letter was ignored as the focus was on screwing the Germans (which in itself is the one main reason for Hitler and WW II). As far as war, Vietnam was run almost entirely by politicians...
Yes I do know about the Versailles heads of state, I was remarking on how the elite class at the time all but ignored the native inhabitants pleas that was being occupied by a foreign country. The irony was lost that what the US represented, such as independence and freedom is what originally inspired Ho Chi Minh, those traits he admired and the US in that regards was held in high esteem. That of course changed when the first Marines landed and after a long bloody affair of fighting a war that had no real cause, or the fact that Nixon gave Tu his word only to be betrayed by Ford and congress in the end when the South needed the US the most, is when that changed for the US's credibility for many years afterwards.

I don't know what you mean about giving Ho Chi Minh too much credit, he was a man who had a vision for independence for his country and France and the US were the invaders, not really hard to concede that fact. Regardless of political ideology, the die was cast long ago when the French colonized Vietnam with imperial rule making Vietnamese as its subjects which they objected to. The US had no business being there period, and would have been better off ruffling the feathers of the French with a bruised ego then having spent billions of dollars and wasting of lives on both sides. Hegemonic terms such as "commie" or the fear of the spread of it during the height of the cold war was also not a justification to have moral grounds to invade the country where they had no economic interests and expending American lives for a lost cause. As far as being a politicians war, I think I stated that very clearly from an earlier post. All in all, hindsight being 20/20 at this point is a cliche.

And this should be a cautionary tale of learning lessons of the past, with such rhetoric we should heed our own warnings about playing the interventionist or instituting regime change. Let us hope this is mere Saber rattling than rumors of war being ratcheted up to illicit a response.

https://apnews.com/cdb523a4aece40fb8042685b6bfafb47/Mattis-says-threat-of-nuclear-attack-by-N.Korea-accelerating
  • #10,931
  • Oct 28, 2017 9:37am Oct 28, 2017 9:37am
Viet Nam Deja Vu

https://www.theburningplatform.com/2017/10/02/vietnam-deja-vu/#more-160371
In detegere possumus omnes mortui sunt
  • #10,932
  • Oct 28, 2017 9:39am Oct 28, 2017 9:39am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Yes I do know about the Versailles heads of state, I was remarking on how the elite class at the time all but ignored the native inhabitants pleas that was being occupied by a foreign country. The irony was lost that what the US represented, such as independence and freedom is what originally inspired Ho Chi Minh, those traits he admired and the US in that regards was held in high esteem. That of course changed when the first Marines landed and after a long bloody affair of fighting a war that had no real cause, or the fact that Nixon gave...
Ho was a commie bastard. He deserves zero credit. Fighting for "independence" so he could further enslave the people. What a laugh.

The US was there because of the Cold War. What about South Vietnam's independence? Even though they were inept and corrupt does not mean they had less right to independence than the commies.

The whole problem with places such as Vietnam and Korea is that the west allowed them to be split. Granted they were war weary, but they allowed this to go on by dividing these nations.

Vietnam was much more legitimate than the invasion of Iraq by Dubya. At least Trump has changed things so the locals do most of the fighting and dying. We spent nearly 15 years playing games by the politicians with their phony nation building.

You also can not compare Vietnam and Korea. North Korea has been the aggressor from the beginning and are still the aggressor. They do it with the approval of their master China. What Mattis says is correct. North Korea can NOT be allowed to have nuclear weapons. This problem has been allowed to fester for 30 years. It will be resolved soon.

And yes you do give Ho too much credit. Your attempt at connecting our independence and freedom as something that influenced someone who was a communist from his youth is ludicrous at best.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #10,933
  • Edited 10:56am Oct 28, 2017 10:44am | Edited 10:56am
Quoting Gamod
Tin foil hat test If you think the following statements are true you are not a tin foil hatter. WTC 7 collapsed into its own footprint due to fire. Oswald killed JFK, alone, with a magic bullet. Saddam had WMD’s Fort Knox has 8000 tons of unencumbered gold We really did land on the moon A jet airliner crashed into the Pentagon Seal team 6 killed OBL 15 - 6 = 9 Mankind is responsible for global warming Global warming is even a problem Electric cars, LED bulbs and windmills will save the planet Feminists are attractive and sexy Russia fixed the election...
i see you move and it was not cool

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that just tells me you are scared of the real conspiracy theories

the first picture is from a UFO in Belgium from 1989 and they sent their air force out to engage it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_UFO_wave) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7psGj4M1ZI) that was some technology that we don't possess

the second photo was the Phoenix lights (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCmI-MvIeU) look into these things if you are serious about conspiracy theories this (Fort Knox has 8000 tons of unencumbered gold) is a waste of time

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpeck/2014/01/13/iran-says-tall-white-space-aliens-control-america/#447d5337f2cd Forbes are trying to belittle this conspiracy theory but asks yourself why are they doing this??

and here is how you know the UFO thing hit a nerve well the truth hurts and i'm out here like a soldier of truth/God and i have no time for hurt feelings

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  • #10,934
  • Oct 28, 2017 11:27am Oct 28, 2017 11:27am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} i see you move and it was not cool {image} that just tells me you are scared of the real conspiracy theories the first picture is from a UFO in Belgium from 1989 and they sent their air force out to engage it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_UFO_wave) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7psGj4M1ZI) that was some technology that we don't possess the second photo was the Phoenix lights (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCmI-MvIeU) look into these...
Ross - I switched PM's off bc I think everything on here should be public.
I also don't think they are ''private'' anyway. No offence intended btw.
Re UFO's yes I believe there is something to the theories but I'm not sure atm whether they are aliens or developed from what the Nazi's handed over to America after the war. Or maybe its the Russians again.

I'm inclined to believe they are part of the secret space budget but I'm only mildly interested so I don't research it much. I also think 911 involved some of the technology developed in the secret space programme.
In detegere possumus omnes mortui sunt
  • #10,935
  • Oct 28, 2017 11:29am Oct 28, 2017 11:29am
If you believe the lone gunman, magic bullet story - this WILL change your mind.
This also means that it is no longer a conspiracy ''theory'' it is a conspiracy ''fact'' - another victory for the tin foil hat brigade.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-27/one-paragraph-you-need-read-jfk-assassination-files-may-change-everything
In detegere possumus omnes mortui sunt
  • #10,936
  • Oct 28, 2017 11:49am Oct 28, 2017 11:49am
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  • #10,937
  • Oct 28, 2017 1:54pm Oct 28, 2017 1:54pm
Quoting Gamod
{quote} Ross - I switched PM's off bc I think everything on here should be public. I also don't think they are ''private'' anyway. No offence intended btw. Re UFO's yes I believe there is something to the theories but I'm not sure atm whether they are aliens or developed from what the Nazi's handed over to America after the war. Or maybe its the Russians again. I'm inclined to believe they are part of the secret space budget but I'm only mildly interested so I don't research it much. I also think 911 involved some of the technology developed in...
Q, I switched PM's off bc I think everything on here should be public
sorry for thinking it was only me that could not message you directly my apologies

Q,UFO's yes I believe there is something to the theories but I'm not sure atm whether they are aliens or developed from what the Nazi's handed over to America after the war. Or maybe its the Russians again.
as i'm sure you know about the foo fights of WW2 they were reported from all sides not just the Alliance if they were German or Russians we would know about it by now from the USA because they took all of the top German rocket scientists and the Germans would have use them aggressively in WW2 or the Russians would have used them in the cold war or now that the cold war is over they would have used them to revolution aerial transport do you know about the cigar ships of WW2? how can this be explained? (In a 1967 lecture to the Greek Astronomical Society, broadcast on Athens Radio, Santorinis first publicly revealed what had been found in his 1947 investigation. "We soon established that they were not missiles. But, before we could do any more, the Army, after conferring with foreign officials (presumably U.S. Defense Dept.), ordered the investigation stopped. Foreign scientists [from Washington] flew to Greece for secret talks with me". Later Santorinis told UFO researchers such as Raymond Fowler that secrecy was invoked because officials were afraid to admit of a superior technology against which we have "no possibility of defense") (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_rockets) this is not Russian or German this is superior technology read the Forbes link

Q,I'm inclined to believe they are part of the secret space budget but I'm only mildly interested so I don't research it much. I also think 911 involved some of the technology developed in the secret space programme.
the USA government stole trillions of dollars from it's people

you are wasting your time with conspiracy theories unless it UFO's that the real shit flat Earth is a waste of time who killed JFK is a waste of time and so is the Moon leading UFO's is the real shit it's so much bigger than all the others combined
  • #10,938
  • Edited Oct 29, 2017 5:23am Oct 28, 2017 10:16pm | Edited Oct 29, 2017 5:23am
Quoting spzd
{quote} Ho was a commie bastard. He deserves zero credit. Fighting for "independence" so he could further enslave the people. What a laugh. The US was there because of the Cold War. What about South Vietnam's independence? Even though they were inept and corrupt does not mean they had less right to independence than the commies. The whole problem with places such as Vietnam and Korea is that the west allowed them to be split. Granted they were war weary, but they allowed this to go on by dividing these nations. Vietnam was much more legitimate than...

Ho was a commie bastard. He deserves zero credit. Fighting for "independence" so he could further enslave the people. What a laugh.

“Ho was a commie bastard. He deserves zero credit.”

Definition of bastard is a son born without a father, therefore adding bastard in the use of a hegemonic term to “Commie” is incorrect. While we can agree that communism is something to detest as well as loath, Ho Chi Minh was a living breathing human being who had parents just like you and me, and while we can disagree with his ideologies stating he deserves zero credit seems to be more myopically charged along emotional lines than an intellectual one. I respect anyone who is willing to fight for their independence regardless of whether I agree with their political views or not. In the end the US lost that fight, but eventually communism in Vietnam would also evolve succumbing to its flaws due to economic failures and it’s policies.

The US was there because of the Cold War. What about South Vietnam's independence? Even though they were inept and corrupt does not mean they had less right to independence than the commies.

What about South Vietnam? Independence? Yeah that is a laugh! No country is deserving of it if they are not willing to fight for it. This of course has exceptions as some AVRN soldiers were courageous in their efforts but most were corrupt which proved to be their undoing. The US didn’t create a culture of independence, if anything they created a culture of dependence and therefore was a major flaw in the entire South’s fight that was destined for failure from the beginning. Most US Military personnel there looked down on the South Vietnamese soldiers, and thought of themselves as superior to them, and were arrogant in their dispositions when fighting alongside them. Had they spent more time training the AVARN and less time indulging in their own righteousness the results may have been different. This of course was an indictment on the ineptness of the US leadership than the soldiers themselves.

The whole problem with places such as Vietnam and Korea is that the west allowed them to be split. Granted they were war weary, but they allowed this to go on by dividing these nations.

Agree. The problem after the 1954 Geneva accord where the country was split along North and South lines, was that the South failed to fortify its borders along Cambodia, Laos, and the DMZ, which proved difficult in stopping the development of the Ho Chi Minh trail, as well as deterring the North of waging war against the South. This is where the French failed in their own constitution to salvage their cause.

Vietnam was much more legitimate than the invasion of Iraq by Dubya. At least Trump has changed things so the locals do most of the fighting and dying. We spent nearly 15 years playing games by the politicians with their phony nation building.

You will get no argument from me about the Iraq war being legitimate, as I was in Iraq under both Bush administrations and seen first hand how politicians representing National corporate interests such as Haliburton and others created the false narrative of justifying the invasion of Iraq for the sole purpose of raping the American tax payers in order to enrich themselves. As far as Vietnam being legitimate, that is another matter altogether and I am not sure I am going to agree with you on that.

You also can not compare Vietnam and Korea. North Korea has been the aggressor from the beginning and are still the aggressor. They do it with the approval of their master China. What Mattis says is correct. North Korea can NOT be allowed to have nuclear weapons. This problem has been allowed to fester for 30 years. It will be resolved soon.

Why do you get the impression that I am making a comparison between Vietnam and North Korea? I am not and I think you are missing the broader point that I am making. I am merely stating that any military invasion with US forces would be costly, and if we haven’t learned anything from the past, then any such invasion by American forces would yield the same results as before and prove to be catastrophic, despite our technological advances.

How is it going to be resolved soon? By which method do you speak of will be used to resolve this issue?

And yes you do give Ho too much credit. Your attempt at connecting our independence and freedom as something that influenced someone who was a communist from his youth is ludicrous at best.

Well, again, with all due respect, you are making a statement based along a hegemonic perspective than a Cause and effect one. For the latter point I make, you ignored the rest of my context to understand why I hold this view. The fact you and I can agree that Communism runs counter as being the anti thesis to what we as Americans or for that matter Western democratic countries believe in, doesn’t mean that Ho Chi Minh’s beliefs are any less valid then yours or mine. I respect Ho Chi Minh for having stood up for what he believed in regardless that I disagreed with his beliefs. If you don’t respect your adversary then you already lost the war. Think about this one statement for a while.

It is like saying; Obama was Democrat therefore he deserves zero credit or Obama was a socialist from his youth therefore associating terms like Independence and freedom is ludicrous.

Of course using Obama in this analogy may seem absurd, and I would agree, because I tried to find something to admire about Obama, and I simply can’t, but you can replace him with any other democrat and still arrive at the same point, with the exception of JFK.

Also you make a broad assertion that Ho Chi Minh knew from the beginning that his motives were to enslave his people even further. How do you know that? How do you know that Ho Chi Minh, as flawed as his beliefs in communism was, was capable to see it’s flaws in the latter part of the 19th century? Do you think that the ideology from that era had the same connotations as the ones we come to know as today? Do such ideologies not evolve over time to mean something else in context and meaning? How do you know what a person is thinking in the early 1900’s where socio-economic dispositions, their views, their influences, their internal conflicts and perspectives that where shaped by the era that they lived in where also an impetus to derive their inspirations from such concepts like the US’s founding in order to give cause for their own independence? Is it possible that Ho Chi Minh was sincere in his beliefs but incapable to have the foresight what it may have led to a 100 years later? The answer is you don’t, and neither do I. Regardless if we may happen to think it’s absurd that such a person as Ho Chi Minh may draw inspiration from the US and it’s founding principles, it is not ludicrous just a difference in opinion in it’s representations, that has become out dated. How many US leaders can you name from the past whose views seem outdated to you? Can you name them? My point is I don’t make such arguments along nationalistic ones, but trying to see it from wider perspective as it relates to cause and effect. Ignoring this altogether is really about not learning from our mistakes and thus destined to repeat them again. Why is it that history is doomed to repeat itself? This is the broader argument that I am advocating against.
  • #10,939
  • Oct 28, 2017 11:22pm Oct 28, 2017 11:22pm
Quoting DrManhatten
Ho was a commie bastard. He deserves zero credit. Fighting for "independence" so he could further enslave the people. What a laugh. “Ho was a commie bastard. He deserves zero credit.” Definition of bastard is a son born without a father, therefore adding bastard in the use of a hegemonic term to “Commie” is incorrect.
Bastard also means a despicable person, a scoundrel (male) in English. We use the term "commie bastard" here.
  • #10,940
  • Oct 29, 2017 12:02am Oct 29, 2017 12:02am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Bastard also means a despicable person, a scoundrel (male) in English. We use the term "commie bastard" here.
I was more remarking on it because it was used in a hegemonic reference.
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