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The Rabbit Hole

  • #10,521
  • Oct 16, 2017 11:26am Oct 16, 2017 11:26am
Quoting kprsa
For me the most obvious way to visualize why the Earth is not flat is the existence of horizon. If the Earth were flat, the world would be a very strange place and would look differently. For example, there would not be a good reason why from Portugal you wouldn’t be able to see the Rocky Mountains with a telescope on a clear summer day. And yet, you just see the water waves on the horizon. If the Earth were flat, this would mean that the waves were much taller than the Rocky Mountains (as they obviously stand in between the observer and them)....
Perspective, focal range, swell, precipitation, evaporation. If I stand at 6 foot above sea level and view a horizontal plane even the smallest of swells will block something a lot taller in the background. There will likely be many different weather patterns going on too.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #10,522
  • Oct 16, 2017 11:41am Oct 16, 2017 11:41am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} If I stand at 6 foot above sea level and view a horizontal plane even the smallest of swells will block something a lot taller in the background.
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  • #10,523
  • Oct 16, 2017 11:48am Oct 16, 2017 11:48am
Quoting kprsa
{quote} {image}
Rough sketch but I'm sure you get the idea.

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Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #10,524
  • Oct 16, 2017 11:51am Oct 16, 2017 11:51am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Perspective, focal range, swell, precipitation, evaporation. If I stand at 6 foot above sea level and view a horizontal plane even the smallest of swells will block something a lot taller in the background. There will likely be many different weather patterns going on too.
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  • #10,525
  • Oct 16, 2017 11:54am Oct 16, 2017 11:54am
Quoting AlexC
{quote} {image} {image}
But no conclusion reached about canal. Can you see the issue ?
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #10,526
  • Oct 16, 2017 11:56am Oct 16, 2017 11:56am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Rough sketch but I'm sure you get the idea. {image}
But this swell must be at least taller than you are for this. And if you happen to climb up the Mount Torre (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torre_(Serra_da_Estrela)), 2000 m above sea level, you again will not see the Rocky Mountains, because in your view the swell will be taller than your 6 feet+2000 meters. No matter how high you go, the “smallest of swells” in the flat Earth picture is either taller than your altitude above sea level or taller than the Rocky Mountains. You don’t see a problem here?
k
  • #10,527
  • Oct 16, 2017 12:02pm Oct 16, 2017 12:02pm
Quoting kprsa
{quote} But this swell must be at least taller than you are for this. And if you happen to climb up the Mount Torre (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torre_(Serra_da_Estrela)), 2000 m above sea level, you again will not see the Rocky Mountains, because in your view the swell will be taller than your 6 feet+2000 meters. No matter how high you go, the “smallest of swells” in the flat Earth picture is either taller than your altitude above sea level or taller than the Rocky Mountains. You don’t see a problem here? k
yes i see a problem but you need to go out to sea and understand visibility in different conditions.

This is to scale and doesn't look like any adjustment for curvature.

https://www.citeco.fr/10000-years-history-economics/media/images/resize/w1000_1869_2_canal_suez.jpg
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #10,528
  • Oct 16, 2017 12:11pm Oct 16, 2017 12:11pm
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} yes i see a problem but you need to go out to sea and understand visibility in different conditions.
I am sure there are sometimes “perfect” conditions, meaning no kilometer-tall waves. And yet you will never see America from Europe.

Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} This is to scale and doesn't look like any adjustment for curvature. https://www.citeco.fr/10000-years-history-economics/media/images/resize/w1000_1869_2_canal_suez.jpg
I’d venture a guess that the engineers involved were aware of Earth’s shape, so they make their plots relative to the sea level or something.
k
  • #10,529
  • Oct 16, 2017 12:39pm Oct 16, 2017 12:39pm
Quoting kprsa
{quote} I am sure there are sometimes “perfect” conditions, meaning no kilometer-tall waves. And yet you will never see America from Europe. {quote} I’d venture a guess that the engineers involved were aware of Earth’s shape, so they make their plots relative to the sea level or something. k
The word is datum was 26 feet below sea level and then a level dig. A level dig is what it is called, same level transferred until you get to where you are going.
You do see the issue with being able to see across the atlantic.... surely ?
Regardless there are examples of buildings, landmarks etc which are visible from positions which should be beyond the globe horizon.
Quite a lot of examples once you start looking. I know true flat earthers have many other arguments and seem to have an alternate answer for every globe explanation buy for me personally water is the key.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #10,530
  • Oct 16, 2017 12:42pm Oct 16, 2017 12:42pm
If you want an argument based on common Forex knowledge:
If the Earth were flat, the sunrise time in Tokio should roughly coincide with our sunrise. How is it so that the Tokio session opens around midnight (European time) then? The Japanese must be the strangest people, starting their workday in the middle of the night...
Cheers,
k
  • #10,531
  • Oct 16, 2017 1:01pm Oct 16, 2017 1:01pm
Quoting kprsa
If you want an argument based on common Forex knowledge: If the Earth were flat, the sunrise time in Tokio should roughly coincide with our sunrise. How is it so that the Tokio session opens around midnight (European time) then? The Japanese must be the strangest people, starting their workday in the middle of the night... Cheers, k

I don't want an argument, not a Monty Python type one anyway, I am merely interested in that particular aspect of the whole argument between the two camps because I know the properties of water as do most when they really think about it. As a physicist I appreciate your attempts at discussing the matter but it would appear you are relying on relaying what you have been taught rather than actual experience of such matters.
I don't have an explanation for time zones but I believe there is an alternate explanation out there if it interests you.

Thanks Again for your input.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #10,532
  • Oct 16, 2017 1:37pm Oct 16, 2017 1:37pm
Quoting Stu Effex
Anyone had PM from a member called Sarah.Mar ?
Yep -- same one U got I suspect.
Defending Truth, Capitalism and the US Constitution
  • #10,533
  • Oct 16, 2017 1:57pm Oct 16, 2017 1:57pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} ==> {quote} We can start with this one if you want ... do you really want to ? (: I will give you the benefit of the doubt and place this gem on simple ignorance, and that is ok! However, some people do prefer their ideology rather than face annoying and inconvenient scientific and historical facts, and that is not ok.
Still waiting for a original thought from you, ming.
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Defending Truth, Capitalism and the US Constitution
  • #10,534
  • Oct 16, 2017 2:03pm Oct 16, 2017 2:03pm
It just gets better every day. The president keeps punching back. All the illegal acts the bammer signed into being are being rectified. Nancy and Chucky loosing it. It took a BBC reporter to ask Hillary "what about your own husband" when it comes to rapist and predators.

And now the president says its time to review and reform welfare, the democrats sacred cow.

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Defending Truth, Capitalism and the US Constitution
  • #10,535
  • Oct 16, 2017 2:28pm Oct 16, 2017 2:28pm
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} I don't want an argument, not a Monty Python type one anyway, I am merely interested in that particular aspect of the whole argument between the two camps because I know the properties of water as do most when they really think about it. As a physicist I appreciate your attempts at discussing the matter but it would appear you are relying on relaying what you have been taught rather than actual experience of such matters. I don't have an explanation for time zones but I believe there is an alternate explanation out there if it interests...
My turn to ask.
If the earth was flat like a plate, how would day and night work?
What's on the other side of the plate?

The fun bit.
Assuming the mass of the earth was the same, therefore the diameter would be much bigger than being a sphere. Gravity would be sideways towards the centre, with a stronger sideways pull the further out you go. At the centre it would be miniscule if any at all. The seas would slope to a peak at the centre.
So life cannot exist as we know it. All 8 billion of us would be huddled together floating around the centre. I haven't thought about plants yet.
Your muscles would deteriorate and your bones would lose density because you are not using them as there is little or no gravity. Think of astronauts. So we would look like gastropods floating, bumping into one another, in quite a tight area. All animal life would do the same.

Re. people looking like blobs. That's a convincing case. I see a lot.
  • #10,536
  • Oct 16, 2017 2:35pm Oct 16, 2017 2:35pm
Quoting jen101
{quote} If the earth was flat like a plate, how would day and night work?
I was curious, and this appears to be the „explanation“ for the time zones, also night and day I guess. Apart from the perpetual full Moon, one could find a few other things that are off in this picture as well.

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  • #10,537
  • Edited 3:41pm Oct 16, 2017 3:25pm | Edited 3:41pm
Quoting kprsa
{quote} I was curious, and this appears to be the „explanation“ for the time zones, also night and day I guess. Apart from the perpetual full Moon, one could find a few other things that are off in this picture as well. {image}
What’s at the edge of earth?

also - for that to work the sun would have to be much much smaller than we are lead to believe, to such an extent would it even have a warming effect?
  • #10,538
  • Oct 16, 2017 9:10pm Oct 16, 2017 9:10pm
Quoting verv
{quote} What’s at the edge of earth?
There be dragons, obviously.

Quoting verv
{quote} also - for that to work the sun would have to be much much smaller than we are lead to believe, to such an extent would it even have a warming effect?
As far as I can tell, it would more be like a focused lamp. However, then sunrises and sunsets would not look as they do in reality. The sun at sunset would diminish and disappear while the sun would still be up in the sky, rather than falling below the horizon.
k
  • #10,539
  • Oct 16, 2017 11:00pm Oct 16, 2017 11:00pm
Jen/Kp/Verv

Look into it. Kp has given the basic model but they do have further explanation to satisfy eclipses, sun rise sun set, etc I haven't really delved into that. As astronaught Jen my thinking is they are astrozero's.

Got a speed awareness course to go to now, might make me understand why I can't feel the earth whizzing round at silly miles per hour without me losing my wig !

Later .....
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #10,540
  • Edited Oct 17, 2017 12:01am Oct 16, 2017 11:03pm | Edited Oct 17, 2017 12:01am
Quoting jarhead
{quote} Still waiting for a original thought from you, ming. {image}
1) Like I have said before, the trump candidacy and insane posturing was a ploy by the democrats to absolutely make sure that HC would be elected.

2) Larry Flint is offering 10 million for some dirt on the Donald. They should look under "Money Laundering / Russian mafia".

3) All and all, it will all lead to this: https://impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org/

We will lose the greatest comedian that the world has ever known. "sad"
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