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  • #10,001
  • Oct 6, 2017 10:34am Oct 6, 2017 10:34am
Quoting verv
{quote} You are stating it is impossible for him to have acted alone based on evidence which when I view doesn't lead me to the same conclusion. I have a relative who works quite literally as a forensic weapons experts, he presents his findings to court in gun crime. In his work he has just about every gun you can imagine, pistols, shotguns, rifles, mounted machine guns, RPGs, it is literally his job to investigate gun crime. He believes it is entirely possible to be just one shooter, he said all it takes is 'planning'. Did anybody stop and think...
Well I have such experience with such weapons and I too also have friends who are weapons experts, ex military and other friends who work in in law enforcement who would disagree with your expert. Have your friend do a video explaining why its possible based on his findings then we can discuss the merits of his case. While we can argue on whether it is possible, on that face alone I guess we can say anything is possible but it is highly unlikely given the circumstances we already know. And no we are not trying to find a conspiracy everywhere we look, and you do much to invalidate the possibilities and views that others may present as plausible. Yours is no more valid than mine or any other person for that matter, its just I try to look at it from every angle instead outright trying to dismiss it altogether, which is what I am getting from you.
  • #10,002
  • Oct 6, 2017 10:36am Oct 6, 2017 10:36am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} thanks you are back to being hilarious posing a Steve Shives video did you know he love's chick's with D's out of curiosity do you remember which group of people voted from Hillary Clinton at a percentage at 94% what was the percentage of white men that voted for Trump was it 63% of white men so which group is most likely being manipulated?
Regardless of race or religion, isn't just all the dumb ones who voted for Trump ?
  • #10,003
  • Oct 6, 2017 10:36am Oct 6, 2017 10:36am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I must say I am not very knowledgeable in "who is who" on youtube. Looks like you are, so tell me what do you mean exactly ? Chicks with Dogs ? Chicks with Dimples ? Chicks with Degrees ? Chicks with Daggers ? Chicks with Diamonds ? Chicks with Dentures ? Chicks with Dandruff ? What ? (;
surprise surprise the old white guy does not know urban slang why do you hate yourself so much??


just copy and paste this (Steve Shives video did you know he love's chick's with D's) into Google a Bearing video will come up
  • #10,004
  • Oct 6, 2017 10:41am Oct 6, 2017 10:41am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Regardless of race or religion, isn't just all the dumb ones who voted for Trump ?
so this certain group that voted at 94% for Hillary was the best informed group in America?? in something that is basically a 50/50 if a group is voting at a 94% they are obviously being manipulated especially if their candidate lost so was not even the best person for the job keep in mind before the election i was saying the American public were stuck between a rock and a hard place i'm not a Trump supporter but if i was a American citizen i would have been forced to vote for Trump as Hillary is a bad person
  • #10,005
  • Oct 6, 2017 10:52am Oct 6, 2017 10:52am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Well I have such experience with such weapons and I too also have friends who are weapons experts, ex military and other friends who work in in law enforcement who would disagree with your expert. Have your friend do a video explaining why its possible based on his findings then we can discuss the merits of his case. While we can argue on whether it is possible, on that face alone I guess we can say anything is possible but it is highly unlikely given the circumstances we already know. And no we are not trying to find a conspiracy everywhere...
What you claim you are doing... "its just I try to look at it from every angle instead outright trying to dismiss it altogether"... even though you said the post prior... "it is IMPOSSIBLE to assume he acted alone, let alone if you accept he did it at all".

You claim I am doing... "much to invalidate the possibilities and views that others may present as plausible"... and... "trying to dismiss it altogether, which is what I am getting from you." DESPITE the fact that I said each time in my three posts that there could have been someone else... 1. "What I mean to say is there could be multiple shooters, but I just don't see how anybody can come to that conclusion on the available evidence. The video sounds like one automatic gun to me." ... 2. "As I said it might very well be the case there was another shooter, but it's also possible there might only have been one shooter." ... 3. "He could have an accomplice, I thought the cops said as much"

Quick recap, you claim you are open minded despite initially claiming it was impossible. You claim I'm closed minded despite me saying two times there could be second shooter and another time that there could be an accomplice.

Top logic.
  • #10,006
  • Oct 6, 2017 10:53am Oct 6, 2017 10:53am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} so this certain group that voted at 94% for Hillary was the best informed group in America?? in something that is basically a 50/50 if a group is voting at a 94% they are obviously being manipulated especially if their candidate lost so was not even the best person for the job keep in mind before the election i was saying the American public were stuck between a rock and a hard place i'm not a Trump supporter but if i was a American citizen i would have been forced to vote for Trump as Hillary is a bad person
That certainly is 100 % correct !
That is why I believe that this Trump thingy is a Hillary scheme gone very very wrong for her.
  • #10,008
  • Oct 6, 2017 10:59am Oct 6, 2017 10:59am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} That certainly is 100 % correct ! That is why I believe that this Trump thingy is a Hillary scheme gone very very wrong for her.
I dont think that is the case but I remember some people remarking that they thought Trump was a democrap plant
  • #10,009
  • Oct 6, 2017 11:14am Oct 6, 2017 11:14am
Quoting verv
{quote} I could get 400lbs of concealed equipment upstairs in a few trips without any trouble, 10 trips in an hour or two, carrying 40lbs in each trip is dead easy. I reckon I could fire a gun into a crowd without too much effort either, not much training required to hit people in a crowd of a few thousand. 800lbs of hurricane force windows is a difficult term to understand, isn't it lbs per square inch which is important, a hammer will take out most windows especially using the claw end to increasing force per area. Wackjobs sometimes don't need...
I'm over 60, I have fired a 7.62mm SLR in the past. I stood next to a sergeant and watched him discharge a Nato issue FN rifle (?) which uses the same 7.62mm ammunition in automatic mode. Didn't take him long to lose the whole clip, didn't seem to have any trouble hanging onto the weapon although he was using it in Al Capone mode. So I guess if you are fit and strong then being over 60 just means nobody will believe you.

You would need to be strong to hang onto an automatic weapon, you can see (I laugh when I watch the TV clips) the wimps trying to control an AK during a burst. The barrels get very hot after a few rounds, surprisingly hot. You would need a proper automatic weapon to discharge that many rounds ... or lots of rifles.

I would probably be knackered after eight trips up and down the elevators with 25kg of payload.......
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #10,010
  • Oct 6, 2017 11:21am Oct 6, 2017 11:21am
Quoting verv
{quote} What you claim you are doing... "its just I try to look at it from every angle instead outright trying to dismiss it altogether"... even though you said the post prior... "it is IMPOSSIBLE to assume he acted alone, let alone if you accept he did it at all". You claim I am doing... "much to invalidate the possibilities and views that others may present as plausible"... and... "trying to dismiss it altogether, which is what I am getting from you." DESPITE the fact that I said each time in my three posts that there could have been someone else......

Its not what I am doing, I stand by what I said, yes it is my opinion that it is impossible to achieve what you are trying to dispute. I base that on my experience and what I know 2. I don't think it was possible a single shooter was responsible for this. So we can disagree on this, so please stop with trying to twist this around to make it look like I am close minded. I just think your premise is absolutely absurd, especially if you never had any experience with such weapons and takes the words of what others are telling you. Again, have your friend make a video based on his claims and lets discuss the merits of his claims. Better yet Verve go find some time for yourself and go out on a firing range and go let off some rounds then come back and tell me it is easy! You basically ignore all other factors I presented, so there is really no argument here!

2. Excuse me if I misread your statement but you saying. "well it is possible, i just don't see any evidence of that" is what I was reacting to. Especially about the multiple gun fire part from the video. It clearly does support that there were more than one firearm going off. Do you have a hearing impairment? Or are you not able to make that distinction or discern the difference of gun cadence because more to my earlier point you don't have such experience with firing of weapons? Funny how you seem to ignore my earlier questions to this point while at the same time trying to sound as if you would know what to look for. This is what I find rather absurd about your statement.
  • #10,011
  • Oct 6, 2017 11:24am Oct 6, 2017 11:24am
Quoting Ross88
Hidden
No. But more like this!

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #10,012
  • Oct 6, 2017 12:09pm Oct 6, 2017 12:09pm
Quoting Exodus
{quote} I'm over 60, I have fired a 7.62mm SLR in the past. I stood next to a sergeant and watched him discharge a Nato issue FN rifle (?) which uses the same 7.62mm ammunition in automatic mode. Didn't take him long to lose the whole clip, didn't seem to have any trouble hanging onto the weapon although he was using it in Al Capone mode. So I guess if you are fit and strong then being over 60 just means nobody will believe you. You would need to be strong to hang onto an automatic weapon, you can see (I laugh when I watch the TV clips) the wimps...
Ex! I'm disappointed in you! "Elevators?" What's wrong with speaking English? Lifts!
  • #10,013
  • Edited 12:26pm Oct 6, 2017 12:13pm | Edited 12:26pm
Quoting Mingary
Why I love this thread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3DCcyLXlN8
He seems rather wet behind the ears to me.

Kind Regards

Angry White, Straight Man.

Edit: Of course you do know what Ross is talking about chicks with D's, you were close with dagger..... prefix with Mutton or Pork !
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #10,014
  • Oct 6, 2017 12:30pm Oct 6, 2017 12:30pm
Jen we ready for a tune or 2....

https://youtu.be/6AJ4mRPX1SQ
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #10,015
  • Oct 6, 2017 12:37pm Oct 6, 2017 12:37pm
https://youtu.be/nG2oQ65zi-Q

Ok Verve you asked for it so here it is. This is a professional breaking down the video and identifying at least two shooters. There is no doubt about it! An expert who agrees with my opinion. Also what is also strange in which he also points out is the lights. Who kept the lights on? Maybe a dumb fatal mistake or something is a miss? But very strange and very messed up. I can tell just from the sounds that there is no way those shots were fired from the 32nd floor. This is the best analysis you are going to find on this anywhere!
  • #10,016
  • Oct 6, 2017 1:37pm Oct 6, 2017 1:37pm
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Its not what I am doing, I stand by what I said, yes it is my opinion that it is impossible to achieve what you are trying to dispute. I base that on my experience and what I know 2. I don't think it was possible a single shooter was responsible for this. So we can disagree on this, so please stop with trying to twist this around to make it look like I am close minded. I just think your premise is absolutely absurd, especially if you never had any experience with such weapons and takes the words of what others are telling you. Again, have...
How exactly am I 'twisting' things by quoting your posts word for word? I made sure to requote you.

I said based on the evidence I don't see how people can come to the conclusion there was a second shooter, that's an opinion and you are free to disagree. And after I said that I also said maybe there was a second shooter - point being I'm not currently persuaded.

Nowhere did I make the bold statement that it was 'impossible' like you did. That sounds pretty closed minded to me.

Maybe that wasn't the way you intended to come across, so if you didn't that's fine.

As for the guy who works in forensics, how do you think I float the idea of making a video about it to him? 'Hey suspend your live cases, there is a guy online who wants your personal opinion on Las Vegas shooting'. Lol. Yeh that's not going to happen, nevermind him demonstrating on government owned weapons and then making that footage available would probably result in him losing his job. What I can do is ask questions and pass on his reply.

i will try and watch that video over the coming days.
  • #10,017
  • Oct 6, 2017 1:46pm Oct 6, 2017 1:46pm
Quoting Exodus
{quote} I'm over 60, I have fired a 7.62mm SLR in the past. I stood next to a sergeant and watched him discharge a Nato issue FN rifle (?) which uses the same 7.62mm ammunition in automatic mode. Didn't take him long to lose the whole clip, didn't seem to have any trouble hanging onto the weapon although he was using it in Al Capone mode. So I guess if you are fit and strong then being over 60 just means nobody will believe you. You would need to be strong to hang onto an automatic weapon, you can see (I laugh when I watch the TV clips) the wimps...
I would be too walking up and down the stairs lol. Im wrecked carrying my own weight up and down the stairs in work - lazy man me.

The barrels issues, the guy had 4-5 guns laying around. I don't know if he switched, I imagine he did but I don't know.
  • #10,018
  • Edited 10:53pm Oct 6, 2017 10:23pm | Edited 10:53pm
Quoting verv
{quote} I dont think that is the case but I remember some people remarking that they thought Trump was a democrap plant
Indeed it's the only explanation that makes sense.

I don't think Trump is just Hillary's patsy gone rogue, I think he is too stupid to have been able to double cross her. I think the public responded in favor of ANYONE EXCEPT HILLARY. The plan would have worked had she gone low enough ... she should have picked an even lower life form than Trump, a sponge perhaps.
  • #10,019
  • Edited 11:15pm Oct 6, 2017 10:33pm | Edited 11:15pm
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} He seems rather wet behind the ears to me. Kind Regards Angry White, Straight Man. Edit: Of course you do know what Ross is talking about chicks with D's, you were close with dagger..... prefix with Mutton or Pork !
At first no, I am just not used to that low level of banter ...

It's like going so low that your only come back to justify some position is to argue Obama is gay or his wife is a transexual...
A common debate strategy from ignorance and stupidity
it's like arguing with a 12 year old who is feeling more confident about using all the "bad words"
  • #10,020
  • Oct 7, 2017 12:06am Oct 7, 2017 12:06am
Quoting verv
{quote} How exactly am I 'twisting' things by quoting your posts word for word? I made sure to requote you. I said based on the evidence I don't see how people can come to the conclusion there was a second shooter, that's an opinion and you are free to disagree. And after I said that I also said maybe there was a second shooter - point being I'm not currently persuaded. Nowhere did I make the bold statement that it was 'impossible' like you did. That sounds pretty closed minded to me. Maybe that wasn't the way you intended to come across, so if...
Again, just because I stated that it is impossible given all the facts that we know, doesn't make me close minded, is the assertion you made which I take issue with.

I have no idea how you would get your forensics guy to make a video, I am assuming it would not be that hard to do in his off time to put something together to support his theories without having to use government weapons (which is hilarious in how you put it) There is plenty of ways of doing it without having to use live weapons such as pictures and graphics that is available online to explain and present something with a cogent clear explanation. Not that hard to do! Also you put that out there as being an aspect to support your original statement, and I would be very skeptical of any guy working for the Government to be trust worthy to provide the truth, it is after all the Government who have been known to play the PR campaign when things of this nature has happened in the past and controlling the optics as well as the narrative is a way to keep the public misinformed of the truth in order to score political points while at the same time trying to calm the mass hysteria from happening.

First, the guy in the video is not a forensics expert, but a gun expert who has plenty of experience with weapons.

Second and more to my earlier point, if you don't have experience with handling such weapons personally or have never been to a firing range to know what specific weapons are, and how their cadence is a signature how would you know what to listen for?

While I will concede to your friends assertion that it is possible to fire on a crowd from 5000 + meters, from a 32nd window to have done so there would have been muzzle flashes seen in some of the videos. None have been spotted. The video clearly explains why as well, so no to that explanation altogether.

Also to your previous point, about "bump Stocks" a modification on the alleged weapon used to make it easier to handle is pretty much debunked. There is no way that would have made it easier, in fact it would have made it harder and to be accurate. Also I heard people saying that a suppressor was used, but that too would have been impossible given the duration of fire that occurred. Suppressors are only good for short bursts, and would not be able to sustain a long rapid succession of firing, as they would melt from being over heated. This guy's presentation is a correct one in that the weapon used was one that was either a drum or belt driven automatic mechanism, something that is illegal to own as a private citizen and only military or special operators are allowed to operate.

When it comes to the points I just made, I will make it clear to you, that I personally own and have operated almost every type of firearm available, with the exception of a bazooka. When I say that there was more than one shooter involved, I am 100% unequivocal about this. Call me close minded if you want, but I speak from my own experience of handling such weapons and know how to identify the different signature cadences of certain types of weapons in how they sound. Whether Paddock was even the shooter is something I am however open to be mistaken about, but given what I know and what I have examined so far, it is my opinion that he wasn't even the shooter at all. You can disagree with that assertion, and that is fine with me, as you are entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine.

Anyway, have a good weekend, and hope this clears up what I was trying to say.
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