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Higher Edge within a Single Candlestick

  • #441
  • Sep 20, 2017 8:35am Sep 20, 2017 8:35am
Quoting artem_t
{quote} Hi! You're showing Renko bars while I was talking about Range bars - they are different. Renko bars don't have wicks at all.
renko do have wicks unless you decide to hide them.
  • #442
  • Sep 20, 2017 8:51am Sep 20, 2017 8:51am
Quoting havo
{quote} EXACTLY THIS keep going you are almost there =) in fact im gona give you a hint; there its a 3 bar formation with range bars that always lead to a move in 1 direction
hmm havo in saying Always, do you mean this pattern works 100% in leading to 1 direction ? sounds like a holy grail or something. How long you ve been using using it if you dont mind me asking. And can you share a couple charts please.
  • #443
  • Sep 20, 2017 10:37am Sep 20, 2017 10:37am
Quoting metta87
{quote} renko do have wicks unless you decide to hide them.
I never saw wicks on Renko (as Investopedia says its name even came from Japanese word "renga" - which means "bricks"), but I won't argue anything as I personally have never used them.
Let's go with the flow
  • #444
  • Sep 20, 2017 10:59am Sep 20, 2017 10:59am
Quoting havo
{quote} the "higher edge in a single candlestick" its in the wicks AND what it could happen in the next bar if this one fails to make a lower/higher wick and what price do after that (think about it and watch it on any chart) Range bars you can see the edge even more clear.. once you know it

i'll give it a whirl...wicks = resistance/support (on lower time frame, they are usually a swing) so...what? when the wick is taken out it usually continues in that direction? not new info. non-obtuse explanation here of course i could be not understanding what you are getting at

so with range bars..... lets say a wick forms at the top... then disappears when the wick is taken out as price moves higher (new range bar opens above) entry long for 1 to 1 or more trade?


something like that seems like what you are getting at

using sweet spots instead of range bars (same thing different view) is easier to see what is going on inside the range. renko bars give wicks becasue of what they are and how they are defined...range bars, no so much..... did you intend to say range bars or renko bars?

but the 3 range bar pattern makes no sense to my brain.... seems every bar would just as tradeable as every other bar.... unless you are talking about multiple size range bars or something

hmmmmmmmmmm
  • #445
  • Sep 20, 2017 11:08am Sep 20, 2017 11:08am
Quoting metta87
{quote} hmm havo in saying Always, do you mean this pattern works 100% in leading to 1 direction ? sounds like a holy grail or something. How long you ve been using using it if you dont mind me asking. And can you share a couple charts please.

"almost" always.. it have a Stupid high "success" ratio if you understand it... AND use it in the proper context/moment (nothing complicated).. AND you wait for it (patience and discipline).. AND you actually catch it wich its NOT always easy with range bars since there its no time to check like "every 15 minutes or 1 hour it will print a new candle" etc etc they just print whenever they want lol

its a price imbalance in your face and its VERY easy to see (once you know) with range bars since its only price and ther isnt any time inside the candles


I dont want to sound like an asshole (im actually very cool ), but check range bars first, Read and see how they work, test them.. THEN we can talk
  • #446
  • Sep 20, 2017 11:18am Sep 20, 2017 11:18am
the red bar(line) is equivalent to a range bar...the circled part(in green) would show up as a wick if you had actually drawn the range bar..... not seeing such a giant edge....so call me confused LOL



havo playing with ya'll? got everybody on a wild goose chase? not cool lol
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  • #447
  • Sep 20, 2017 11:41am Sep 20, 2017 11:41am
Hey dagoods, have you ever used range bars and do you know how they work ?
  • #448
  • Sep 20, 2017 11:49am Sep 20, 2017 11:49am
Quoting dagoods
the red bar(line) is equivalent to a range bar...the circled part(in green) would show up as a wick if you had actually drawn the range bar..... not seeing such a giant edge....so call me confused LOL havo playing with ya'll? got everybody on a wild goose chase? not cool lol {image}
That's how it would be drawn in your example:

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Let's go with the flow
  • #449
  • Sep 20, 2017 11:55am Sep 20, 2017 11:55am
Quoting havo
{quote} "almost" always.. it have a Stupid high "success" ratio if you understand it... AND use it in the proper context/moment (nothing complicated).. AND you wait for it (patience and discipline).. AND you actually catch it wich its NOT always easy with range bars since there its no time to check like "every 15 minutes or 1 hour it will print a new candle" etc etc they just print whenever they want lol its a price imbalance in your face and its VERY easy to see (once you know) with range bars since its only price and ther isnt any time inside...
For sure "almost" always is more credible than always ! Now, what did you mean when you said AND use it in the proper context ?? Is this what gives you your stupid high "success" ratio or is it the range bars and wicks you were hinting at earlier tha do. Cause i pulled my range bar charts and i dont see the imbalance you talked about ( which you said is VERY easy to see on range bars ). So can you pull up some charts to explain it better or i can post the charts and you ll comment on them if you prefer. Thanks a lot.
  • #450
  • Sep 20, 2017 12:39pm Sep 20, 2017 12:39pm
Quoting artem_t
{quote} That's how it would be drawn in your example: {image}
Indeed !
  • #451
  • Edited 1:00pm Sep 20, 2017 12:49pm | Edited 1:00pm
Quoting artem_t
{quote} That's how it would be drawn in your example: {image}

hmmmmm i don't think so actually..... the first wick to form would be at the top of the first bar... it would switch back n forth a few times i.e it would have repainted first..... only after bar 2 is completed would you KNOW that it would end up with a wick on the bottom. right? if it had gone short the wick would be at the top...no?

is havo saying to use wicks on closed bars or as they are repainting?

lets not pretend it is mysterious

without entry SL and TP criteria, is it useful at all to bother to discuss?

""95% of the time price will close above or below the open." is what was said in the first post

BUT does that actually give any kind of edge?


with range bars 100% of the time the price will close above or below the first wick upon completion of the next range bar.
BUT again, does that actually give any kind of edge?
  • #452
  • Sep 20, 2017 1:03pm Sep 20, 2017 1:03pm
Quoting dagoods
{quote} . only after bar 2 is completed would you KNOW that it would end up with a wick on the bottom. right?
Sure.

Quoting dagoods
{quote} if it had gone short the wick would be at the top or gone...no?
Yes, it would. But I mentioned exactly closed bar.

Quoting dagoods
{quote} is havo saying to use wicks on closed bars or as they are repainting?
I can't be sure, so I think it would be better if he answers himself.

Quoting dagoods
{quote} "95% of the time price will close above or below the open." is what was said in the first post BUT does that actually give any kind of edge? with range bars 100% of the time the price will close above or below the first wick upon completion of the next range bar. BUT again, does that actually give any kind of edge?
I'm sure it does give an edge, but only for those who understands how to use it properly.
Let's go with the flow
  • #453
  • Edited 2:01pm Sep 20, 2017 1:16pm | Edited 2:01pm
Quoting dagoods
{quote} hmmmmm i don't think so actually..... the first wick to form would be at the top of the first bar... it would switch back n forth a few times i.e it would have repainted first..... only after bar 2 is completed would you KNOW that it would end up with a wick on the bottom. right? if it had gone short the wick would be at the top...no? is havo saying to use wicks on closed bars or as they are repainting? lets not pretend it is mysterious without entry SL and TP criteria, is it useful at all to bother to discuss?
Concerning havo system, i agree sl and tp is important, but tbh what im really interested in is this imbalance he talked about.
  • #454
  • Sep 20, 2017 3:48pm Sep 20, 2017 3:48pm
mm.. lets go step by step lol

Quoting dagoods
the red bar(line) is equivalent to a range bar...the circled part(in green) would show up as a wick if you had actually drawn the range bar..... not seeing such a giant edge....so call me confused LOL havo playing with ya'll? got everybody on a wild goose chase? not cool lol {image}
First, you just can not compare range with regular candlesticks, you need to see 1 or the other or your gona get lost

thats why you are getting confused


Quoting metta87
{quote} For sure "almost" always is more credible than always ! Now, what did you mean when you said AND use it in the proper context ?? Is this what gives you your stupid high "success" ratio or is it the range bars and wicks you were hinting at earlier tha do. Cause i pulled my range bar charts and i dont see the imbalance you talked about ( which you said is VERY easy to see on range bars ). So can you pull up some charts to explain it better or i can post the charts and you ll comment on them if you prefer. Thanks a lot.
Context its where you are standing right now (or the candles in this case) vs the "wth" its going on (price stalled? going up?,down?) or in other words, where its the price right now vs what its going on (moving somewhere or stalled).

1.- Context (trending, price stalled/ranging)
2.- Level (a point where the price could turn the other way) can be a "possible" support/resistance, daily/weekly high/low, etc you get it
3.- Entry (the actual price imbalance that start the move)

Quoting dagoods
{quote}"95% of the time price will close above or below the open." is what was said in the first post BUT does that actually give any kind of edge? with range bars 100% of the time the price will close above or below the first wick upon completion of the next range bar. BUT again, does that actually give any kind of edge?
ITS RIGHT IN YOUR NOSE MAN !!!


Yes, even used randomly the hit rate is high (even when the market is calm).. And used in the proper "levels" on the charts and active sessions the hit rate is crazy and sometimes you can have some long runners (pip range its important, you can use it as a filter for bad times to trade)

THE PROBLEM its the range bars in itself; depending on the pip range they can paint new bars in seconds/minutes or who knows when.. and when the moment to enter arrives you can miss it and anyone who trades range bars can understand my words
  • #455
  • Sep 20, 2017 4:36pm Sep 20, 2017 4:36pm
Quoting havo
mm.. lets go step by step lol {quote} First, you just can not compare range with regular candlesticks, you need to see 1 or the other or your gona get lost thats why you are getting confused {quote} Context its where you are standing right now (or the candles in this case) vs the "wth" its going on (price stalled? going up?,down?) or in other words, where its the price right now vs what its going on (moving somewhere or stalled). 1.- Context (trending, price stalled/ranging) 2.- Level (a point where the price could turn the other way)...

i wasn't confused at all...until i read your post...now i'm really confused LOL

ITS RIGHT IN YOUR NOSE MAN !!!

who wants to pick my nose? any takers

post some visuals man

pic worth thousand words and all
  • #456
  • Sep 20, 2017 4:42pm Sep 20, 2017 4:42pm
Quoting havo
mm.. lets go step by step lol {quote} First, you just can not compare range with regular candlesticks, you need to see 1 or the other or your gona get lost thats why you are getting confused {quote} Context its where you are standing right now (or the candles in this case) vs the "wth" its going on (price stalled? going up?,down?) or in other words, where its the price right now vs what its going on (moving somewhere or stalled). 1.- Context (trending, price stalled/ranging) 2.- Level (a point where the price could turn the other way) can...
.. its hard to follow all those hints man, especially when we dont even know what you re talking about. Why not show a couple charts so we'll be sure that we re speaking all the same language.
  • #457
  • Sep 20, 2017 6:11pm Sep 20, 2017 6:11pm
Quoting havo
mm.. lets go step by step lol ......
Dear Havo, when using Range Bars, how much is the pips setting do you use?

Thanks in advanced
  • #458
  • Sep 20, 2017 6:57pm Sep 20, 2017 6:57pm
THINK ABOUT THIS VERY CAREFULLY:

Since range bars the body its the same in EVERY CANDLE (body + wick if there its any) a rejection its clearly shown.. the stronger the rejection the smaller the body.. the bigger the imbalance.. the stronger the move if it past certain point (thats why you need to wait for it to shown) the higher the hit rate.. the happier you are, the fatter your account, etc etc (LOL)


" AND EDGE WITHIN A CANDLESTICK... " think... ohhh ahhhh ("dagoods" pick your nose with the image in this post)

and AGAIN, i dont want to sound like a smart ass, douchebag or anything; you have to think about it, understand it THEN i will help more..

artem_t PMd me early this morning, i explained him and i think he got it, but im not gona spoon feed anyone =) i can help BUT do your gotta do your part
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  • #459
  • Sep 20, 2017 7:36pm Sep 20, 2017 7:36pm
OHLC are just reference points, take away the boxing of price into candlestick, range bar etc and trying to study price movement along y-axis. Price only moves up and down. Mundane but powerful statement, it changed my approach to markets completely
  • #460
  • Sep 20, 2017 7:43pm Sep 20, 2017 7:43pm
What we as traders must try to understand, is why was candlestick created?
When this is answered the confinement of price to time bars will become allien to a traders, and the journey to understand the true nature of the market starts.
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