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  • #9,041
  • Sep 10, 2017 4:53am Sep 10, 2017 4:53am
Quoting verv
IMO Jesus was not a socialist by any common definition of the word. How much money did Jesus take from others? How many times did he force people to do something without their consent? I'm an unadulterated capitalist, but I am not materialistic in any way.
That's funny
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #9,042
  • Sep 10, 2017 6:08am Sep 10, 2017 6:08am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} That's funny
Lol. Capitalism is simply voluntary exchange. Consumerism, greed etc are individual choicies. I dress like a tramp for example, I even embarrass myself sometimes lol.
  • #9,043
  • Edited Sep 11, 2017 12:25am Sep 10, 2017 7:19am | Edited Sep 11, 2017 12:25am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} It is off the "This is ....." album. I especially like the audio clips out of the movie "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly", even though they I don't remember any machine gun sequences therefrom.... Strangely, I listened to E=MC2 again and now find it rather bland.
"and known as the rat" I don't know if that was from the same song, but on one of those songs on the same album was always my favorite. Funny I too find it rather bland as well after listening to it some recently. The Clash, Mick Jones and Joey Strummer spin off are mentioned quite a few times when talking about commercialism and post modernism of music, now I know why. Still, the Clash still rocks!
  • #9,044
  • Sep 10, 2017 7:22am Sep 10, 2017 7:22am
Quoting verv
{quote} Lol. Capitalism is simply voluntary exchange. Consumerism, greed etc are individual choicies. I dress like a tramp for example, I even embarrass myself sometimes lol.
Hey Verve!

Tell us something about yourself! Like what is your passion outside of your occupation? Or a favorite hobby or sport you indulge in? Collect anything like antiques? Curious minds what to put some face to the character of you!
  • #9,045
  • Edited 8:43am Sep 10, 2017 8:32am | Edited 8:43am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Crucifixion was at the time Rome's capital punishment so the fact that Jesus happened to be one of it's victims was in some way of one falling through the cracks and getting rid of controversy without regards to due process. (Not that there was such a thing back then) Ultimately IMO it was the jews, as Jesus himself was a jew that betrayed him. It was their actions in end that led to Jesus being put on the cross. Funny to this day, jewish orthodox don't recognize Jesus or the new testament which I also find interesting.
The orthodox Jews do not recognize either because they believe that Jesus was a politician more than anything else. There is evidence to support that in the bible. The Jewish leadership( Zionists of their day) wanted to get Jesus in trouble with Rome because he was disrupting things like the Sabbath, and traditional punishments, and how the temples got money. He was disrupting the bottom line. Now, here comes Pilate, and he asks bluntly, "are you the king of the Jews".? An affirmative answer would be a capital crime for obvious reasons in the empire. But Jesus was sarcastic and said, "so you say". Pilate decides to let the Jews have their "king". At which point the Jews should have stoned him. But he wound up on a cross instead. Why is this? Why would the Romans say," we can't be bothered", and the Jews decide to adopt a Roman form of capital punishment? Furthermore, the story goes on to say that a Roman centurion poked his side. Why is this?? It submit to you Dr. M. that it is because the Romans are the one who had him put to death.

Even Jesus himself, according to one of the stories, says that he who has not sinned cast the first STONE. Jesus did not say he who has sinned first drive the first nail.

The Romans killed him. The Jewish leadership may be accessories to the fact, but the Romans are the ones who killed him. They became convinced that they should stop this before it starts. I bet if Jesus had heard of Bob Marley or this excellent cover by Eric Clapton, this is what he would have said to his apostles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRgcwT9X2J8

Man, I wish this on some Law and Order show! I know we will not agree on this one, but I wanted to lay out my case.

Quoting verv
{quote} Coercion: 'the action or practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.' Is it coercion? Christians I thought considered that a statement of fact. Atheists would consider that a lie. I always worked on the assumption that belief in Jesus was not forced.
Nope, belief in Jesus is not forced....However......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ8hefESt7c

Quoting Mingary
99 % of the Jesus story was made up circa year 320 (Emperor Constantine the Great (306–337 AD) Constantine needed to turn a popular apocalyptic belief (i.e. the world will end soon) into a state religion to enthral the masses .. Power, authority and control. Nothing new really ...
Maybe. Even so, it is pretty good reading. Lot's to learn in that book. No God? Okay? I prefer Pascal's wager.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #9,046
  • Sep 10, 2017 10:01am Sep 10, 2017 10:01am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} Constantine didn't last long, huh?
Emperor for 30 years .. not a bad stretch.
Certainly enough time to turn Chritianity from a cult of gloom and doom into a State Religion
  • #9,047
  • Edited Sep 11, 2017 12:29am Sep 10, 2017 10:09am | Edited Sep 11, 2017 12:29am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} The orthodox Jews do not recognize either because they believe that Jesus was a politician more than anything else. There is evidence to support that in the bible. The Jewish leadership( Zionists of their day) wanted to get Jesus in trouble with Rome because he was disrupting things like the Sabbath, and traditional punishments, and how the temples got money. He was disrupting the bottom line. Now, here comes Pilate, and he asks bluntly, "are you the king of the Jews".? An affirmative answer would be a capital crime for obvious reasons in...

The physical act yes, the political? It later became political, not only because of the moniker of "King of the Jews, but the most dangerous claim of all, which he claimed to be the "son of God", something both the Romans and the Jews considered Blasphemy and despised at the same time. Anyway, your interpretation is just one of many, and like the three headed monster that probably started out with one head, turned into three heads throughout the centuries of telling the same story only to make it more interesting or for that matter become relevant to the individual perspective telling the story. Like Turis lopping off some Carthaginian's head and bragging about it later that had some form of embellishment to make it sound more interesting to boast about. The point is, even though you claim the Roman's killed Jesus, and that much is true, it was the Jews that made it possible. You can't have one without the other, and therefore both were equally culpable for Jesus's ultimate demise. The one claim you make though as Jesus being a politician is a hard concept to swallow and will have to ferment on that thought for a while before I can have a proper response to that one.
  • #9,048
  • Sep 10, 2017 10:11am Sep 10, 2017 10:11am
https://youtu.be/P7FrBYi8pKA
  • #9,049
  • Sep 10, 2017 11:24am Sep 10, 2017 11:24am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Maybe. Even so, it is pretty good reading. Lot's to learn in that book. No God? Okay? I prefer Pascal's wager.
Pascal's wager uses faulty logic.

I prefer this quote (wrongly attributed to Marcus Aurelius)
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

Surely the abrahamic god falls into the " If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them" category
  • #9,050
  • Sep 10, 2017 11:33am Sep 10, 2017 11:33am
Few things wind me up as much as this.

This is wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-41213534
  • #9,051
  • Sep 10, 2017 10:54pm Sep 10, 2017 10:54pm
Quoting verv
Few things wind me up as much as this. This is wrong. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-41213534
Unreal
  • #9,052
  • Sep 10, 2017 11:44pm Sep 10, 2017 11:44pm
Quoting verv
{quote} Lol. Capitalism is simply voluntary exchange. Consumerism, greed etc are individual choicies. I dress like a tramp for example, I even embarrass myself sometimes lol.
I see we have quite a lot in common. However it appears to me, and I have a similar interest, that Capitalism is all about employing one's money to make more money ... and that is definitely materialistic.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #9,053
  • Sep 10, 2017 11:59pm Sep 10, 2017 11:59pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Emperor for 30 years .. not a bad stretch. Certainly enough time to turn Chritianity from a cult of gloom and doom into a State Religion
Right. I misunderstood the dates as his life span rather than his period in power......
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #9,054
  • Sep 11, 2017 12:10am Sep 11, 2017 12:10am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Pascal's wager uses faulty logic. I prefer this quote (wrongly attributed to Marcus Aurelius) “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” Surely the abrahamic god falls into the " If there are gods, but unjust, then...
There are more people alive today than the total of all who have ever lived before. If there is reincarnation, maybe even time and time again, the majority of us must be new souls.
  • #9,055
  • Edited 1:40am Sep 11, 2017 12:32am | Edited 1:40am
Quoting verv
Few things wind me up as much as this. This is wrong. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-41213534

This is sickening and someone needs to throw the book at these people! In other words they need to be stopped and more people need to step out, step up, stop being cowards and protest this insanity!
  • #9,056
  • Edited 1:42am Sep 11, 2017 12:36am | Edited 1:42am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} I see we have quite a lot in common. However it appears to me, and I have a similar interest, that Capitalism is all about employing one's money to make more money ... and that is definitely materialistic.

Materialistic has many definitions. In the more basic and generalized sense we are all materialistic to some degree. Where the definition changes is when one is consumed with it to make up for other character deficiencies that some try to mask. I know a few rich people obsessed with name brands, and consumerism of shopping till they drop as they seem to think it is a source for happiness. Although, that is short lived hence the need for more.
  • #9,057
  • Sep 11, 2017 12:36am Sep 11, 2017 12:36am
Quoting Exodus
...and especially for Stu ( I quite like it actually ) https://youtu.be/9EcjWd-O4jI ...and one of my favourite loony tracks, from the 80s https://youtu.be/BD2kWCfTcaU
I remember the band but not the track B.A.D. Think I may have stumbled and fumbled to "Pump Up The Jam"
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #9,058
  • Sep 11, 2017 12:41am Sep 11, 2017 12:41am
Quoting spzd
Yeah I know...but sometimes you just stumble on things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yesyhQkYrQM
Great Track.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #9,059
  • Sep 11, 2017 12:54am Sep 11, 2017 12:54am
Quoting jen101
{quote} There are more people alive today than the total of all who have ever lived before.
I do not believe that statement. We have no knowledge of all the previous civilisations that may have existed, how populous they were or what killed them off. The Aztecs are an example, except that 'we' know about them. If you examine Africa there are many examples of children who never make it as far as adulthood and who therefore do not reproduce. A typical couple may have 8 children, and of those 2 or 3 survive to be adults. In our western civilisation (an oxymoron) almost all children live to be adults, but that was not always the case.

Recently a footprint was discovered which had to be more than 1 million years old. It had to be that age because that was the age of the rock in which it was found. On that basis where were the people who made the footprint? ...and I had not heard of this one.
http://www.disclose.tv/news/290_million_year_old_human_footprint_found_in_new_mexico/116651

Obviously there is plenty of room for scepticism.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #9,060
  • Sep 11, 2017 1:00am Sep 11, 2017 1:00am
Quoting jen101
{quote} There are more people alive today than the total of all who have ever lived before. If there is reincarnation, maybe even time and time again, the majority of us must be new souls.
This is a common misconception.;
The opposite is true.
Notwithstanding the fact that it's mathematically impossible (i.e more people alive today than the total of all who have ever lived before), the best scientific estimate shows that around 100 billion humans have died already.
We are all living on top of a huge cemetery .. (:
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