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  • #21
  • Sep 7, 2017 5:39am Sep 7, 2017 5:39am
That sucks, hope you didn't lose too much. Someone said the entire move happened in a couple seconds. If its a market order they're supposed to get you out at the available price.
  • #22
  • Sep 7, 2017 6:01am Sep 7, 2017 6:01am
Quoting arh1109
That sucks, hope you didn't lose too much. Someone said the entire move happened in a couple seconds. If its a market order they're supposed to get you out at the available price.
In my case the broker got into a sell trade 238 pips below the stop order I had placed. I'm now sitting with a huge loss and they say that's standard practice
  • #23
  • Sep 7, 2017 8:13am Sep 7, 2017 8:13am
Most Brokers, state in their client agreements that they cannot be held responsible for losses occurred during your trading activity including news trading. The way I see it, your only chance to get a refund is if for example the broker or its Liquidity provider experienced some technical issue and streamed some off- market / non-existing quotes.
  • #24
  • Sep 8, 2017 5:27am Sep 8, 2017 5:27am
News trading is risky as the market becomes more unpredictable at the news release so i usually avoid trading during the said period.
  • #25
  • Sep 8, 2017 6:03am Sep 8, 2017 6:03am
Quoting jollypk
News trading is risky as the market becomes more unpredictable at the news release so i usually avoid trading during the said period.
Yeah, I usually avoid it too but I goofed up and forgot about this one. I entered the trade about 15 mins beforehand not realizing it was coming. Rookie mistake.
  • #26
  • Sep 8, 2017 6:21am Sep 8, 2017 6:21am
Nico,

Just be careful with having a live account with this Broker .. i have seen some very funny data off .. case in point, see below. Other broker did not have that kind of move .. very very odd ..

https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...3&d=1503989132



Quoting Nico1359
So, today I did something a little bone-headed -- namely, I was long USD/CAD without realizing that a rate announcement was forthcoming. I had a 13 pip stop loss in place that was completely blown through and got slipped nearly 200 pips. The gap (where there's obviously no liquidity to fill my stop order) went for about 100 pips, but then price resumed at 1.2306. However, my stop didn't get filled until 1.2201 Do I have a legit case of getting a partial refund or no? {image}
  • #27
  • Sep 8, 2017 7:34am Sep 8, 2017 7:34am
Quoting Danku
Nico, Just be careful with having a live account with this Broker .. i have seen some very funny data off .. case in point, see below. Other broker did not have that kind of move .. very very odd .. https://www.forexfactory.com/attachm...3&d=1503989132 {quote}
Yeah, I know. That was on Aug 29th and they sent out a mass email to all their clients saying that there was bad quotes from a liquidity provider and they were refunding traders who were affected.
  • #28
  • Edited Sep 9, 2017 4:08am Sep 8, 2017 11:46am | Edited Sep 9, 2017 4:08am
Quoting Nico1359
{quote} Yeah, I usually avoid it too but I goofed up and forgot about this one. I entered the trade about 15 mins beforehand not realizing it was coming. Rookie mistake.

IMO the rookie mistake is that
1 u use tight stops
2 u trade counter-trend
3 u don't understand that spread plays a role when you open and close a position
4 u choose to trade with a small undercapitalized broker
5 u blame the broker and ask for a refund
  • #29
  • Edited 4:21pm Sep 8, 2017 3:50pm | Edited 4:21pm
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} IMO the rookie mistake is that 1 u use tight stops 2 u trade counter-trend 3 u don't understand that spread plays a role when you open and close a position and 4 brokers play no role and have no interest in widening the spread so much. so you should not blame the broker but yourself for your ignorance.
Yeah but the broker didn't really have to widen the spread THAT much comparing to other brokers who quoted the price for the same pair during the same period. If Nico had traded with a different broker other than Trader's Way, his loss would've been smaller for the same mistake he made because his stop-loss would've been filled earlier when the price was more favourable to him. That's the problem.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #30
  • Sep 8, 2017 5:25pm Sep 8, 2017 5:25pm
Quoting HeyYou
Probaly it was due to a major spread widening. as you see I closed at 1.21702 which means I made 200 pipsbut my profit is $150 instead of $180. Not that I care much... {image}
Nothing to do with wider spread. The UsdCad pip value for your lot size is 0.82 $/pip. ( not 90 cents/per pip)!

Can take this calculator for reference, or any that matter...
http://www.fxpro.co.uk/trading/calculators/pip#
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #31
  • Sep 8, 2017 5:39pm Sep 8, 2017 5:39pm
Actually important thing with this news was it was unexpected rate change, and reaction was very panicky probably by high frequency robots.
I trade it from the long side, right after the news...on another pair, GCad...
Exactly 5 sec after news I buy 350 pips lower....another account I copied my trade to got 1 sec delay and 46 pips negative pips slippage vs my price!! Is the price moved ( already) up 46 pips in 1 sec!!!
These as market orders!!

Your SL is not a market order, so, broker virtually has a bit more delay once the price hit it to become market order and close.
Not a big deal at quieter, normal market conditions, but in this case the when the first 4 second made a total move of approx 300 pips, that is average market speed of 75/sec!
2 sec execution indeed can end up with that close.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #32
  • Sep 8, 2017 5:48pm Sep 8, 2017 5:48pm
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: no gap.png Size: 24 KB


My advice stay away from this broker
atheer1
  • #33
  • Sep 8, 2017 8:54pm Sep 8, 2017 8:54pm
Quoting profitfarmer
Exactly 5 sec after news I buy 350 pips lower....another account I copied my trade to got 1 sec delay and 46 pips negative pips slippage vs my price!! Is the price moved ( already) up 46 pips in 1 sec!!! These as market orders!! Your SL is not a market order, so, broker virtually has a bit more delay once the price hit it to become market order and close. Not a big deal at quieter, normal market conditions, but in this case the when the first 4 second made a total move of approx 300 pips, that is average market speed of 75/sec! 2 sec execution indeed...
Market order is EXACTLY the kind of order that gets slipped the most because it's the order type that gets filled at whatever is the immediate market price so in very rapid market, if the market price dropped 600 pips before your market order is executed, then your market order would get slipped 600 pips.

SL order is exactly a type of market order and that's why it's so vulnerable to huge slippages during fast market because once the stop-loss level is hit, if the market price moved further away by x number of pips then your stop-loss order is going to be filled at x number of pips away from your stop-loss level. To avoid getting slipped, the order type to use stop-limit order which is a limit order that gets sent to the market once your stop-loss level is breached. It protects you from getting slipped but you run the risk of your order never getting executed thus exposing you to further huge losses.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #34
  • Edited 10:44pm Sep 8, 2017 10:27pm | Edited 10:44pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} Nothing to do with wider spread. The UsdCad pip value for your lot size is 0.82 $/pip. ( not 90 cents/per pip)! Can take this calculator for reference, or any that matter... http://www.fxpro.co.uk/trading/calculators/pip#
I made a quick calculation.. OK the actual profit would be $164 not $180.. 164-150= around 17 pips of spread.


Quote
Yeah but the broker didn't really have to widen the spread THAT much comparing to other brokers who quoted the price for the same pair during the same period. If Nico had traded with a different broker other than Trader's Way, his loss would've been smaller for the same mistake he made because his stop-loss would've been filled earlier when the price was more favourable to him. That's the problem.

well if you use an unknown/unregulated broker with headquarters in the "commonwealth of Dominica" you can expect everything. just don't ever expect a refund
  • #35
  • Sep 8, 2017 10:32pm Sep 8, 2017 10:32pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} Market order is EXACTLY the kind of order that gets slipped the most because it's the order type that gets filled at whatever is the immediate market price so in very rapid market, if the market price dropped 600 pips before your market order is executed, then your market order would get slipped 600 pips. SL order is exactly a type of market order and that's why it's so vulnerable to huge slippages during fast market because once the stop-loss level is hit, if the market price moved further away by x number of pips then your stop-loss order...

Stop limit orders wonīt help much with spiking prices... Probably you just get loss over whole spike... Afterwards, if price starts to go to your destination, you will be stopped out...
  • #36
  • Sep 9, 2017 8:46pm Sep 9, 2017 8:46pm
On the issue of the CAD pairs its harder to trade than most other pairs since it should be called the CAD/OIL instead
since its driven mainly my oil market and less so than the CAD economy....But the bigger mistake is in not understanding how to trade the CAD.

AS the trader did accept it was rooky mistake its all good .

Lets keep learning!
  • #37
  • Sep 9, 2017 9:48pm Sep 9, 2017 9:48pm
Quoting Mysteeri
{quote} Stop limit orders wonīt help much with spiking prices... Probably you just get loss over whole spike... Afterwards, if price starts to go to your destination, you will be stopped out...
No stop-limit would just allow your order to be stopped out at exactly your stop-limit price or better (if your broker is an ECN broker and allows you positive slippages) but NOT worse if the price spikes passing than your stop-limit level so it would be EXACTLY helping you with spiking prices when the price just spiked up/down pass your stop-limit level and then returns. I will illustrate to you with Nico1359's trade from his original post that started this thread:

In stop-limit orders, that are TWO prices you need to set, a stop-loss price and a limit price because a stop-limit order is a stop-loss market + limit order. A stop-loss price is when the order is going to be triggered and a limit price is the worst price that you would accept for the trade to be taken out. Just take this current example with the USD/CAD, Nico1359 was long at 1.2409 with a stop-loss order with a stop-loss level at 1.2396 . That stop-loss order at 1.2396 just tells the market (or the market maker in that case) to take out the trade at the immediate price when the price drops below 1.2396 and if you look at the chart, the trade should've been taken out at 1.2306 or maybe a bit lower but due to the "rapid market movement", Trader's Way just couldn't take out that trade until the price dropped to 1.22, losing another 100 pips.

Now if Nico1359 had set up a stop-limit order, his trade would've actually had a chance to be taken out at 1.23xx or at least not at 1.22. Here is how. In addition to the stop-loss price of 1.2396, he would add a limit price of 1.2300 and what this tells the market to do is this: If the price drops below 1.2396 this trade is to be closed but ONLY at price of 1.2300 or higher. If the price drops below 1.2300, the trade is NOT to be closed but left open. And this is what would happen. The stop-limit order would be triggered as soon as the price dropped below 1.2396 and then if there was a price better or at 1.2300, the trade would've been closed so indeed Nico1359 would've just incurred a 13-pip loss, exactly or close to what he's intended. But in this case unfortunately there was no price at 1.2396 after the stop-loss is triggered, according to the chart, the next best price was at 1.23064 and since that price is still better than the limit price of 1.2300, the trade would've been closed at 1.23064 (or maybe a little bit lower) because there was no more gaps but a solid candle which means there were trades and that trade could've been closed. So Nico1359 was right that at worst situation, the trade should've been closed at 1.23064 or just a little bit lower but that is if the order was a stop-limit order and NOT a stop-loss order. And if the price spikes down further past 1.2300, the limit price let's say to 1.21xx like in the chart, then the trade would not be closed and then when the price spiked back up, the trade would only be closed if the price is above or at 1.2300 but still below 1.2396 thus the trade is protected from with any price spikes. So in this case, let's Trader's Way just absolutely refused to fill Nico1359 on any price above or at 1.2300, with the price going down further, the trade would still be open and would've been closed at currently 1.2220 or at 1.2235 earlier, still better than 1.2201, the price chosen by the broker to close the trade at.

The only problem with the stop-limit order is if the price never spiked up after spiking down but actually continued to spike down further, then with the trade not closed, nico could have faced a larger loss than what is now because the stop-limit order would get the trade closed as long as the price is not at the limit price or better. That is the only risk with the stop-limit order.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #38
  • Sep 10, 2017 12:39am Sep 10, 2017 12:39am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} No stop-limit would just allow your order to be stopped out at exactly your stop-limit price or better (if your broker is an ECN broker and allows you positive slippages) but NOT worse if the price spikes passing than your stop-limit level so it would be EXACTLY helping you with spiking prices when the price just spiked up/down pass your stop-limit level and then returns. I will illustrate to you with Nico1359's trade from his original post that started this thread: In stop-limit orders, that are TWO prices you need to set, a stop-loss price...

Hi!

Thatīs what I mean.
Stop limit order doesnīt guarantee anything... if price spikes down, and never retrace, you will be making way bigger loss than you would with normal sl order... If price however starts to spike up again, you probably would get better closing price monitoring trade manually than with limit stop.
Using limit stop orders is just gambling on possibility that price will retrace, putting your equity on high risk.

On the other hand, you may use stop limit orders at entries, since you will always get at the price you expected, but it is possible that you miss the whole trade, if momentum is high.


Also solid candle does not guarantee that execution would have been made. Liquidity is another aspect, maybe there was only buyers for 0,01 lot etc..
  • #39
  • Sep 10, 2017 11:20am Sep 10, 2017 11:20am
Quoting Mysteeri
{quote} Hi! Thatīs what I mean. Stop limit order doesnīt guarantee anything... if price spikes down, and never retrace, you will be making way bigger loss than you would with normal sl order... If price however starts to spike up again, you probably would get better closing price monitoring trade manually than with limit stop. Using limit stop orders is just gambling on possibility that price will retrace, putting your equity on high risk. On the other hand, you may use stop limit orders at entries, since you will always get at the price you expected,...
Ok thanks for clarifying. Usually I just use limit orders for entry. There is no difference whether an order is triggered or not if it's not going to be executed.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #40
  • Sep 10, 2017 11:54am Sep 10, 2017 11:54am
Quoting Nico1359
So, today I did something a little bone-headed -- namely, I was long USD/CAD without realizing that a rate announcement was forthcoming. I had a 13 pip stop loss in place that was completely blown through and got slipped nearly 200 pips. The gap (where there's obviously no liquidity to fill my stop order) went for about 100 pips, but then price resumed at 1.2306. However, my stop didn't get filled until 1.2201 Do I have a legit case of getting a partial refund or no? {image}
No, and they should not provide a refund. But, just curious: under different circumstances, would you be contacting your broker to offer them money back, due to an error on your part that resulting in you making money?
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