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Do Brokers Ever Give Refunds For This?

  • #1
  • First Post: Sep 6, 2017 5:52pm Sep 6, 2017 5:52pm
So, today I did something a little bone-headed -- namely, I was long USD/CAD without realizing that a rate announcement was forthcoming. I had a 13 pip stop loss in place that was completely blown through and got slipped nearly 200 pips. The gap (where there's obviously no liquidity to fill my stop order) went for about 100 pips, but then price resumed at 1.2306. However, my stop didn't get filled until 1.2201

Do I have a legit case of getting a partial refund or no?
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  • #2
  • Sep 6, 2017 7:00pm Sep 6, 2017 7:00pm
Quoting Nico1359
So, today I did something a little bone-headed -- namely, I was long USD/CAD without realizing that a rate announcement was forthcoming. I had a 13 pip stop loss in place that was completely blown through and got slipped nearly 200 pips. The gap (where there's obviously no liquidity to fill my stop order) went for about 100 pips, but then price resumed at 1.2306. However, my stop didn't get filled until 1.2201 Do I have a legit case of getting a partial refund or no? {image}
No, to them this is just normal slippage during volatile market condition. During major news time, they get a free pass to charge you whatever slippage they want and they usually advise you this on their websites so no they won't consider giving you any refunds. Sorry.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #3
  • Sep 6, 2017 7:16pm Sep 6, 2017 7:16pm
That is one big gap!
What I find interesting is that none of my 3 broker's USDCAD charts had a gap on today's move.
Not even on the 1 minute charts. My stop was triggered without slippage.
Food for thought...
  • #4
  • Sep 6, 2017 7:31pm Sep 6, 2017 7:31pm
Quoting symona
That is one big gap! What I find interesting is that none of my 3 broker's USDCAD charts had a gap on today's move. Not even on the 1 minute charts. My stop was triggered without slippage. Food for thought...
That's because spot fx is traded OTC NOT on a central exchange where there is ONE price for each fx pair across the world and everybody trades at that price. Spot FX is traded OTC so each broker is free to set whatever price it wants to trade with you so each broker's price is different.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #5
  • Sep 6, 2017 7:34pm Sep 6, 2017 7:34pm
I think I know that brother. I have been trading forex for years.
What I was implying is that his broker milked him!
Sad...
  • #6
  • Edited 9:55pm Sep 6, 2017 7:51pm | Edited 9:55pm
Quoting symona
I think I know that brother. I have been trading forex for years. What I was implying is that his broker milked him! Sad...
I know I feel bad for him too but that's what happens with Spot FX trading being traded OTC where the price of the instrument being traded is supposed to be negotiated between the buyer and the seller but only to be non-existent due to the extremely unequal financial power of the brokers and the retail traders; broker is the price setter and the retail traders are the ones on the other side being the price takers. And this unequal price relationship does not just exist between brokers and retail traders, it's also the same thing between the "Big Banks" LP's and the brokers for those brokers who REALLY have their trades executed by the LP's only that the brokers in this case would turn around be the price takers and those "Big Banks" LP's are the price setters. The whole retail spot fx industry is one big food chain with the retail forex traders being at the very bottom when retail traders are supposed to benefit the most from this arrangement.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #7
  • Edited 8:59pm Sep 6, 2017 8:36pm | Edited 8:59pm
Quoting symona
That is one big gap! What I find interesting is that none of my 3 broker's USDCAD charts had a gap on today's move. Not even on the 1 minute charts. My stop was triggered without slippage. Food for thought...
The other explanation is because I am trading on an ECN. If you're not trading on an ECN platform then, no, you wouldn't have a gap because a non-ECN essentially has virtual liquidity. An ECN is directly dependent on their network of liquidity providers. If the LPs withdraw at a certain point in the market then the order has to be filled at the next best price. It's essentially the difference between market execution (ECN) and instant execution (non-ECN).

I imagine their explanation will be something of the sort.

Sigh.
  • #8
  • Sep 6, 2017 10:13pm Sep 6, 2017 10:13pm
Quoting Nico1359
{quote} The other explanation is because I am trading on an ECN. If you're not trading on an ECN platform then, no, you wouldn't have a gap because a non-ECN essentially has virtual liquidity. An ECN is directly dependent on their network of liquidity providers. If the LPs withdraw at a certain point in the market then the order has to be filled at the next best price. It's essentially the difference between market execution (ECN) and instant execution (non-ECN). I imagine their explanation will be something of the sort. Sigh.
No they won't even bother to give you that explanation. They will just simply tell you it's the market. That's it.

But just to call on their ECN bulls*** story. You know it's the opposite right? The ONLY reason why you got hit with that free-falling slippage quote was EXACTLY because you only had ONE counterparty on the other side of your transaction, the broker and the broker has, like symona said, milked you for all the profit it can get. If your broker had REALLY been an ECN broker, with everybody including all the "Big Bank" LP's routing the trades to it so EVEN IF one LP decided to be an a** and post a ridiculous quote with outrageous slippages during an extremely volatile news event, that quote wouldn't show up at all on the trading platform since everybody trades on the best bid (lowest bid) and best ask (highest ask) and that quote would be WAY out of the best bid/best ask range so how could you get hit on that outrageous quote that's WAY outside of the market? LOL

Regarding the LP's withdrawing at a certain point though, the broker might be right though because the LP's DO screw the brokers also with exactly the same "last look", requoting crap that the market making brokers pull on retail traders because to those "Big Bank" LP's, your broker is really the retail trader. But under an ECN, the LP's would be expected to post FIRM quotes which means once they quote it, they have to stand by it and execute all the quantity of orders up to their quote size. They are only allowed to change their quote when their quote size is taken. So again, the reason why you got a bad fill was precisely you weren't trading in an ECN environment.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #9
  • Sep 6, 2017 10:23pm Sep 6, 2017 10:23pm
Quoting Nico1359
{quote} The other explanation is because I am trading on an ECN. If you're not trading on an ECN platform then, no, you wouldn't have a gap because a non-ECN essentially has virtual liquidity. An ECN is directly dependent on their network of liquidity providers. If the LPs withdraw at a certain point in the market then the order has to be filled at the next best price. It's essentially the difference between market execution (ECN) and instant execution (non-ECN). I imagine their explanation will be something of the sort. Sigh.
OMG!! And I just noticed you are trading with Trader's Way? We just had a bit of a heated discussion about their recent huge price spikes that they again claimed was caused by this LP putting in wrong quote. LOL There were even ppl related to Traders's Way posting in that thread pretending to be Trader's Way customers to shill for the broker. https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=695048. I thought I recognize those price slippage "signature moves" by that broker when you described how your stop-loss was slipped so much.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #10
  • Sep 6, 2017 10:26pm Sep 6, 2017 10:26pm
Perhaps you should be asking traders-way and not forex factory. My experience with them has been quite good. If they will not offer you a refund, they will (in my experience) explain to you exactly why they wont, and point you to their web-page that tells you whether or not the issue is covered. I will admit thought, I have not been in your particular situation.

recently they did fire a liquidity provider that was posting inaccurate quotes (you should have gotten an email about this like I did) and they made all accounts right...whether the account was positive or negative due to the misquotes. Perhaps you fall under that umbrella. Regardless, you're asking the right questions- but to the wrong people.

Ask Trader's Way and update this thread on the result (with their answer/explanation)- then we'll know if they are full of sh*t or not. That will also provide good information to others (like myself) that have accounts with them or are thinking about accounts with them.
  • #11
  • Sep 6, 2017 10:35pm Sep 6, 2017 10:35pm
Quoting Tradingwithw
Perhaps you should be asking traders-way and not forex factory. My experience with them has been quite good. If they will not offer you a refund, they will (in my experience) explain to you exactly why they wont, and point you to their web-page that tells you whether or not the issue is covered. recently they did fire a liquidity provider that was posting inaccurate quotes (you should have gotten an email about this like I did) and they made all accounts right...whether the account was positive or negative due to the misquotes. Perhaps you fall...
First of all, the LP that they "fired" is probably one of their own subsidiary posing as a "liquidity provider" providing the quotes for Trader's Way to trade against their own clients. And second, the way they "adjusted" the accounts did NOT make things right for all accounts. They just re-opened/closed all of the trades with a new made-up price that's more favourable to them but at the same turned many of the profitable trades into losses so they wouldn't have to pay up.

But this situation is different. This is just widening the spreads on purpose during so called "news event" to milk more profit from the traders. And unfortunately all market-making brokers do that and their explanation like I said before would be just "It's the market. The market moved too fast and that's the best price we could give you" when they themselves were really the market. But I would be interested to hear how their explanation too.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #12
  • Sep 6, 2017 10:42pm Sep 6, 2017 10:42pm
Quoting Tradingwithw
Perhaps you should be asking traders-way and not forex factory. My experience with them has been quite good. If they will not offer you a refund, they will (in my experience) explain to you exactly why they wont, and point you to their web-page that tells you whether or not the issue is covered. I will admit thought, I have not been in your particular situation. recently they did fire a liquidity provider that was posting inaccurate quotes (you should have gotten an email about this like I did) and they made all accounts right...whether the account...
Yes, I sent them an email earlier today... just wanted to get some FF members thoughts as well.

I will update this when I get a response.
  • #13
  • Sep 6, 2017 10:46pm Sep 6, 2017 10:46pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} First of all, the LP that they "fired" is probably one of their own subsidiary posing as a "liquidity provider" providing the quotes for Trader's Way to trade against their own clients. And second, the way they "adjusted" the accounts did NOT make things right for all accounts. They just re-opened/closed all of the trades with a new made-up price that's more favourable to them but at the same turned many of the profitable trades into losses so they wouldn't have to pay up. But this situation is different. This is just widening the spreads...
You seem to have a vendetta against them for no reason. Reading the other thread, you're head-hunting them....yet they credited the original posters account and made everything right....even after that in here and in the other thread you are still upset.....is there something more to what you're saying or are you simply just assuming that trader's way is out to screw everyone?
  • #14
  • Sep 6, 2017 10:54pm Sep 6, 2017 10:54pm
Quoting Tradingwithw
{quote} You seem to have a vendetta against them for no reason. Reading the other thread, you're head-hunting them....yet they credited the original posters account and made everything right....even after that in here and in the other thread you are still upset.....is there something more to what you're saying or are you simply just assuming that trader's way is out to screw everyone?
How do you know they credited the original poster account? WHERE did you get that information? I didn't see the OP posting any of his account statements showing that he got credited only one more customer of Trader's Way at the end posting that he always got delayed execution on all of the trades sometimes up to several minutes in the other thread.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #15
  • Sep 6, 2017 11:00pm Sep 6, 2017 11:00pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} How do you know they credited the original poster account? WHERE did you get that information? I didn't see the OP posting any of his account statements showing that he got credited only one more customer of Trader's Way at the end posting that he always got delayed execution on all of the trades sometimes up to several minutes in the other thread.
My apologies, you are correct- the OP never posted anything regarding his account because there was nothing to credit. It's a demo.

I meant cryptosurf, linked below.

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...1#post10250601

Anyway, I'm over the witch hunt- good luck Nico, looking forward to seeing how your situation is resolved (hopefully it is!). My pracitise has been to deposit and withdraw some negligible and immediate profits with brokers to check whether or not they are legitimate (TW passed this test, via epayments). Even still- other than Oanda (I'm USA) I don't trust more than 2.5k deposit with an off shores broker. Perhaps you will benefit from adopting the same rules
  • #16
  • Sep 6, 2017 11:05pm Sep 6, 2017 11:05pm
Quoting Tradingwithw
{quote} My apologies, you are correct- the OP never posted anything regarding his account because there was nothing to credit. It's a demo. I meant cryptosurf, linked below. https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...1#post10250601 Anyway, I'm over the witch hunt- good luck Nico, looking forward to seeing how your situation is resolved (hopefully it is!). My pracitise has been to deposit and withdraw some negligible and immediate profits with brokers to check whether or not they are legitimate (TW passed this test, via epayments)....
Emails typed in italics by the poster would NOT count as official emails by the broker. And all it said was it was corrected; it did NOT mention any "credits".
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #17
  • Sep 6, 2017 11:08pm Sep 6, 2017 11:08pm
Quoting Tradingwithw
{quote} My apologies, you are correct- the OP never posted anything regarding his account because there was nothing to credit. It's a demo. I meant cryptosurf, linked below. https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...1#post10250601 Anyway, I'm over the witch hunt- good luck Nico, looking forward to seeing how your situation is resolved (hopefully it is!). My pracitise has been to deposit and withdraw some negligible and immediate profits with brokers to check whether or not they are legitimate (TW passed this test, via epayments)....
So WHY don't you just open accounts with Oanda since you are already demo'ing with them? WHY do you want to defend Trader's Way and accuse others of having vendetta against it? I was discussing how non-ECN brokers operate in general and it was only later that i discovered that Nico's account was with Trader's Way as well.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #18
  • Sep 6, 2017 11:22pm Sep 6, 2017 11:22pm
At least with dukascopy charts (which show tick charts) the first tick was about 100 pips below where price started falling.. I think that is quite near your gap... The whole drop was over in just a couple of seconds, so there are not very many options to mm broker to get stop order filled..Limit order sure would have been filled with positive slippage(at least with ecn ).
  • #19
  • Sep 6, 2017 11:48pm Sep 6, 2017 11:48pm
Quoting Tradingwithw
{quote}Anyway, I'm over the witch hunt- good luck Nico, looking forward to seeing how your situation is resolved (hopefully it is!). My pracitise has been to deposit and withdraw some negligible and immediate profits with brokers to check whether or not they are legitimate.
Thanks.

I withdrew $200 from them about a month ago and it was a breeze. Customer service has always responded to me. So far I haven't had anything to complain about with them.
  • #20
  • Sep 7, 2017 5:10am Sep 7, 2017 5:10am
Probaly it was due to a major spread widening.
as you see I closed at 1.21702 which means I made 200 pipsbut my profit is $150 instead of $180. Not that I care much...

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