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  • #8,601
  • Edited 4:20pm Aug 27, 2017 4:06pm | Edited 4:20pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} "Since they try to make hitler a right winger" ???? Enjoying that Kool-Aid ? Adolph we hardly knew you (: BTW the extreme right implements the exploitation of man by man, the extreme left is just the opposite.
What part of socialist being left do you not comprehend. Hence hitler was not a right winger.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

"National Socialism is what Marxism might have been if it could have broken its absurd and artificial ties with the democratic order."

"Basically National Socialism and Marxism are the same."

“I have learned a great deal from Marxism” … “as I do not hesitate to admit”

"[My task is to] “convert the German volk (people) to socialism without simply killing off the old individualists”"

"We must “find and travel the road from individualism to socialism without revolution”."

"“What Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism failed to accomplish we shall be in a position to achieve.”"

Not much "right wing" in these hitler quotes.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #8,602
  • Aug 27, 2017 8:07pm Aug 27, 2017 8:07pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Why is Trump making it so easy ? Is that some sort of cunning plan ? And, isn't the "Alt-Right" getting a taste of their own medicine ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w44lApffH30
It looks hopeless doesn't it.

There are stories around that "antifa" and "alt-right" got off the same buses in Charlottesville.
I haven't seen any video evidence.

The organizer of the rally may be a paid provocateur.

http://www.wnd.com/2017/08/setup-man-behind-white-supremacist-rally-supported-obama/
If you are new to FX don"t follow my trades, I 've blown many live accounts
  • #8,603
  • Aug 28, 2017 1:47am Aug 28, 2017 1:47am
Quoting mclon
{quote} It looks hopeless doesn't it. There are stories around that "antifa" and "alt-right" got off the same buses in Charlottesville. I haven't seen any video evidence. The organizer of the rally may be a paid provocateur. http://www.wnd.com/2017/08/setup-man-behind-white-supremacist-rally-supported-obama/
Yes, something like that may be going on... Let's see what happens when the next crisis hits ...
  • #8,604
  • Aug 28, 2017 2:12am Aug 28, 2017 2:12am
Quoting mclon
{quote} I doubt any of the trendy young folks will ask my advice, but if they did I would say: "You could try it, and you might collect your $15-$25-$50(females) hourly rate. But remember some of the bikers at Sturgis are professional criminals and if you fight one, you fight them all. They don't forget and they don't back down." They can't be that stupid.

That is whats so funny about this scenario. Can they be that stupid? Uh yes, I think so! Don't forget you got tribal people as well.
  • #8,605
  • Aug 28, 2017 2:15am Aug 28, 2017 2:15am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} After you filter the bias inherent in the publication, that is correct. But if you do some digging, Lincoln felt that the South would secede no matter what because the abolition of slavery would severely impact their bottom line ( as they admitted themselves). So they did secede, but to invade would make the North look like the aggressors and many in the North were sympathetic to the South. So Lincoln put the South in a situation that they either be cowed, or would fight. They fought. Ultimately, it was the Northern industrial infrastructure...

I am not sure what that means. Perhaps a little context is needed. Also I agree on your perspective on the Civil war, would like to expand on that topic. That is why I asked if you ever read DeLorenzo's book, "The Real Lincoln". Fascinating read.
  • #8,606
  • Edited 4:28am Aug 28, 2017 3:06am | Edited 4:28am
Quoting spzd
{quote} What part of socialist being left do you not comprehend. Hence hitler was not a right winger. "We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions." "National Socialism is what Marxism might have been if it could have broken its absurd and artificial ties with...
Indeed, you are correct.
Expremes tend to all behave the same..
  • #8,607
  • Edited 7:42am Aug 28, 2017 7:19am | Edited 7:42am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Have you read the book "The Real Lincoln" by Thomas DeLorenzo?
I have not, but I am well aware that we were fed propaganda about Lincoln in school since we were in grade school.

Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} I am not sure what that means. Perhaps a little context is needed. Also I agree on your perspective on the Civil war, would like to expand on that topic. That is why I asked if you ever read DeLorenzo's book, "The Real Lincoln". Fascinating read.
Which part was I fuzzy on? I know I tried to say a lot in as few words as possible. I was unaware of this book, but now I have something to chew on. I probably just reinvented the wheel, but it is good to know that a professor shares what is clearly obvious. The Civil War in my view was a staged war. The cotton gin would have eliminated slavery anyway. Of course hindsight is twenty twenty. I will get hold of the book and check it out for sure.

Edit: I think you meant the Event Horizon? What I meant is that your dialogue that you posted is no longer fiction. It is fact that has not played itself out. We are going to have WWIII, there is little we can do about it at this point. At this point we can only hope that it will not be an extinction event for the species.

Quoting verv
Trump pardons 1 person - media shits itself with people calling for impeachment. Obama pardened 212 people - great guy. Supposedly there is no media witch hunt.
Verv, if you are from the UK it is time for you realize that the USA is a corporate entity. Dr. M. and I might start peeling away layers on the onion, but to expect the MSM to tell you anything is comical. I can right now point you to hard left and right sites. Do you know what they agree on? The MSM is full of, uh, bollocks. One more thing, and Jarhead I am sorry if you read this, but they got to him.

When I first came here I was a proud liberal. My circle is very tight and I did not know that I am now a winger. But, then that makes me a Nazi??? See where I am going with this? I am quite sure that my network will suffer soon, but this is the Rabbit Hole, and let's just assume that everything I post going forward is a filthy nasty lie, that way no one will get mad. I will not target any groups, just put out some history. If that is okay. Twee?
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #8,608
  • Aug 28, 2017 8:12am Aug 28, 2017 8:12am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I have not, but I am well aware that we were fed propaganda about Lincoln in school since we were in grade school. {quote} Which part was I fuzzy on? I know I tried to say a lot in as few words as possible. I was unaware of this book, but now I have something to chew on. I probably just reinvented the wheel, but it is good to know that a professor shares what is clearly obvious. The Civil War in my view was a staged war. The cotton gin would have eliminated slavery anyway. Of course hindsight is twenty twenty. I will get hold of the book...
Yes I did mean Event Horizon. I didn't know what you meant so thanks for sharing your point of view on such matters.

As far as the book "The Real Lincoln", the author Thomas DeLorenzo also has a few lectures on this topic on youtube. You might get a taste of this subject matter and find that he shares much of what you are saying and confirms your points. A staged war? Perhaps, but I never reached that conclusion myself. In what aspect do you think it was staged? Was it motivated by Lincolns desire for empire and conquest just as Charles Dickens stated? The part that is most fascinating about Lincoln, besides the fact he was a master manipulator of the media, is that he was all for the corporate welfare for the railroads. After all he was a lawyer originally for one of the major railroads before becoming president and so funding the railroads is where he got a lot of his support for the quid pro quo serving the special interests. The idea of taxation was almost non existent in those times in which the Federal government got most of it's funding through tariffs and is one of the major aspects that drove his federalism and getting rid of states rights so he could impose more taxes to raise money for his beloved railroads. The heated debate on whether the war was about slavery IMO is a ludicrous one, especially if you consider that the south was paying a disproportionate amount of tariffs compared to the North. One obvious point to this is that the North had all the politicians who could out number southern representations who were in favor in raising tariffs against the south, so it was inevitable that a war would eventually break out due to this one issue.
  • #8,609
  • Aug 28, 2017 8:41am Aug 28, 2017 8:41am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} Indeed, you are correct. Expremes tend to all behave the same..
Have you gone through your whole life attempting to fit the round peg of reality into a square hole of your fantasy. Or is this a recent issue, say from a hard bump on the head.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #8,610
  • Aug 28, 2017 9:00am Aug 28, 2017 9:00am
Quoting spzd
{quote} Have you gone through your whole life attempting to fit the round peg of reality into a square hole of your fantasy. Or is this a recent issue, say from a hard bump on the head.
Nah, Ming has a point. Did you know that Marcus Garvey met with the KKK to figure out how blacks could go back to Africa? The extreme fringes meld into each other.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #8,611
  • Aug 28, 2017 9:43am Aug 28, 2017 9:43am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Nah, Ming has a point. Did you know that Marcus Garvey met with the KKK to figure out how blacks could go back to Africa? The extreme fringes meld into each other.
Only if you consider Garvey left extreme and the KKK right extreme. Or vice a versa. Garvey was a black nationalist who wanted blacks to retrurn to Africa. He started that movement in Jamaica. He was also denounced as a danger by known hard leftest as WEB DuBois. As for the KKK, I never did, nor do I now, place them in any right group. Especially when you accept the fact that they have supported the Democrats (left) since their inception.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #8,612
  • Aug 28, 2017 10:05am Aug 28, 2017 10:05am
Quoting spzd
{quote} Only if you consider Garvey left extreme and the KKK right extreme. Or vice a versa. Garvey was a black nationalist who wanted blacks to retrurn to Africa. He started that movement in Jamaica. He was also denounced as a danger by known hard leftest as WEB DuBois. As for the KKK, I never did, nor do I now, place them in any right group. Especially when you accept the fact that they have supported the Democrats (left) since their inception.
I would be hard pressed to consider WEB Dubois a leftist. He was a centrist I would argue. History does seem to believe that Garvey was the far left and the KKK the far right. Think about it. White nationalism has always been on the far right in this country, Garvey was a black nationalist. It makes sense.

It's true the KKK was with the Democrats, this goes back to Lincoln. But LBJ for reasons I will never understand kicked them out of the party. The reason I will never understand it that LBJ was the polar opposite of JFK. I really do not understand why LBJ did this.

BTW, thanks to the mods for allowing us to hash out some sensitive subjects. We are only talking history here.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #8,613
  • Aug 28, 2017 11:01am Aug 28, 2017 11:01am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I would be hard pressed to consider WEB Dubois a leftist. He was a centrist I would argue. History does seem to believe that Garvey was the far left and the KKK the far right. Think about it. White nationalism has always been on the far right in this country, Garvey was a black nationalist. It makes sense. It's true the KKK was with the Democrats, this goes back to Lincoln. But LBJ for reasons I will never understand kicked them out of the party. The reason I will never understand it that LBJ was the polar opposite of JFK. I really do not...
I don't consider the KKK as nationalist. They do fit the category of supremacists. And supremacists can be on either end. antifa is an example of mostly white supremacists on the hard left.

At the time LBJ discarded the KKK and started to "buy" the black vote (done through various welfare entitlements) the KKK was known to have committed violence and the black civil rights movement was well started. By doing this LBJ was able to thwart the Rs who were the ones supporting legislation to give civil rights some legal bite. With LBJ it was not a matter of siding with those who held your same views (as he was definitely a racists), but a way to try and guarantee a block of long term votes for the Ds.

I do not know if the quote credited to him about having the black votes for a hundred years is true (I say this because the quote was apparently made in the oval office and was re-quoted by someone else (can't recall who it was) Knowing that LBJ and his small circle were manipulative Dem operators it may have all been planned. The Ds have been the same now as they have been for the last 150 years). The results of that supposed quote have become true.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #8,614
  • Aug 28, 2017 11:17am Aug 28, 2017 11:17am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} I would be hard pressed to consider WEB Dubois a leftist. He was a centrist I would argue. History does seem to believe that Garvey was the far left and the KKK the far right. Think about it. White nationalism has always been on the far right in this country, Garvey was a black nationalist. It makes sense. It's true the KKK was with the Democrats, this goes back to Lincoln. But LBJ for reasons I will never understand kicked them out of the party. The reason I will never understand it that LBJ was the polar opposite of JFK. I really do not...

I too never really understood LBJ either, and at least by today's standards JFK democrats would be considered more conservative, moderate left if you will in comparison to the progressive left that we are seeing today. JFK democrats are a dying breed, and are sorely missed in today's American political landscape. At least with them, you could still have an honest debate with them, without so much the vitriol we are accustomed to seeing from the left today without mutual respect for their opponents views. My how times have changed! Thanks Obola!
  • #8,615
  • Aug 28, 2017 11:25am Aug 28, 2017 11:25am
Quoting spzd
{quote} Have you gone through your whole life attempting to fit the round peg of reality into a square hole of your fantasy. Or is this a recent issue, say from a hard bump on the head.

The bullet coming for the extreme left or the extreme right has the same effect..


"attempting to fit the round peg of reality into a square hole of your fantasy"

No offense but this coming from someone living in a State that allows teaching Creationism in school, really ? (:
  • #8,616
  • Aug 28, 2017 11:27am Aug 28, 2017 11:27am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} It's men in politics, the world is bonkers !! It sounds more like "Are you being served" or "It Ain't Half Hot Mum". That's the kind of stuff they consider legitimate expense, how can needing a make-up artist ever be an emergency if you are a bloke !!?
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  • #8,617
  • Aug 28, 2017 12:02pm Aug 28, 2017 12:02pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} The bullet coming for the extreme left or the extreme right has the same effect.. "attempting to fit the round peg of reality into a square hole of your fantasy" No offense but this coming from someone living in a State that allows teaching Creationism in school, really ? (:
Sure since evolution is but a failed theory. You try too hard and fall flat every time. ciao
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #8,618
  • Aug 28, 2017 12:28pm Aug 28, 2017 12:28pm
Quoting DrManhatten
..... Sturgis is an annual meeting place in South Dakota USA where Bikers from all over the country ride to meet for a few days.
...and after which Harley Davidson named one of their special bikes.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #8,619
  • Aug 28, 2017 12:39pm Aug 28, 2017 12:39pm
Quoting verv
{quote} It's an ironic twist on words. Heard Milton Friedman say something similar in relation to capitalism vs socialism.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery". Winston Churchill
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #8,620
  • Aug 28, 2017 1:50pm Aug 28, 2017 1:50pm
As a sponge-like teen I visited the Gettysburg museum in Pennsylvania (?) and saw all the artefacts and the portrayal of the tactics employed by factions. I was not conscious of a full disclosure of the causes of the war, but I had already been primed with the anti-slavery rhetoric. These days I can believe anything. The thrust of the railways and the economic benefits attached thereto are if anything a more plausible reason.

Quoting jmn5611
..... It is fact that has not played itself out. We are going to have WWIII, there is little we can do about it at this point. At this point we can only hope that it will not be an extinction event for the species.
It is difficult to see how it will not be an MEE. If it really gets to World War status one has to remember, the only rule is thou shalt not lose. The loser is dragged before the war-crimes adjudicator and flogged to death. The victor is cheered for the same actions ... but he won. So in the vein of "thou shalt not lose" any and all weapons are fair game. During WW1 both sides gassed each other. During WW2 the Allies killed more civilians than the Germans and Japanese ... by burning them to death.

So now that we have the posturing, who is going to be stupid enough to believe that a cornered <insert nasty animal name> will not fight with everything at their disposal. The focus is currently on nukes. Did anybody consider that the NK distraction is merely a shade for the high-tech nerve gas distribution system. Discount nothing.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
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