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  • #8,301
  • Aug 14, 2017 12:05pm Aug 14, 2017 12:05pm
Magog has just had his membership revoked
  • #8,302
  • Aug 14, 2017 12:29pm Aug 14, 2017 12:29pm
Quoting Ross88
Magog has just had his membership revoked
Can't say I am surprised. Oh well, as the saying goes choose your battles wisely!
  • #8,303
  • Aug 14, 2017 12:42pm Aug 14, 2017 12:42pm
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Can't say I am surprised. Oh well, as the saying goes choose your battles wisely!
Attached Image
  • #8,304
  • Aug 14, 2017 1:45pm Aug 14, 2017 1:45pm
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} I can only assume the source is reliable, being in the Air Ministry and committing to print. {image}
It is my recollection, from past readings, that the RAF bombed some German civilian targets in order to distract the Germans from their tactics of the time.

The RAF were being pulverised, by having their airfields destroyed thus grounding planes ( = easy targets) and keeping the fighters out of the skies.

However .... as the saying goes, all's fair in love and war. At the time Britain had just been beaten out of Europe and was fighting for its life.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #8,305
  • Edited 2:29pm Aug 14, 2017 1:57pm | Edited 2:29pm
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Verv I don't think the author's sympathies have any bearing on the contents of the book. Yes you are right I didn't notice the absence of quotes but tied it in my head to this... In Germany, as in Britain, the air force is a separate Service, but it has never been able to free itself from the armys influence to the same extent... (Centre for The Study Of War State Exeter University)

The person who writes these things does matter, especially when the reader doesn't have expertise in the subject area. A highly selective range of quotations can paint a picture which isn't entirely accurate, and a reader lacking expertise (which I include myself in) might struggle to understand the accuracy of that painted picture.

Irish Republicans (and the author is one) are notorious for rebranding history to suit a political agenda. His website is unrelenting in its Brit (and Irish Unionist) bashing. He occasionally strays into an area I do have a degree of expertise - recent British and Irish relations from 1920. Here he says things which are completely counter fact. The guy is definitely grinding a political axe, and singing from Sinn Fein / IRA's bag of tricks. Not everyone who claims to be interested in the truth actually is.

Nevertheless, your quotes of the bombing on the 11th May almost certainly refer to the last point from the RAF diary on the national archives which I'm going to post again here:

 

  1. 11/12 May - 19 Hampdens and 18 Whitleys bomb road and rail targets in Mnchen-Gladbach - the first raid on a German town. 2 Hampdens and 1 Whitley lost; 4 people killed.


The question is then, was this a military target (I believe it was) or was it a civilian target with a view to breaking moral - so called 'Terror bombing'.

One other thing I forgot about but was reminded of during a more thorough reading of 'drpatwalsh' page. The Germans first used 'terror bombing' in September 1939 in Warsaw in the battle of Poland where many thousands were killed. I thought it was Rotterdam.

I guess one question that I'm left with, is do you think Britain and America was right to fight Germany?

  • #8,306
  • Aug 14, 2017 3:13pm Aug 14, 2017 3:13pm
Quoting verv
{quote} The person who writes these things does matter, especially when the reader doesn't have expertise in the subject area. A highly selective range of quotations can paint a picture which isn't entirely accurate, and a reader lacking expertise (which I include myself in) might struggle to understand the accuracy of that painted picture. Irish Republicans (and the author is one) are notorious for rebranding history to suit a political agenda. His website is unrelenting in its Brit (and Irish Unionist) bashing. He occasionally strays into an area...

I disagree, his political leanings don't matter. The subject matter is completely different. The main focus that caught my attention was the Ministry guy stating about Hitler waiting 3 months and that matched what Hitler himself said. That one point alone can't be confused and no other reading changes that point. Yes but what was the real reason for him going into Poland ? My understanding is that there was no access granted to East Prussia and he could not ignore the fact up to the spring of 1939 there had been approx 60K ethnic Germans killed by the Polish Army and independent Bolshevik units.
At this point I honestly can't say if we were right to go to war with Germany. What I can be sure of the rank and file are the ones who pay the true price.
Do you plan to watch the vids I suggested this afternoon ?
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,307
  • Aug 14, 2017 3:39pm Aug 14, 2017 3:39pm
Quoting Exodus
{quote} It is my recollection, from past readings, that the RAF bombed some German civilian targets in order to distract the Germans from their tactics of the time. The RAF were being pulverised, by having their airfields destroyed thus grounding planes ( = easy targets) and keeping the fighters out of the skies. However .... as the saying goes, all's fair in love and war. At the time Britain had just been beaten out of Europe and was fighting for its life.
I honestly think it could take a lifetime to get to the bottom of the whole story and it's nothing new that we don't get the full picture. The net has obviously made it a lot easier to share information, some plausible, some rubbish, all we can do is form an opinion based on the official record and then the murmurs thereafter. That beating in Europe could have been much worse had the Panzer divisons not been called off.

I think it may be a view that I'm some kind of fascist sympathiser. I can assure that is not the case, both my parents were involved and thankfully they survived but feel sad for the families that lost everything. I'm just digging because as we know from the Blair experience, the PTB don't give a shit about who they pack off to fight their wars and out of loyalty and generally some ignorance innocent people are killed, while backroom handshakes take place.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,308
  • Aug 14, 2017 3:41pm Aug 14, 2017 3:41pm
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} I disagree, his political leanings don't matter. The subject matter is completely different. The main focus that caught my attention was the Ministry guy stating about Hitler waiting 3 months and that matched what Hitler himself said. That one point alone can't be confused and no other reading changes that point. Yes but what was the real reason for him going into Poland ? My understanding is that there was no access granted to East Prussia and he could not ignore the fact up to the spring of 1939 there had been approx 60K ethnic Germans...
Even that article though is another Brit bash, he is making a political point as much as anything else. I agree facts should stand alone, but as a supposed historian he is eerily quiet about the Nazi bombing campaigns on civilians. Anyway, time to move on from that particular guff. I think we have covered all the ground we can, and shall just disagree on who started what. I'm under no illusions of the scale of the allied bombing of German cities.

Regarding the holocaust:
I won't have time to watch them in the next few days, though might be able to this weekend. As I've said before my tolerance for videos is low, a 30 minute video can turn into a several hour ordeal because I'm busy pausing and googling information in the background lol.

I'm reluctant to delve too deeply into the holocaust. It doesn't make much difference to me if 1, 2, 3 or 6 million were exterminated. It's still genoicide.

Better would be to take one single point that you think is strongest against the holocaust and I can reply to that instead.
  • #8,309
  • Aug 14, 2017 3:46pm Aug 14, 2017 3:46pm
Quoting verv
{quote} Even that article though is another Brit bash, he is making a political point as much as anything else. I agree facts should stand alone, but as a supposed historian he is eerily quiet about the Nazi bombing campaigns on civilians. Anyway, time to move on from that particular guff. I think we have covered all the ground we can, and shall just disagree on who started what. I'm under no illusions of the scale of the allied bombing of German cities. Regarding the holocaust: I won't have time to watch them in the next few days, though might...
Don't think it was particularly a Brit bash but Ok time out Verv, get back to you
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,310
  • Aug 14, 2017 3:52pm Aug 14, 2017 3:52pm
Haven't seen Jen about since last week, kids off school etc probably very busy, she got the option to rent a few Grandads here
If you pop in Jen hope all is well.

And MAG

https://youtu.be/0-MqjagjZl4
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,311
  • Aug 15, 2017 1:30am Aug 15, 2017 1:30am
https://youtu.be/5r3kpl5Ao5s
  • #8,312
  • Aug 15, 2017 2:30am Aug 15, 2017 2:30am
They have ruled out terrorism very quickly on this but confirm it was deliberate.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-attacks-france-idUSKCN1AU28Q
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,313
  • Edited 7:20am Aug 15, 2017 5:35am | Edited 7:20am
Quoting Stu Effex
They have ruled out terrorism very quickly on this but confirm it was deliberate. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-attacks-france-idUSKCN1AU28Q
A little context is needed in order to understand the full dynamic of this story.

First the Alt White nationalists group is not associated with the NEO nazi protestors that the far left so often like to misinform the public about in regards to racism but you cant know the truth with the help of their MSM cohorts pushing out a false narrative on a daily basis. The Alt White Nationalists group is a organization that represents the grievances of white people and their interest who feel they have been systematically discriminated against with hurtful policies such as Affirmative action hiring practices, being unfairly denied entry into colleges or being denied Government jobs based on being white, or being unfairly targeted by SJWs with methods such doxing to guilt shame, and being made to be the scape goats of white oppression of the past. These people are not racists but are doing what other groups in America are doing by exercising their 1st amendment rights by assembling peacefully to speak up against what the left is trying to subjugate everyone into believing; a premise that has a sinister agenda based on diversity, PC memes, and multiculturalism BS. The white nationalist group are no different than Latinos, Blacks, Asian organizations that want to speak up and represent their interests in which they feel aggrieved by the double standards being practice and the preferential treatment that some groups are getting over them. The problem is, with so many different groups voicing their opposition to one another, meaningful dialogue can not happen, because one group is constantly trying to shout down the other, thus the conflicts start at such events as these when one group decides to hold a protest march and the other starts to be violent in an attempt to shut them up. The only way meaningful dialogue is going to happen is when Americans decide that they are all Americans and the mantels of multiculturalism, political correctness and tribal politics are altogether abandoned.

What is most interesting to me about this and is not being fairly depicted in the news amongst all the hysteria right now, is how ANTIFA is not being called out for starting this conflict in the first place. All you are hearing right is how Trump did not right out call out the Neo nazis, when in fact in his original statement he was trying to be inclusive of all involved knowing perfectly well that ANTIFA was the culprit of starting this riot. Let me be clear, I do not condone what the driver of the car did by running over people and Killing and injuring some in the process. But actually what happened was that the driver, whose car was being attacked by ANTIFA members drove forcefully away to avoid getting his car damaged. However this was just some guy who panicked and wasn't the smartest tool in the shed judging from his actions and will probably get the book thrown at him, but also be the scapegoat for all other things involved with this tragedy. The point is, ANTIFA should not get a pass on this, because it is their violence which BTW has been in the past (see Berkley UC) doing this on a regular basis and needs to be addressed in the worst way.

Anyway, attached below is a picture of where this group was staged in which the assemblers who were protesting were escorted from the park by State police. Notice the exit points and where ANTIFA were in relation to these exits, and you can pretty much figure out who started the violence.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Antifa Was Waiting for a confrontation.jpg Size: 765 KB
  • #8,314
  • Aug 15, 2017 5:54am Aug 15, 2017 5:54am
https://youtu.be/AbQdNvwmCAI

This is worth seeing, as Carlson raises some very poignant facts before interviewing DaMore on his take about Google's so called diversity policy. What Google really did by firing Damore is contradict their own diversity policy! I smell an anti trust suit against Google coming soon!
  • #8,315
  • Aug 15, 2017 6:40am Aug 15, 2017 6:40am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} A little context is needed in order to understand the full dynamic of this story. First the Alt White nationalists group is not associated with the NEO nazi protestors that the far left so often like to misinform the public about in regards to racism but you cant know the truth with the help of their MSM cohorts pushing out a false narrative on a daily basis. The Alt White Nationalists group is a organization that represents the grievances of white people and their interest who feel they have been systematically discriminated against with...
guys i'm looking for a good book about WW2 but it's a bit of a strange subject it's about the remote islanders that thought the Americans were gods because they had advanced technology and tin food if anyone knows of a good book or just a documentary please let me know

here is a link so you have a better ideal what i'm taking about http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2014/01/22/the_cargo_cults_of_tanna_worship_an_american_wwii_soldier_and_prince_philip.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
  • #8,316
  • Aug 15, 2017 7:15am Aug 15, 2017 7:15am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} guys i'm looking for a good book about WW2 but it's a bit of a strange subject it's about the remote islanders that thought the Americans were gods because they had advanced technology and tin food if anyone knows of a good book or just a documentary please let me know here is a link so you have a better ideal what i'm taking about http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2014/01/22/the_cargo_cults_of_tanna_worship_an_american_wwii_soldier_and_prince_philip.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

Well you can research the pacific especially in relation to operations relating to Australian territories such as Papua New Guinnia and those regions were pretty remote and primitive.
  • #8,317
  • Aug 15, 2017 7:32am Aug 15, 2017 7:32am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} A little context is needed in order to understand the full dynamic of this story. First the Alt White nationalists group is not associated with the NEO nazi protestors that the far left so often like to misinform the public about in regards to racism but you cant know the truth with the help of their MSM cohorts pushing out a false narrative on a daily basis. The Alt White Nationalists group is a organization that represents the grievances of white people and their interest who feel they have been systematically discriminated against with...
From what I've read Doc think the Mayor is on the hook, seems orchestrated to me. They were lead into the lions Den then the cops called off the job to let the situation fester.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,318
  • Aug 15, 2017 8:39am Aug 15, 2017 8:39am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} A little context is needed in order to understand the full dynamic of this story. First the Alt White nationalists group is not associated with the NEO nazi protestors that the far left so often like to misinform the public about in regards to racism but you cant know the truth with the help of their MSM cohorts pushing out a false narrative on a daily basis. The Alt White Nationalists group is a organization that represents the grievances of white people and their interest who feel they have been systematically discriminated against with...
You could, rightfully, come to the conclusion that the police purposely steered the alt-right into antifa. They knew what the likely results would be.

One thing of importance is which groups had the legal permit for a rally and which group was there illegally. Alt-right had a legal permit. As usual antifa/blm were there without a permit for the sole purpose of causing violence. If you question the violence part, all you need to do is research any antifa led gathering. The results are always violence of some sort.

Trump lost a lot of support when he put the blanket label of nazi, kkk, and supremacist on the entire group of white nationalists who were there. Granted there were some from those groups, but they were a very small minority. Even though the numbers at any given rally are not huge, the following of the alt-right in general measures in the millions. The more this general group is labeled as they have been the larger the group will grow. There is a definite precedent of bias against whites and things will rapidly get out of control if the government does not reign in the violent left antifa/blm. Unlike Europe and the UK, people in America have a breaking point and will retaliate strongly if that point is reached.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #8,319
  • Aug 15, 2017 8:41am Aug 15, 2017 8:41am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} From what I've read Doc think the Mayor is on the hook, seems orchestrated to me. They were lead into the lions Den then the cops called off the job to let the situation fester.
You are correct Stu. The same sh*t happened in Berkeley UC. The mayor there was also involved in making the cops stand down, as ANTIFA was there too, looting and destroying personal property. It wasn't until they had another rally on government property that they got their a$$es handed to them by DHS troops and the right decided to fight back. There is plenty of references online in relation to these incidents! It is the left and the George Soros's funded groups that are hell bent on creating this. ANTIFA is funded by George Soros as well as BLM and other NGO's. This needs to be nipped in the bud fast or the country is going to spiral into more of these, something that the left is chomping at the bit to happen. The problem with the left, is they are vastly out numbered by NRA members and ex-military who typically vote republican and exercise their 2nd amendment rights. Not to be trifled with if they want to keep pushing for a war against conservatives. Personally I hope it doesn't come to that, but if something isn't done soon to stop this group and others like it who keep preaching hate and violence, then things are going to get nasty real fast. What alternatives are left when people are pushed too far?
  • #8,320
  • Aug 15, 2017 8:47am Aug 15, 2017 8:47am
Quoting spzd
{quote} You could, rightfully, come to the conclusion that the police purposely steered the alt-right into antifa. They knew what the likely results would be. One thing of importance is which groups had the legal permit for a rally and which group was there illegally. Alt-right had a legal permit. As usual antifa/blm were there without a permit for the sole purpose of causing violence. If you question the violence part, all you need to do is research any antifa led gathering. The results are always violence of some sort. Trump lost a lot of support...
Exactly! Why this violent group and BLM have not been addressed is a bit of a mystery to me. Anyway, it now needs to be dealt before further violence occurs with these idiots! The part that gets my ire up, is most of these members are from middle class suburbia homes so I have to ask what do they have to be aggrieved about? Don't they have the best living standard among the highest in the world? I don't even think they know what their cause is, except that they think its cool to go out in the streets and cause violence. Totally pathetic!
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