The Rabbit Hole | Page 415 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Peering down the algorithmic trading rabbit hole 11 replies

Badgers Bolt hole 39 replies

Different Charting software: Hole in charts? 0 replies

Pipbuilder's hole 2 replies

Black Hole Trading 0 replies

Attachments: The Rabbit Hole
Exit Attachments

The Rabbit Hole

  • #8,281
  • Aug 14, 2017 1:59am Aug 14, 2017 1:59am
Quoting Magog
{quote} What they also censor, heavily, is anything questioning the HH. And talking of censorship - bet the last few pages here won't last long.
I caution continuing to post stuff that can appear to be anti Semitic as that will get this thread shut down if you continue harping on this stuff.

Heed J's advice during the infancy of this thread.
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=9158909#post9158909 (post43)

My point is, I am not trying to criticize what your opinions are on certain subject matter, but only to encourage you to start changing the topic less jewish centric. This is a pretty good thread and I don't want it to be shut down because of this one theme being exacerbated into inflammatory rhetoric!
  • #8,282
  • Aug 14, 2017 3:41am Aug 14, 2017 3:41am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Verv I don't need to defend anything, in my original post with the vid I said let's discuss. Based on our governments tell us some whoppers. I didn't say that I was endorsing every point, I merely said "Let's discuss ?" Again you are putting your shovel where there isn't any, I said previously that I wasn't saying Hitler was a spiffing chap and don't expect you to believe anything. My last words were "Let's discuss" instead you chose not to discuss but trivialise it as trash based on your own beliefs. You have the opinion that every word...
Where did I say 'every word' was all trash Stu. I selected specific quotes from the videos and sought to demonstrate why I thought it was wrong.

You said discuss, I discussed, and my particular opinion of that video is revisionist anti-West pro-facist crap. That's a discussion, it's just one you don't particularly like.

I'm very direct when I post, sometimes that comes across as patronising, some times its comes across as super aggressive, I know that - it's not meant to come across that way, and I apologise if it comes across strong. But know it's nothing personal.
  • #8,283
  • Aug 14, 2017 3:54am Aug 14, 2017 3:54am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} I caution continuing to post stuff that can appear to be anti Semitic as that will get this thread shut down if you continue harping on this stuff. Heed J's advice during the infancy of this thread. https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=9158909#post9158909 (post43) My point is, I am not trying to criticize what your opinions are on certain subject matter, but only to encourage you to start changing the topic less jewish centric. This is a pretty good thread and I don't want it to be shut down because...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: rule.jpeg Size: 49 KB
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #8,284
  • Aug 14, 2017 4:23am Aug 14, 2017 4:23am
Think everything is ok? - think again.

Attached Image
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #8,285
  • Aug 14, 2017 5:28am Aug 14, 2017 5:28am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} I am not sure if the German banks were headed by jewish bankers, but I wouldnt be surprised if they were. That article is an interesting read but I refrain from commenting on it further. I dont want to appear to be anti semitic because truly I am not. I do understand like you that there are always an alternative point of view to most things in history, and like I said before somewhere between one source and an alternative point of view lays the truth. This is how I view most things within historical context. My main interest though in all...
Cheers Doc will queue it to watch.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,287
  • Aug 14, 2017 6:20am Aug 14, 2017 6:20am
Quoting verv
{quote} Where did I say 'every word' was all trash Stu. I selected specific quotes from the videos and sought to demonstrate why I thought it was wrong. You said discuss, I discussed, and my particular opinion of that video is revisionist anti-West pro-facist crap. That's a discussion, it's just one you don't particularly like. I'm very direct when I post, sometimes that comes across as patronising, some times its comes across as super aggressive, I know that - it's not meant to come across that way, and I apologise if it comes across strong. But...
Well not in as many words but the use of "and then you post that crap about Hitler?" and " A video spun with half truths absent of context that relies solely on the word of a lying and manipulative Hitler?" .
No need to apologise, on a personal level I have rhino hide but discussion to me isn't an assault, that was the point I was making, I'm certainly not offended.
The guy I referred to last night(J.M.Spaight) was Principle secretary of the Air ministry who states in his book "Bombing Vindicated" (1944) gives credence to Hitlers Reichstag speech regarding the 3 month wait. So it would appear the "Blitz" was retaliation and not as often quoted. It would appear the chap making this statement is a reliable source considering his position in the Air Ministry.

https://drpatwalsh.com/2016/10/15/bombing-vindicated/
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,288
  • Aug 14, 2017 6:31am Aug 14, 2017 6:31am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} I caution continuing to post stuff that can appear to be anti Semitic as that will get this thread shut down if you continue harping on this stuff. Heed J's advice during the infancy of this thread. https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=9158909#post9158909 (post43) My point is, I am not trying to criticize what your opinions are on certain subject matter, but only to encourage you to start changing the topic less jewish centric. This is a pretty good thread and I don't want it to be shut down because of this one theme...
Doc I understand your reasons for this post but it really is giving in to pressure on what is up for discussion. It is a very similar situation to that which we face when being critical of Islam and if there are links to heavy Jewish involvement in the manipulation of some situations then so be it, it should not be censored. The use of anti simitic, islamaphobia, anti gay etc etc is just control. It's a rabbit hole after all not a branch of the W.I.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,289
  • Aug 14, 2017 7:18am Aug 14, 2017 7:18am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Doc I understand your reasons for this post but it really is giving in to pressure on what is up for discussion. It is a very similar situation to that which we face when being critical of Islam and if there are links to heavy Jewish involvement in the manipulation of some situations then so be it, it should not be censored. The use of anti simitic, islamaphobia, anti gay etc etc is just control. It's a rabbit hole after all not a branch of the W.I.
I am in complete agreement with you Stu, but we are not operating in a free Zone, and I am just throwing caution to the wind in order to bring presence of mind of being cognizant about dwelling too long on a particular subject that singles a out particular group of people. Somebody has to mention this, might as well be me. I don't like it anymore than you do and wish to speak my mind freely, but remember when you consider other senior members coming here on a daily basis looking for a reason to complain, then I am saying just be cautious in that regard. As the saying goes, fire in the hole!

Cheers
  • #8,290
  • Aug 14, 2017 7:20am Aug 14, 2017 7:20am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Well not in as many words but the use of "and then you post that crap about Hitler?" and " A video spun with half truths absent of context that relies solely on the word of a lying and manipulative Hitler?" . No need to apologise, on a personal level I have rhino hide but discussion to me isn't an assault, that was the point I was making, I'm certainly not offended. The guy I referred to last night(J.M.Spaight) was Principle secretary of the Air ministry who states in his book "Bombing Vindicated" (1944) gives credence to Hitlers Reichstag...
I struggle with the idea of waiting three months to retaliate. I struggle with that because Germany at the time of the Blitz in September of 1940 was considerably weakened as a result of the Battle of Britain. It is my understanding that Hitler held off from bombing Britain because he wanted peace with Britain.

I don't agree that those areas Hitler claimed were civilian targets were actually civilian. As I've said there were industrialized areas important to the German war effort. That civilians may have been killed doesn't mean it was the deliberate bombing of civilians.

However lets play devils advocate and assume that the British did deliberately bomb civilians of the Rhine and Westphalia which Hitler claimed. Even then Germany still manages to have been the first country to deliberately bomb civilians with the Blitz of Rotterdam on the 14th of May 1940.
  • #8,291
  • Edited 11:04am Aug 14, 2017 7:32am | Edited 11:04am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Cheers Doc will queue it to watch.
I had realized in my last response that I left some important stuff out that I wanted to express in regards to revisionist history. For example, all across America in several cities, the monuments of famous confederate Generals are being removed on the grounds of them being the symbols of hate, when in fact it is part of American history. This to me is extremely dangerous and absurd. As you probably have heard by now of the events in Charlottesville Va that took place? The removal of these statutes is what started this whole entire tragedy. Furthermore the Confederate Flag which is often referred to, (but in actuality it was the battle flag of Northern Virginia) is another such symbol in which is deemed as a hate symbol by the left. The very same flag which was hi-jacked by neo-nazis white supremacists changed the connotations of this flag because fanatics such as these people decided to make it their own symbol. The same can be said about the swastika in which is an ancient Tibetan religious symbol for thousands of years prior to H and the nazi party adopting it as their political symbol. Recently, a temple in Japan decided to remove this symbol because of unwanted criticism from several groups claiming it to be a hate symbol. The point is, these leftists snowflakes think they can rewrite history by simply removing such articles, and labeling them in order to ostracize future uses by making them taboo. This is really getting to a very dangerous point in our history and thus don't be surprised to see violent clashes as a result. Orwell warned us about this very same thing in 1984.
  • #8,292
  • Aug 14, 2017 8:51am Aug 14, 2017 8:51am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} I caution continuing to post stuff that can appear to be anti Semitic as that will get this thread shut down if you continue harping on this stuff. Heed J's advice during the infancy of this thread. https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=9158909#post9158909 (post43) My point is, I am not trying to criticize what your opinions are on certain subject matter, but only to encourage you to start changing the topic less jewish centric. This is a pretty good thread and I don't want it to be shut down because of this one theme...
You are correct.

This does fall into the category of this quote (commonly attributed to Voltaire, but I think that is incorrect).

“To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #8,293
  • Aug 14, 2017 9:01am Aug 14, 2017 9:01am
Quoting verv
{quote} If you have specific information regarding this picture link it. Maybe it's the Nazis maybe it's the allies. But the important point is one you just made, if the the allies could burn huge piles of corpses quickly, why couldn't the Germans do exactly the same?
Verve I don't have anything specific about that particular picture but what I have found is many of these photographs are used to depict atrocity and again I'm not saying bad stuff never happened, it was a war after all but the scale and extremes of a lot of stuff has anomalies. Many of the photos were taken during liberation in 1945 and starvation was clearly an issue but there are Jewish people who have testified that they were treated and fed well, it was only the last 6 months or so of war when supply lines being taken out by allied forces caused starvation and the spread of typhus. The photographs in the propaganda machine neglect to mention that and they don't mention that many of the camp guards were also in poor condition due to lack of supplies.
This vid highlights some anomalies and does illustrate how the images are used for manipulation. It is a long one but worth watching IMO. For the record I would obviously prefer that the official version could be relied upon but once there is evidence of tall stories, I do wonder to what lengths TPTB will go to in order to preserve the history that suits them.

https://youtu.be/RddqP0ABzwM

https://youtu.be/XcB2-10ldkI
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,294
  • Aug 14, 2017 9:33am Aug 14, 2017 9:33am
Quoting verv
{quote} I struggle with the idea of waiting three months to retaliate. I struggle with that because Germany at the time of the Blitz in September of 1940 was considerably weakened as a result of the Battle of Britain. It is my understanding that Hitler held off from bombing Britain because he wanted peace with Britain. I don't agree that those areas Hitler claimed were civilian targets were actually civilian. As I've said there were industrialized areas important to the German war effort. That civilians may have been killed doesn't mean it was the...
I can only assume the source is reliable, being in the Air Ministry and committing to print.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 11th May.jpg Size: 288 KB
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,295
  • Aug 14, 2017 9:41am Aug 14, 2017 9:41am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} I had realized in my last response that I left some important stuff out that I wanted to express in regards to revisionist history. For example, all across America in several cities, the monuments of famous confederate Generals are being removed on the grounds of them being the symbols of hate, when in fact it is part of American history. This to me is extremely dangerous and absurd. As you probably have heard by now of the events in Charlottesville Va that took place? The removal of these statutes is what started this whole entire tragedy....

Same here
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/29/renamed-and-shamed-taking-on-britains-slave-trade-past-from-colston-hall-to-penny-lane
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,296
  • Aug 14, 2017 9:43am Aug 14, 2017 9:43am
Quoting spzd
{quote} You are correct. This does fall into the category of this quote (commonly attributed to Voltaire, but I think that is incorrect). To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

Indeed!
  • #8,297
  • Aug 14, 2017 9:53am Aug 14, 2017 9:53am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Same here https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/29/renamed-and-shamed-taking-on-britains-slave-trade-past-from-colston-hall-to-penny-lane
Funny how some can't bear their own shame so they have to find a cause to latch onto in an attempt to eradicate their own guilt. Did these same people forget or are aloof about their own self evolution in the process? I wonder! That is what leftist SJW's are. Soulless wonders still looking for salvation in some form of a hollow cause like chasing ghosts of yesterdays past!
  • #8,298
  • Aug 14, 2017 10:09am Aug 14, 2017 10:09am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} I can only assume the source is reliable, being in the Air Ministry and committing to print. {image}
Stu, the part you have highlighted is not a quote from any book, it is the website owner posting something that has no citation. It was not said by any British RAF pilot. There is a quote further up the page about the 11th of May bombing, but it doesn't give any specifics.

(PS - That author has a picture of Irish Republican Roger Casement and a eulogy to the recently deceased IRA man Martin McGuiness - just to let you know where his sympathies lie.)

The first raid on Berlin is widely considered to be the 25th of August, the night after Germany dropped bombs on London (possibly by accident).

The UK national archives have a section about the actions of Bomber command here: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20070706054916/http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/diary_france.html

Over the 10-11th of May, the period that it is claimed there was bombings on Berlin they have these entries:

  1. 10 May - 33 Blenheims attack German transport aircraft and other targets in Holland. 3 aircraft lost. Advanced Air Striking Force (AASF) aircraft are caught on the ground by surprise German attacks during the morning on airfields in Holland, Belgium and France. Luckily, allied fighters at French airfields manage to scramble and break up many incoming bomber formations and losses were light. In the following confusion, and also due to a lack of co-operation from General Vuillemin, Commander-in-Chief of the French Air Force, retaliatory attacks are delayed until late morning. Some French bombers were detailed to fly unarmed morale-boosting flights over French troops, but were easy prey to German fighters while others never get airborne due to number of orders and counter-orders deluging the command system. The overall British commander, Air Marshal Barratt, acting on his own initiative, orders 32 Battles from Nos 12, 103, 105, 142, 150, 218 and 226 Squadrons to attack German troops advancing through Luxembourg at noon. In a chilling scene-setting series of events, 13 are shot down by mobile anti-aircraft and machine guns. The remainder all suffer damage of some kind. In a second attack during the afternoon, a further 10 Battles from 32 ordered into the air are lost to German fighters and flak. British decision-making on the use of home-based bomber squadrons is hindered by the formation of a new government under Winston Churchill.
  2. 10/11 May - 36 Wellingtons attack Waalhaven airfield and 9 Whitleys bomb bridges across the Rhine at Rees and Wesel as well as road convoys. No losses.
  3. 11 May - In France, members of No 114 Squadron are kitting up prior to taking off on a dawn mission to attack enemy troops in the Ardennes when 9 German Dornier bombers attack their airfield at Vraux, virtually wiping out the entire squadron in one go. In the afternoon, 8 Battles of Nos 88 and 218 Squadrons are despatched to attack German troops in Luxembourg. None make it to the intended target area as German fighters account for 7 aircraft en-route and the eighth returns early. Following a desperate plea from the Belgians (who had lost 6 out of 9 Battles attacking bridges over Albert Canal near Maastricht), 23 Blenheims are ordered to attack the same targets. Four aircraft are lost and none of the bombs hit the intended target. A follow up attack by LeO 451 bombers of the French Air Force failed to destroy the bridges, but did start several fires in a motorised column. Planned reconnaissance by 6 Blenheims cancelled due to poor weather. 2 aircraft lost.
  4. 11/12 May - 19 Hampdens and 18 Whitleys bomb road and rail targets in Mnchen-Gladbach - the first raid on a German town. 2 Hampdens and 1 Whitley lost; 4 people killed.

That very last point, is probably the one that people are referring that happened on the 11th of May. This to me doesn't seem like indiscriminate bombings, it was targeted to hit railways.

The British policy was not to bomb purely civilian targets, that policy was lifted after the Blitz of Rotterdam.

  • #8,299
  • Aug 14, 2017 10:13am Aug 14, 2017 10:13am
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Funny how some can't bear their own shame so they have to find a cause to latch onto in an attempt to eradicate their own guilt. Did these same people forget or are aloof about their own self evolution in the process? I wonder! That is what leftist SJW's are. Soulless wonders still looking for salvation in some form of a hollow cause like chasing ghosts of yesterdays past!
Yes, exactly Doc. It seems the past is an easy target but they are quite happy to turn a blind eye to the activities of Clinton Et Al. It's all distraction techniques.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #8,300
  • Aug 14, 2017 12:00pm Aug 14, 2017 12:00pm
Quoting verv
{quote} Stu, the part you have highlighted is not a quote from any book, it is the website owner posting something that has no citation. It was not said by any British RAF pilot. There is a quote further up the page about the 11th of May bombing, but it doesn't give any specifics. (PS - That author has a picture of Irish Republican Roger Casement and a eulogy to the recently deceased IRA man Martin McGuiness - just to let you know where his sympathies lie.) The first raid on Berlin is widely considered to be the 25th of August, the night after Germany...
Verv I don't think the author's sympathies have any bearing on the contents of the book.
Yes you are right I didn't notice the absence of quotes but tied it in my head to this...

In Germany, as in Britain, the air force is a separate Service, but it has never been able to free itself from the armys influence to the same extent. Our own air force cut adrift from the army more than twenty-one years before the present war began. The date when it came into being, 1 April, 1918, is an epochal one in the calendar which records the conflict between British air power and German militarist ambition. The other red-letter dates in that calendar are 11 May, 1940, when we opened our strategic air offensive against the Reich, and 27 September, 1940, when Fighter Command won the last of its great victories over the Luftwaffe in the battle of Britain. Perhaps some other dates should be added to this list, those, for instance, in 1935-36 when we conceived the big four-engined bomber. None of them had the same importance, however, as the first of all, the date on which the Air Force was formed. Its creation was an act of faith. Those who worked for a separate Service and General Smuts was first and foremost in that prescient band looked far ahead They grasped the truth that mans mastery of the air has not only made warfare three-dimensional that is a truism today but entitles the arm whose path is the third element to claim the place of a co-equal with the historic arms of war. (pp.23-4)

I think it is important to note that that book was not written with a perspective of revisionism which is clearly illustrated here
Because we were doubtful about the psychological effect of propagandist distortion of the truth that it was we who started the strategic bombing offensive, we have shrunk from giving our great decision of May 11th 1940, the publicity it deserves.
and that statement in itself clearly gives a perspective on the British bombing policy.

One thing is certain, and it is a thing which should be made clear, for it is commonly
misunderstood: the bombing of Warsaw or of Rotterdam was not in parallel with the
bombing of London The attack upon London was not Blitzkrieg. Blitzkrieg is the combination of swift mechanised onslaughts in the air and on the ground. It is a technique of attack which leaves the assailant in possession of the objective. Now, air attack alone could never have left London in the hands of the enemy. If Hitler had gone on bombing London from that time to this he would never have conquered London.
When Warsaw and Rotterdam were bombed, German armies were at their gates. The air bombardment was an operation of the tactical offensive. It was therefore, for the Germans, according to Cocker, Cocker here being a standard of military expediency alone They are, aufond, stupid people on the whole. They showed their stupidity when they kept on harping, once the raids on London had begun, on the retaliatory nature of the attacks on the city. Again and again the German official reports emphasised the reprisal element in the action of the Luftwaffe. They kept screaming, in effect: We are hitting you because you hit us first. If you stop bombing us, well stop bombing you. That, too, was the recurrent note in Hitlers periodical denunciations of our air offensive. He added to his diatribes a good deal of sob-stuff about war on women and children (pp.30-1)

He is pretty clear here about bombings being retaliatory, remember this was 1944 and no definitive "History" written.

Anyway Verv there is plenty of other meat between the quotes especially the reference to the 3 month wait which show the stories don't stack up and hope you can see by reading that article why I posted the original Vid. None of this is about being right or wanting a particular version of events to be right, it's just about trying to find the truth.

I don't know if you are aware throughout the war there was a collaboration between The Ministry of Information and The Air Ministry to produce accounts in booklet form of all bombing raids and even 3 years into the war there was still insistence that the RAF were bombing military targets only, long after they had been bombing city centres. (Centre for The Study Of War State Exeter University)
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
2 traders viewing now