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  • #8,241
  • Aug 13, 2017 4:44am Aug 13, 2017 4:44am
https://youtu.be/7mA0kk29DBA
  • #8,242
  • Aug 13, 2017 5:06am Aug 13, 2017 5:06am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Verv I didn't think the post warranted sarcasm. I didn't say Hitler was a spiffing chap but equally I don't believe he was the monster that convenient history portrays. I have said here already that the jury is out for me and have been trying to read around this subject last couple of months. The point I have made is that the history we can all call upon is what is fed to us and there are other versions of events. I am deeply distrusting of all governments. We are consistently lied to, 911, vaccinations, high profile accidents/suicides,...

Stu, homemade YouTube videos that distort and omit basic historical fact to promote a particular narrative is propaganda. It is not a source to be used as an academic basis for historical enquiry.

You tell me you are doing some historical research, and then you post that crap about Hitler? A video spun with half truths absent of context that relies solely on the word of a lying and manipulative Hitler? That's not research, that's being as gullible as the German people were during WWII. Hopefully that is not an example of the other research you are conducting.

I haven't watched the video about the Jewish woman but I've got a question. Why is it ok to post a video about her lying, but there is no criticism from you about Hitler when he is openly lying? There is some bias there I think you need to contend with - surely I have my own biases too.

If you are genuine about this you should first be familiarising yourself with the accepted version of events and the evidence for it. That accepted version of events has been compiled by mostly competitive historians, not some YouTube quack. So if you are looking to challenge assumptions about the holocaust first become an expert in the current accepted version of events and then look for holes. Some of things regarding the holocaust might not make sense to you because you don't fully understand the source material, it's strengths and weaknesses.

Regarding Hitler, was he pure evil? I'm not sure there is such a thing. Hitler was probably genuine in his desire to improve the lot of the German people. He believed what he was preaching and in the means of achieving that. But that's also what made him so dangerous, he was a sincere fanatic, he considered his vision and his means just. Sincerity is overrated.
  • #8,243
  • Aug 13, 2017 5:52am Aug 13, 2017 5:52am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} I posted a vid last week sometime which highlighted a Jewish lady who has told blatant lies about her time at Auschwitz and even wrote a book about her experiences. Records show she was only there for couple of days and couldn't possibly have had the experiences she claims. There are definite inconsistencies about how the so called extermination camp operated. The official explanations have changed over time too and let's not forget Auschwitz is a business. Even the 6 million figure has been revised. To be so sure and then later revise the...
do you remember Alica Esteve head she clam to be at 9/11 and was just lying it's not proof that 9/11 did not happen it's just proof people are liars
  • #8,244
  • Aug 13, 2017 6:31am Aug 13, 2017 6:31am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} do you remember Alica Esteve head she clam to be at 9/11 and was just lying it's not proof that 9/11 did not happen it's just proof people are liars
No-one is claiming 911 didn't happen Ross. Just asking q's abt the official version of events.
For instance, last time I looked Grenfell Tower is still standing but on 911 3 tower blocks collapsed into their own footprint - how did that happen??
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #8,245
  • Aug 13, 2017 6:44am Aug 13, 2017 6:44am
Quoting verv
{quote} Everyone knows Hitler deeply admired Great Britain, what part of this is new information? He considered the British of the same stock of Germans, again not new information. All sides ran propaganda campaigns, not new. None of this challenges any established facts about WWII or its chronology, instead it chooses just to omit those facts. WWII was started when Germany in a pact with Russia annexed Poland crossing allied red lines. Red lines that Germany thought they could cross without consequences. The video says: - "being unable to land...
Verv'
Have you done much(any) research into WW2 cuz your first statement abt bombing is totally wrong and is obviously a regurgitation of the JSM you, and everyone else has been fed for the last 70 yrs

Churchill started bombing civilians first in Bulgaria and Hitler was only responding, and justifiably so.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/10/...-overy-review/ (https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/10/the-bombing-war-by-richard-overy-review/)
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #8,246
  • Aug 13, 2017 7:13am Aug 13, 2017 7:13am
Quoting Magog
{quote} No-one is claiming 911 didn't happen Ross. Just asking q's abt the official version of events. For instance, last time I looked Grenfell Tower is still standing but on 911 3 tower blocks collapsed into their own footprint - how did that happen??
you are missing my point a Jewish women lies about the Holocaust so you guys jump to the conclusion that your being lie to on a grand scale and maybe the Holocaust was not all as it seems when the far more logical responses is a fantasist is lying for personal gain the Jewish women probably make money and gained sympathy from her lies the odds are it's not part of a elaborate hoax to convince populations of a fake genocide but one women attempts at fame fortune and sympathy women in general love sympathy but when a different women with the some motivations tells a similar style lie you guys just don't pay it any attention because it doesn't fit your idea that something was faked why would governments all over the world have a interest in lying about a genocide? why would historians go along with it? why would ex soldiers go along with it? why would i have gone on a school trip to see a survival of it? why would all these men starve themselves to borderline death to promote this lie? why would all these people get together for such a large scale lie??

Attached Image


are these men the most dedicated method actors in history remember they even got tattoos for this role but the end goal was worth it they helped create Israel come on the Holocaust happen
  • #8,247
  • Aug 13, 2017 7:15am Aug 13, 2017 7:15am
Is this the reason US is targetting NK I wonder?

It is also known that North Korea is in league with some of the Middle East's more unsavory players, all of which want to see I****l annihilated.

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/Default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=31538
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #8,248
  • Aug 13, 2017 7:24am Aug 13, 2017 7:24am
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: political-continuum-1.jpg Size: 30 KB
  • #8,249
  • Edited 11:04am Aug 13, 2017 7:50am | Edited 11:04am
Quoting Magog
{quote} Verv' Have you done much(any) research into WW2 cuz your first statement abt bombing is totally wrong and is obviously a regurgitation of the JSM you, and everyone else has been fed for the last 70 yrs Churchill started bombing civilians first in Bulgaria and Hitler was only responding, and justifiably so. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/10/...-overy-review/ (https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/10/the-bombing-war-by-richard-overy-review/)
Magog, before I posted last night, I also did a simple google search about who started the bombing of civilians to see if there was information that contradicted my own. We learned it was Germany with the blitz, so I made sure to double check that. One of the articles I read last night was that exact same article from the spectator. Question, does that spectator article say precisely where and when Churchill supposedly bombed the civilians? It doesn't. It's vague and suggested it happened sometime during the Battle of France but no specifics. Did you read the article you posted?

The supposed civilian targets are however mentioned in the YouTube video Stu posted. Here Hitler himself identifies the Rhineland and Westphalia (in the Rhineland) as those civilian targets. Again I was under the impression that these were industrialised areas important to the German war machine, so once more I did some quick verification searches. Indeed the Rhineland was the heartland of German industrial production, and the railways lines of Westphalia necessary for the transport of arms, neither are 'civilian targets'? I posted this, you ignored it.

Magog did you watch the video Stu posted?
Did you read the spectator article you posted?
I betting you did neither. I suspect you just found something to confirmed your bias and posted it without reading or fact checking it - just admit it.
  • #8,250
  • Edited 11:08am Aug 13, 2017 8:20am | Edited 11:08am
Quoting Magog
{quote} The reason ppl post vids on here is bc that is the most appropriate way to quickly and succinctly convey information, it is a bit puerile of you to assume that is where Stu does his research. Don't you think the ''accepted version'' of events, written by the victors might be a bit biased. Have you ever asked yourself why it is illegal to even ask q's abt the holohoax. Full disclosure - I AM BIASED, but that don't mean I'm wrong. Maybe I can help your own research with some little known facts that you won't see in JSM 1. The only thing at...
YouTube videos might be easier to get across information, unfortunately it is also a convenient way to spread propaganda that omits key facts or worse flat out lies. It is easy to say something anonymously in a YouTube video, without citation, without any peer review.

Real books, and real historians cannot do that. Historians have to cite primary sources and back up everything they say with actual evidence. They also put real names to their work meaning that they can be held directly accountable for the information they publish. As a result the credibility and quality of the analysis of learned historians is significantly higher than uncited, unchallenged, anonymously posted homemade YouTube videos.

If you want to get serious about learning the history, you need to get serious about how you study history. Unverified anonymously posted homemade YouTube videos doesn't cut it, that is not serious historical research. History books fully referenced by primary sources where the author is accountable is serious body of work. You are not engaged in serious research, you are engaged in mental masturbation.
  • #8,251
  • Aug 13, 2017 8:40am Aug 13, 2017 8:40am
Quoting verv
{quote} YouTube videos might be easier to get across information, unfortunatley it is also a convenient way to spread propaganda that omits key facts or worse flat out lies. It is easy to say something anonymously in a YouTube video, without citation without any peer review. Real books, and real historians cannot do that. Historians have to cite primary sources and back up everything they say with actual evidence. They also put real names to their work meaning that they can be held directly accountable for the information they publish. As a result...
Given the recent new draconian policies that Youtube is now enacting, such as censoring free speech, it has become even more unreliable in telling of facts, but more or less instituting a systematic purge of discarding them all together in an attempt to silence the counter cultures antithesis to the left's dogma narrative of social justice! Oh well enjoyed it while it lasted, but the repercussions for Google and Youtube have yet to play out for having made such decisions! Get your proverbial popcorn ready because it is going to be fun watching what transpires next in the Google saga!
  • #8,252
  • Aug 13, 2017 10:45am Aug 13, 2017 10:45am
Quoting Magog
{quote} What exactly is the point of posting that picture - you are using the same emotional blackmail the JSM uses all the time. The picture is absolutely meaningless without some provenance - who are they, where are they, why are they starving, who took the picture. How do you ''KNOW'' the HH happened???? Try opening ur eyes https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/
sorry who are JSM i'm terrible with acronyms

i am not trying to emotional blackmail you i do not think anyone has a moral duty of sympathy to history or the present time if all people behaved like that we wound still be wiping our ass with leaves but i do trust the allied forces of WW2 not to lie about the Holocaust in terms of making the whole thing up. out of curiosity why wound ex workers of the camps admit to their actions at these camps in modern day Germany when this brings lots of shame on their family and normally a custodial sentence for the individual are these guys also extremely dedicated method actors they don't even tell they family they are on a job they let their family believe they are in jail for participating in a genocide how much are they getting paid and who is paying them?

Q,The picture is absolutely meaningless without some provenance - who are they, where are they, why are they starving, who took the picture.
the same thing can be said about the pictures in the link you gave to me how do we know these women are Jews and these are their babies we can both play this game but am not trying to rewrite history you are so i feel the burden of proof is on you to prove history is just made up

Q,How do you ''KNOW'' the HH happened????
i think it's a pointless lie to making up and to big a lie to keep going all this time it's not something like the Manhattan Project which involved over one hundred thousand people working on it because that only had to be keep secret for a short time and could be morally justified as part of the war effort how would you justified getting a larger number of people to lie forever about the HH

also just to note you have not answered any of my questions from my previous post

why would governments all over the world have a interest in lying about a genocide?
why would historians go along with it?
why would ex soldiers go along with it?
  • #8,253
  • Aug 13, 2017 12:21pm Aug 13, 2017 12:21pm
Quoting verv
{quote} Magog, before I posted last night, I also did a simple google search about who started the bombing of civilians to see if there was information that contradicted my own. We learned it was Germany with the blitz, so I made sure to double check that. One of the articles I read last night was that exact same article from the spectator. Question, does that spectator article say precisely where and when Churchill supposedly bombed the civilians? It doesn't. It's vague and suggested it happened sometime during the Battle of France but no specifics....
You prbly won't believe it but I did both. And I didn't need to fact check it coz I had aready seen(over many years) other docs and research which told me the same things
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #8,254
  • Aug 13, 2017 12:29pm Aug 13, 2017 12:29pm
Quoting verv
{quote} YouTube videos might be easier to get across information, unfortunately it is also a convenient way to spread propaganda that omits key facts or worse flat out lies. It is easy to say something anonymously in a YouTube video, without citation, without any peer review. Real books, and real historians cannot do that. Historians have to cite primary sources and back up everything they say with actual evidence. They also put real names to their work meaning that they can be held directly accountable for the information they publish. As a result...
Why are you focussing on Youtube Nobody is or ever was suggesting these vids are a serious source of info. they are just soundbites and we all need to DYOR.

I have been studying this stuff since before the internet, let alone YT, was even thought of.
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #8,255
  • Aug 13, 2017 12:31pm Aug 13, 2017 12:31pm
Quoting DrManhatten
{quote} Given the recent new draconian policies that Youtube is now enacting, such as censoring free speech, it has become even more unreliable in telling of facts, but more or less instituting a systematic purge of discarding them all together in an attempt to silence the counter cultures antithesis to the left's dogma narrative of social justice! Oh well enjoyed it while it lasted, but the repercussions for Google and Youtube have yet to play out for having made such decisions! Get your proverbial popcorn ready because it is going to be fun watching...
What they also censor, heavily, is anything questioning the HH.
And talking of censorship - bet the last few pages here won't last long.
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #8,256
  • Aug 13, 2017 1:15pm Aug 13, 2017 1:15pm
I actually agree there will never be another Tory govt - Majority Muslims will vote in a Muslim Labour one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hVFYwjEcHo
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #8,257
  • Edited 2:31pm Aug 13, 2017 1:23pm | Edited 2:31pm
Quoting Magog
{quote} You prbly won't believe it but I did both. And I didn't need to fact check it coz I had aready seen(over many years) other docs and research which told me the same things
Rather than posting these documents, you instead posted a flimsy Spectator article which I also happened to find with a one minute google yesterday. If I was to make a claim I would want to back it up strongly.

Quoting Magog
{quote} Why are you focussing on Youtube Nobody is or ever was suggesting these vids are a serious source of info. they are just soundbites and we all need to DYOR. I have been studying this stuff since before the internet, let alone YT, was even thought of.
I don't think my criticisms of some of the content posted is solely of youtube videos. Those same criticisms apply to many of the other fringe websites posted here. Just yesterday I also posted this about disinformation:

"Its tools and channels now include the Internet, social media, and the evolving landscape of professional and amateur journalism and media outlets. We characterize the contemporary Russian model for propaganda as the firehose of falsehood because of two of its distinctive features: high numbers of channels and messages and a shameless willingness to disseminate partial truths or outright fictions."

Another case of selective reading.
  • #8,258
  • Aug 13, 2017 2:02pm Aug 13, 2017 2:02pm
Quoting Magog
{quote} It's pointless arguing with you, your mind is made up and the blinders are well and truly fixed. But I will try to answer your q's re Govts lying - Do you reallly think that after 6yrs of war and the deaths of millions of ppl the govt of any country is gonna admit they got it wrong and apologise - no it's much easier to continue with the lie. There were, however a few brave souls who tried to tell the truth - Patton for instance, famously said that we fought the wrong enemy. Ernst Zundel, David Irving, amongst others also tried to set the...
thanks for the reply if you are proved to be right in the future i will acknowledge i was wrong but with all respect i don't think that will happen hope you had a good weekend mate
  • #8,259
  • Aug 13, 2017 2:08pm Aug 13, 2017 2:08pm
Quoting Ross88
{quote} thanks for the reply if you are proved to be right in the future i will acknowledge i was wrong but with all respect i don't think that will happen hope you had a good weekend mate
One more q 4 u

What happened to the 6 mil bodies
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #8,260
  • Aug 13, 2017 2:09pm Aug 13, 2017 2:09pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaeDYenVrtw
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
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