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"good traders trade, bad traders teach"

  • #161
  • Aug 4, 2017 3:40am Aug 4, 2017 3:40am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} Yeah, I mean can you grasp the irony.. when I focus on making money, I blow the account.. when I focus on losing money.. I just can't blow the account. my previous account lasted 5 months lol
In this case, just make a wish to be poor all your life and here you go - you will stay rich instead!
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #162
  • Aug 4, 2017 3:55am Aug 4, 2017 3:55am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} In this case, just make a wish to be poor all your life and here you go - you will stay rich instead!
We just can't have what we want!
  • #163
  • Edited 7:17am Aug 4, 2017 6:21am | Edited 7:17am
Quoting ezmonyfx
There's a compass fx course that is taught by a great trader and teacher. He trades live for a large firm and explains stuff you'd never get from the average Joe. If you want to be a good trader the best thing to do is find a mentor... Otherwise you'll blow out account after account trying to figure things out. You are trading against hopefully with- the best in the world and they make bad trades all the time. So how do you compete- find good teacher, learn a system and don't stop till you have perfected it. Wash rinse repeat day in day out till...
its very easy. when the teacher was good, you will have extrem big wins or he did tell you you should stop trading and do other things because you are not born for this . if you have now after your teaching very high wins, the lessons was worth it, if not, all you payed and learned was useless.

so its really easy. many never have seen real coaches, only know so simple mans like you told here.

a real coach will tell you in the beginning 2 weeks, if you should learn trading or do differnet thing and stop trading, only 5-10% of the trade because of math knowledge and emotion control and character , rest will destroy their future , they health, their family.......
for the wrong people its one of the hardest lives. you dont will get coaches who tell you, your are to stupid to trade, to bad from charakter, to emotional, dont get the solutions fast enough -- of course not, they get payed for their bullshit, noone is telling you the truth.

a real coach is paying you while you learning. you and most will never meet one maybe, i dont know how to describe it really that you know whats the difference.
a coach is not showing only trading, he is showing how to trade and how to live with it. all payed coaches are useless, you cant see it, because their standard things are impressing to new people, but you will never learn new things (what you cant read in internet).

the real coach you get, when someone is impressed by you or you remember him of his own person in young, this are the real rarely situations you can find someone who really want coaching you. if he takes money, its same like trading with broker who is your counter part for your trades. alway conflict of interests. always. and many know it and still see it. there are no good payed coaches outside, thats the truth. you can believe it or not, it will not change this point.

if you are very new, and dont have the intelligence to read in the internet to find information how to learn trading, then basic coachs may be good, but if you need coaches for this, you have a good chance you are in the 90% of people who should not trade.

sorry for being this honest, but always to hear "this coach is good, or this, only costs this,..." is really like a joke. if it costs its useless. if he dont kick you out after some days when he knows you are not in the 5-10% possible traders, who can live with all, he is bad....... i could write months about this trading topics.
  • #164
  • Edited 10:45pm Aug 4, 2017 1:18pm | Edited 10:45pm
Quoting Winston Reed
There are legitimate traders who teach but there are none here in these infamous threads.
There are exceptions, however rare, to every rule. For example, I know one FF member who 'went commercial' 1-2 years ago. He's an outstanding trader who used to post occasional gems here. His trading paradigm is macroeconomics -> sentiment -> orderflow/market positioning -> execution. In other words, not the usual TA-based material you generally find on forums.

There's another trader who also occasionally posts on FF. He and his business partner trade a predominantly TA-based system, which uses a mix of conventional and proprietary indicators for their setups/entries. They trade other markets in addition to FX, and it's all backed by extensive statistical testing. His partner is perhaps the most consistent money manager that I know. At one point they were also taking on students; I'm not sure if it's still the case.

Outside of FF, I was a student of another fundamental trader and money manager for 2 years, and I learned enough about FA to get value for my subscription. Some of his best performing students get offered positions in his operation, to trade his clients' money.

The trader mentioned by ezmonyfx is outstanding. Coincidentally I discovered him only a short while ago. He's been involved in institutional trading for more than 25 years. Like ezmonyfx says, he teaches institutional methods that are unlikely to be encountered anywhere else.

I won't post any names, as it's against forum rules to recommend vendors outside of the commercial section.

There's no denying that there's a huge amount of snake oil being sold -- caveat emptor -- but there are also a few very successful traders who teach as a sideline. As to their motive for doing so -- why an income from trading alone is not enough -- you'd need to ask them. Perhaps their reasons go beyond the money.
  • #165
  • Aug 4, 2017 2:33pm Aug 4, 2017 2:33pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} There are exceptions, however rare, to every rule. For example, I know one FF member who 'went commercial' 1-2 years ago. He's an outstanding trader who used to post occasional gems here. His trading paradigm is macroeconomics -> sentiment -> orderflow/market positioning -> execution. In other words, not the usual TA-based material you generally find on forums. There's another trader who also occasionally posts on FF. He and his business partner trade a predominantly TA-based system, which uses a mix of conventional and proprietary indicators...

Spot On Buddy.

I was Lucky to have that being under the wings of few good traders years ago.
They don't all do it for money.
I too like most people here, had my ups and downs in this business

One good trader answered me when i asked if he can teach me to make money. and his answer was. You should first learn to stop losing. then we can take care of making profits.
Stop Losing First? Yes LEarn not to lose then pips rain come in

Thats trading
No Holly Grail

Colleges have teachers.
Medical Doctors go to school and learn from a teacher ( we can't say why Medical School Teachers teach instead they can make money as a Drs)
Teachers coaches needed always, cause people die.. knowledge is passed from generation to next.

So all those who argue about why teach forex when you can make money. isn't an argument. cause I know many good traders who went thru life situations like disasters of divorce and ended with no money and started coaching to get back on their feet.
Frank Fadi
  • #166
  • Aug 4, 2017 3:30pm Aug 4, 2017 3:30pm
Teach something especial new is really good for trading. But besides teaching we the traders have to practice to see the performance. I have seen so many traders always teach , but never can profit at all. I think the main reason is not to practice well. I use demo account for practicing my trading and that I have learned.
  • #167
  • Aug 4, 2017 4:05pm Aug 4, 2017 4:05pm
Quoting Chace
{quote} Lol I am asking a serious question as it is boggling my mind. Good mathematicians usually get paid more to teach mathematics than to do mathematics so it's worth their while, where as trading is more worthwhile to do than to teach how to do it - trading is one of the few things that won't pay you more for teaching it since it is easily scale-able if you know how to do it successfully. In other words people get paid to teach all sorts of things, but getting paid to teach how to get paid wouldn't be necessary since they can use their knowledge...
Hi there! Can't agree here with" trading more profitable then teaching " . We live in time where internet is the god. Trading involves higher risk. Even if you good at it still will spend hours in front of computer, loosing tons of hair and nerves. Teaching on other hand risk free. All you do is showing dummies what they should see themselves. Now imagine, how many newbies will subscribe to your bullshit if it looks good? A LOT. No money down, open your blog and you are good to go. Charge $20 a month, get yourself demo account, cut out best trades , post them and voila! Get few thousand subscribers ( which easily can be achieved even here on FF) and you rich. Risk free money!
  • #168
  • Aug 4, 2017 4:11pm Aug 4, 2017 4:11pm
One point to make.
I believe that "No Two Traders Are Alike"
Everyone comes with his own style that devloped from learning and trading

Some pick bad habbits and some pick good ones.
learn from your mistakes
ask, why i lost on this trade?
Where should i enter the next time.

With that being said, the market will do whatever it wants to do. you will take a loss from time to time, and thats where your experience to stop losses comes in handy and saves your account.
its really not about picking tops and bottoms. Ive seen traders here do that with high accuracy, and still fail at executing trades based on their system
heck it happens to me all the time. but i learn from my mistake and adjust my system and try to capture few pips from the range.
Build Confidence first and innovate your system
what is a system. heck i don't know just trade the action untill you have a set of rules that you follow and it become a habbit

Oh By the way, traders don't have to go far to learn trading. FF has all you need to learn. . the issue is that too many threads that don't work vs the tiny few that do which makes it impossible to find the info you need.
with that said. there are many ways to trade. Trade The OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN. LOL
Frank Fadi
  • #169
  • Aug 4, 2017 5:08pm Aug 4, 2017 5:08pm
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} with his very high drawdowns i would not take him as example (you need a lot of luck with this simple trading style) , and trading in bubble markets is something special , you cant find in currencies this way. but if you wait some months, always some with this simple trading style will win big, same time many thousand lose small and big. you can also go to buy in a lottery. finding again some bubbles, where near all share rise and later near all fall (like tech bubble), you can wait many many decades. his normal trading in "normal" times...
Sometimes the simplest of techniques can be the greatest tool for a trader to tackle the market. From my recollection he is a strong advocate of using patterns to trade the market, and focuses on eleven key simple chart patterns (Ascending Triangle, Descending Triangle, Wedge, Flag, Head & Shoulder). He may well have a high draw down, yet he has been successful for more than 20 solid years.

There is nothing revolutionary about his trading style, however, I personally believe a newbie trader should have a mentor to guide them if they struggle to understand the basic concepts of trading. Reading a book and applying the theory are two separate things. But anyone who charges an outrageous amount of money to teach should be completely ignored. If they are not transparent with their returns then most likely they are BS. Nothing in this world is for free, therefore, it's only natural for someone to charge a service fee.

I have never paid for a course, because I prefer observing the market and learning from my own mistakes. However, every human being is different and sometimes a practical approach is more suited to them. Once upon a time I had a huge fascination with indicators especially the Ichimoku system. It took me 6 months to realize how useless it was and I applied every single strategy based on the indicator and even tried to invent some of my own which was a complete failure. Moral of the story is the market is run by crowd psychology and price action is KING if you can learn to master it properly along with a good forecasting technique. There is no such thing as the holy grail, and complicating a system is a recipe for disaster. Its all about the percentage game between your wins and losses.
  • #170
  • Aug 4, 2017 11:18pm Aug 4, 2017 11:18pm
Totally agreed with you, there are many things that could be learnt in many ways in Forex Trading, all you need to have is focus while trading.
  • #171
  • Aug 11, 2017 8:14pm Aug 11, 2017 8:14pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} There are exceptions, however rare, to every rule. For example, I know one FF member who 'went commercial' 1-2 years ago. He's an outstanding trader who used to post occasional gems here. His trading paradigm is macroeconomics -> sentiment -> orderflow/market positioning -> execution. In other words, not the usual TA-based material you generally find on forums. There's another trader who also occasionally posts on FF. He and his business partner trade a predominantly TA-based system, which uses a mix of conventional and proprietary indicators...
Only one thing to say. SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!. There are none here. Zero, Zilch, Nada. LOL. PROVE me wrong. I know. You can't. It's ok. Trade safe brother.
  • #172
  • Edited Aug 12, 2017 1:29am Aug 11, 2017 10:13pm | Edited Aug 12, 2017 1:29am
Quoting Winston Reed
Only one thing to say. SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!. There are none here. Zero, Zilch, Nada. LOL. PROVE me wrong. I know. You can't. It's ok. Trade safe brother.
I assume you're just joking around? But anyway, here are scans of statements from a money manager who's traded a small account for me for 26 out of 26 profitable months. He is one of the four examples that I mentioned above. In the same post there's also a MT4 screenshot of an account that was being run by a student of one of the other four (and who also used to work for a former trading colleague of mine). Perhaps you'll say that these results are faked, or demo, or just plain luck. In which case:

1. Please feel welcome to believe whatever you want; your views make no difference to their performance, or my bottom line.
2. My overriding goal is to improve my own trading, not to prove anything to indefatigable skeptics.
3. If you disbelieve on the basis that your own infallible omniscience ("I know. You can't.") is superior to anything that might be shown you, then obviously no meaningful exchange is possible.

I don't wish to get into a long debate, so this is my last post on this topic.
  • #173
  • Edited 12:22am Aug 12, 2017 12:12am | Edited 12:22am
Quoting hanover
{quote} I assume you're just joking around? But anyway, here are scans of statements from a money manager who's traded a small account for me for 26 out of 26 profitable months. He is one of the four examples that I mentioned above. In the same post there's also a MT4 screenshot of an account that was being run by a student of one of the other four (and who also used to work for a former trading colleague of mine). Perhaps you'll say that these results are faked, or demo, or just plain...
So are you saying that you are actually a profitable/successful trader AND that you are one of the few who also teach others to trade?

GS.

Oops sorry I just read your earlier post and you were saying you knew of someone who used to be a good trader and also teach others to trade but not any more. So the question remains whether you personally trade or teach ?
  • #174
  • Aug 12, 2017 12:35am Aug 12, 2017 12:35am
Quoting genghistar
So are you saying that you are actually a profitable/successful trader AND that you are one of the few who also teach others to trade? GS. Oops sorry I just read your earlier post and you were saying you knew of someone who used to be a good trader and also teach others to trade but not any more. So the question remains whether you personally trade or teach ?
I retired from the corporate IT industry more than a decade ago. I trade as a hobby only. I don't teach. I don't sell anything. More info here.

I know a few successful traders, some of whom manage others' money, and some of whom also sell education as a sideline.
  • #175
  • Aug 12, 2017 12:47am Aug 12, 2017 12:47am
Quoting hanover
{quote} I retired from the corporate IT industry more than a decade ago. I trade as a hobby only. I don't teach. I don't sell anything. More info here. I know a few successful traders, some of whom manage others' money, and some of whom also sell education as a sideline.
So you are retired like me but I was forced to due to health issue. So you don't teach or sell anything except currencies and you also trade as a hobby. But why only hobby unless you are regularly taking loads of money from the market. I really envy you cos I have to work very hard to take any money from the market. Well anyway thank you for you explanation and I wish you can continue to take as much money as you can from the market.

GS
  • #176
  • Aug 12, 2017 2:04am Aug 12, 2017 2:04am
Quoting genghistar
So you are retired like me but I was forced to due to health issue. So you don't teach or sell anything except currencies and you also trade as a hobby. But why only hobby unless you are regularly taking loads of money from the market. I really envy you cos I have to work very hard to take any money from the market.
Sorry to hear about your health issues; I'm on medication for weight, cholesterol and diabetes. Most of my income comes from software royalties and various business investments, NOT trading. Like you, I've found getting consistent profit from retail/amateur trading (i.e. predominantly TA/PA) to be a significant challenge. I spent some time and money being taught FA; I'm currently doing a course on institutional trading, and have learned that these guys view the market using a different set of tools/filters, and trade using VERY different techniques to the average retail trader. I hope to eventually accumulate enough knowledge and confidence to integrate some of their methods into my own trading. I wish you well also.
  • #177
  • Aug 12, 2017 2:19am Aug 12, 2017 2:19am
Quoting hanover
{quote} Sorry to hear about your health issues; I'm on medication for weight, cholesterol and diabetes. Most of my income comes from software royalties and various business investments, NOT trading. Like you, I've found getting consistent profit from retail/amateur trading (i.e. predominantly TA/PA) to be a significant challenge. I spent some time and money being taught FA; I'm currently doing a course on institutional trading, and have learned that these guys view the market using a different set of tools/filters, and trade using VERY different...
Tks your reply and I see you have some medical issue too you have to watch yr diabetes. I am thru my worst already and now living one day at a time and actually enjoying and appreciating it. Actually I only trade E/U cos I find it easiest to trade and profit from it. Wish you good health always and make lots of pips. Cheers.

GS
  • #178
  • Aug 12, 2017 4:27am Aug 12, 2017 4:27am
Quoting Chace
What are the reasons one should pay for a forex course? I'd like some genuine reasons since it makes sense that "good traders trade, bad traders teach"? Obviously if someone teaches for free it is completely different but I'm talking about all these paid courses - what are the reasons that justify making it worth a trader's time to earn money from teaching rather than trading? Your thoughts please! Chace
I think these teachers cannot trade and pretending to be experts and offering courses is their only way of making money.
  • #179
  • Aug 12, 2017 10:49am Aug 12, 2017 10:49am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} Only one thing to say. SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!. There are none here. Zero, Zilch, Nada. LOL. PROVE me wrong. I know. You can't. It's ok. Trade safe brother.
But you do realize that even the best traders don't NEED to show. If they are successful, then they have no reason to doubt themselves, because, who are you to judge them?

Look out, here comes the Arbitrage style...
Its our marathon, baby.
  • #180
  • Aug 12, 2017 12:43pm Aug 12, 2017 12:43pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} I assume you're just joking around? But anyway, here are scans of statements from a money manager who's traded a small account for me for 26 out of 26 profitable months. He is one of the four examples that I mentioned above. In the same post there's also a MT4 screenshot of an account that wahs being run by a student of one of the other four (and who also used to work for a former trading colleague of mine). Perhaps you'll say that these results are faked, or demo, or just...
Perhaps we're not speaking about the same thing. So I'll clarify. This thread makes the assumption that those who teach trading are not able to trade. I agree with this assumption as it relates to FF. In other words I believe with 99.9% assurance that there is no taught trading method, strategy or system here at FF where the teacher can post verifiable consistent profitability for at least 2 to 3 years. I discard the validity of any unverifiable claims of any sort. Without animas I include your claims as unverifiable.

Those seeking a valid trading education here at FF are chasing their tails. Is there a valid trading education beyond these threads. Yes. But they aren't free and they aren't really cheap and they take time.
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