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The Rabbit Hole

  • #6,441
  • Jul 10, 2017 2:35am Jul 10, 2017 2:35am
Quoting jen101
Big lithium batteries burn well. Ask Hammond. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4679416/Electric-car-left-charging-overnight-destroyed-fire.html
As a deceased engineer I have two things to say about this:

1) Mercedes really could do without this sort of exposure. It is a fundamental design flaw to out-source the safety of anything to some external device. What are they thinking? .....oh wait, that's it, they're not.

2) Lithium makes nice fires. This has been known for decades. Airlines and Airfreight companies will not knowingly carry Lithium technology in bulk. There is a UL limit (might be a CAA limit) of IIRC 0.5 grammes on components which contain Lithium energy sources.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #6,442
  • Jul 10, 2017 4:02am Jul 10, 2017 4:02am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} Exactly. Car aircon units don't end up in a ditch somewhere, or more particularly abandoned in a tip where the refrigerant is not recovered. Car air con is (supposed to be) evacuated and the gases recovered before the scrapping process continues. The fridge, by contrast, ends up in a tip and the gases eventually just escape, so the refrigerant was changed to something 'user friendly' .... such as propane (sic)
My local authority been recycling them properly for about 20 years or so they say. There is a separate section for fridges/freezers at the waste centre so presume they do. There is obviously cash involved somewhere ; climate change/ozone.
It appears to be a very common problem that fridges/freezers cause fires. I can only assume the fault can be caused by the compressor over running and increased pressure causes a soldered joint to fracture and the spark from the compressor ignition is sufficient to ignite the returning liquefied gas or the heat from the compressor itself. What is clear the amount involved will quickly burn off but the big issue seems to be the insulation or flammable objects in close proximity catches fire before the fuel source (refrigerant) burns out. So for my friends here make sure you buy a steel/metal backed fridge or a pre 2000 model ! In the vids type 1 refrigerant (freon etc) is pre 2000 ish I think damages the ozone so they say but won't ignite. Like EX says most of our fridges/freezers filled with type 3.

https://youtu.be/Pvko16hqJ7g
https://youtu.be/UrQP24rTIsU
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #6,443
  • Jul 10, 2017 4:07am Jul 10, 2017 4:07am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} As a deceased engineer I have two things to say about this: 1) Mercedes really could do without this sort of exposure. It is a fundamental design flaw to out-source the safety of anything to some external device. What are they thinking? .....oh wait, that's it, they're not. 2) Lithium makes nice fires. This has been known for decades. Airlines and Airfreight companies will not knowingly carry Lithium technology in bulk. There is a UL limit (might be a CAA limit) of IIRC 0.5 grammes on components which contain Lithium energy sources.
So they expect me to buy a car and sit my kids on a big slab of lithium? Um no, I don't think so. I don't think much of Mercs anyway. It's an uncomfortable driving position. Many say the steering wheel is off centre to the driver.
  • #6,444
  • Jul 10, 2017 4:21am Jul 10, 2017 4:21am
Quoting jen101
Big lithium batteries burn well. Ask Hammond. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4679416/Electric-car-left-charging-overnight-destroyed-fire.html
Sounds like an expensive recall coming.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #6,445
  • Edited 5:44am Jul 10, 2017 5:33am | Edited 5:44am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} My local authority been recycling them properly for about 20 years or so they say. There is a separate section for fridges/freezers at the waste centre so presume they do. There is obviously cash involved somewhere ; climate change/ozone. It appears to be a very common problem that fridges/freezers cause fires. I can only assume the fault can be caused by the compressor over running and increased pressure causes a soldered joint to fracture and the spark from the compressor ignition is sufficient to ignite the returning liquefied gas or...
That is horrendous!

Ok, I vote for R1234yf. I just looked it up and it is not much worse than CO2 for climatic effects.

Also the SO has just been forgiven for spending (a few years ago now) an enormous amount of money on a Leibherr fridge ... which has vacuum-metallic insulation panels in the sides and back.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #6,446
  • Jul 10, 2017 5:38am Jul 10, 2017 5:38am
Quoting jen101
{quote} So they expect me to buy a car and sit my kids on a big slab of lithium? Um no, I don't think so. I don't think much of Mercs anyway. It's an uncomfortable driving position. Many say the steering wheel is off centre to the driver.
Jen, you might like one of these (http://www.lexus.com/models/GSF/specifications). They also do a Hybrid version (NiMH batteries not Lithium, I believe) if you prefer to save the planet.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #6,447
  • Jul 10, 2017 6:46am Jul 10, 2017 6:46am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=57&v=AuRS07c9T3Y
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #6,448
  • Jul 10, 2017 8:29am Jul 10, 2017 8:29am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} Jen, you might like one of these (http://www.lexus.com/models/GSF/specifications). They also do a Hybrid version (NiMH batteries not Lithium, I believe) if you prefer to save the planet.
Nah, doesn't mean much to me in imperial, don't really like Lexus and I'm not a tree hugger.
  • #6,449
  • Jul 10, 2017 8:31am Jul 10, 2017 8:31am
Quoting Exodus
Also the SO has just been forgiven for spending (a few years ago now) an enormous amount of money on a Leibherr fridge ... which has vacuum-metallic insulation panels in the sides and back.
You tight arse! I wouldn't allow anyone to tell me what or what not to buy, my money or otherwise.
  • #6,450
  • Edited 8:45am Jul 10, 2017 8:33am | Edited 8:45am
% split of new births is the one to watch ,but I already know you can visualise it
This is how they projected that story
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3163219/Migrant-baby-boom-means-one-four-infants-born-UK-mother-born-overseas-figure-reach-one-three-2021.html

Quoting Magog
{quote} And I figured out how to present in music As I Travel Through My Time Will I Like What I Find What Will It Be Like When I Get Old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvrnXpIBQ1k Maybe then I'll fade away and not have to face the facts It's not easy facing up when the whole world is black to the core Maybe then I'll remember and regret I didn't do more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50u9bxRwBJI
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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On-site guru & also FF member's' psychiatrist, when not drinking tea
  • #6,451
  • Jul 10, 2017 9:40am Jul 10, 2017 9:40am
Quoting Bones
% split of new births is the one to watch ,but I already know you can visualise it This is how they projected that story http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3163219/Migrant-baby-boom-means-one-four-infants-born-UK-mother-born-overseas-figure-reach-one-three-2021.html {quote} {image}
What those charts miss is the quality of the tax base or even if they are tax payers or benefit recipients.
20 million Uber drivers or unemployed Nafris won't contribute much to the exchequer.
The most popular baby's name in UK is now Mohammed.

Btw have you just got a new toy - are u using Data hero or plotly for the charts??

Yeah my new toy, you'll find us in the attic.
Sometimes you make me feel - nothing at all
But what is the cure?
I'm sick of it all, so what can I do?
I get a new toy, to keep my head expanding.
I get a new toy, nothing too demanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpd7ioiRAhg
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #6,452
  • Jul 10, 2017 10:06am Jul 10, 2017 10:06am
Quoting jen101
{quote} You tight arse! I wouldn't allow anyone to tell me what or what not to buy, my money or otherwise.
....a below the belt comment nearly sneaked-out....
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #6,453
  • Jul 10, 2017 10:08am Jul 10, 2017 10:08am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Nah, doesn't mean much to me in imperial, don't really like Lexus and I'm not a tree hugger.
Whaa! 450bhp and isofix!
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #6,454
  • Jul 10, 2017 10:10am Jul 10, 2017 10:10am
Quoting Bones
% split of new births is the one to watch ,but I already know you can visualise it This is how they projected that story http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3163219/Migrant-baby-boom-means-one-four-infants-born-UK-mother-born-overseas-figure-reach-one-three-2021.html {quote} {image}
....there was a significant drop-off in births after the turn of the Century
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #6,455
  • Jul 10, 2017 10:42am Jul 10, 2017 10:42am
Quoting Magog
{quote} The most popular baby's name in UK is now Mohammed.
For non Muslims, the most popular name is Corbyn. I'm serious.
  • #6,456
  • Jul 10, 2017 11:00am Jul 10, 2017 11:00am
Quoting jen101
{quote} For non Muslims, the most popular name is Corbyn. I'm serious.
LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTY
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #6,457
  • Jul 10, 2017 11:01am Jul 10, 2017 11:01am
Looks like Pizzagate been around for a long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrjvifKXQy4
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #6,458
  • Jul 10, 2017 11:03am Jul 10, 2017 11:03am
Quoting jen101
{quote} For non Muslims, the most popular name is Corbyn. I'm serious.
What an affliction, In years to come everyone will know that that child has very stupid parents. How embarrassing
  • #6,459
  • Jul 10, 2017 11:11am Jul 10, 2017 11:11am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} What an affliction, In years to come everyone will know that that child has very stupid parents. How embarrassing
In years to come they might be able to change it to Hasbyn, slightly less embarrassing.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #6,460
  • Jul 10, 2017 11:13am Jul 10, 2017 11:13am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} In years to come they might be able to change it to Hasbyn, slightly less embarrassing.
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